4 ms·

We passed legislation spending a few billion on charging stations and totally failed to get any built.

loeg 2y ago
We passed legislation authorizing spending a few billion ($7.5B, 2021 Infrastructure and Jobs Act), and have deployed a portion of it. Most of the authorized $$$ has not yet been spent; it unlocks over the decade from 2021-2030. One fault of the bill is it depends on states actually doing the work to build these stations; the feds aren't doing it directly. If states drag their feet, stations don't get built.
- jdminhbg 2y ago
  Ok. It's the failure to build that's the issue more than the spending.
  - cyberax 2y ago
    A lot of projects were planned to start this year. It takes a while to get all the surveys and permits.
    - derektank 2y ago
      >It takes a while to get all the surveys and permits. Yes, that's exactly the problem, an over regulated permitting regime. If we are in a climate emergency then we should treat it as such, which means that if the Federal government can't overrule local permitting restrictions, they should prioritize funding to states that are willing to relax permitting requirements and get shovels in the ground.
      - loeg 2y ago
        Feds could/should be reforming NEPA.
      - mburns 2y ago
        > they should prioritize funding to states that are willing to relax permitting requirements and get shovels in the ground. Another comment [0] is lamenting because that is exactly what they did. States could get funding if they built the stations, which includes figuring out any permitting issues. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43263325 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43263325
  - loeg 2y ago
    I don't disagree that it looks unimpressive.
    - rexpop 2y ago
      [flagged]
- jauntywundrkind 2y ago
  The timeline is even longer (and with such good cause). It also took till March 2023 to specify federal requirements for a charger! That's not a bad thing, it's not unreasonable at all. We didn't have any open systems for charging until then! There were no federal standards for what to build or how to stay or fall out of compliance! Before you start paying people to build chargers, you have to have some direction for what to build, have to make it better than the free for all of unreliable chargers that had hindered confidence & adoption so badly! https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/02/28/2023-03500/national-electric-vehicle-infrastructure-standards-and-requirements https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/02/28/2023-03... Folks act so salty about this all, such snark. But in my view so much was smartly done. There's so many layers of problems that needed to be tackled for consumers to actually get success, and it felt like these were gone through slowly carefully over time to make something useful and helpful. For example, the charging standards require a certain amount of availability. Otherwise, folks might build some crappy chargers, not maintain them, and still claim money. Folks have had all kinds of issues with chargers being not in service. Or fully used! One of the big requirements that took a while to hammer out was that chargers neede to live report their status: how many chargers are there, at what power outputs, at this location, and which are in use & what capacity is remaining? So you can get to the charger you are aiming for and have some real hope of charging up! It's been just under two years since the standards got made. They're good, important standards, that insure this money was going to be for public benefit, that it really would tackle the problem. It is unsurprising as hell to me that there's not a ton of deployments yet! For a "hacker news" site, I would expect a more reasonable set of expectations about product development lifecycle. Simply manufacturing compatible chargers is gonna take at least a year, in all probability. Site planning can somewhat happen in parallel, but going through the state to get the fed money is going to be a bit complex, especially at first. This stuff just takes time! The pool of money was mostly unspent, and I expect over time, as roll outs ramped up, the difficulty & costs would have been going down. The political appetite & cycle is so contrary to the actual pace of the world some time. Sometimes we have to be willing to let good things take time to happen. It all felt so with-cause to me.
  - jdminhbg 2y ago
    Ok, but taking two years to come up with a big document of standards while Tesla was able to just do all that by themselves and then build more chargers for less is kind of the issue. I appreciate that it's not easy, but the not-easiness is the problem.
rexpop 2y ago
The National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) Formula Program and the Charging and Fueling Infrastructure (CFI) Discretionary Grant Program have made significant progress in expanding electric vehicle (EV) charging infrastructure across the United States. As of July 2024, eight states had opened their first NEVI-funded stations, totaling 61 ports, and powered thousands of charging sessions. Over the course of the Biden-Harris Administration, the number of publicly available EV chargers more than doubled. With approximately 1,000 new public chargers being added each week, there are over 200,000 publicly available charging ports. It's irritating to see Joe Rogan's moronic talking points repeated uncritically in these hallowed halls. Truly, as Brandolini[0] observed, public discourse is flooded with misinformation faster than we can bail it out. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini%27s_law
- jdminhbg 2y ago
  > Over the course of the Biden-Harris Administration, the number of publicly available EV chargers more than doubled. With approximately 1,000 new public chargers being added each week, there are over 200,000 publicly available charging ports. The trick being played here is counting all charging stations in the US and pretending they're part of the IRA's funding.
  - LooseMarmoset 2y ago
    Yes, that is a neat trick. > As of July 2024, eight states had opened their first NEVI-funded stations, totaling 61 ports, and powered thousands of charging sessions. As of FY 2024, $2.385 billion had been allocated from the funding. For 61 ports across 4 (four) charging locations. $39M PER PORT. This, per NEVI's own numbers: https://driveelectric.gov/files/nevi-annual-report-2023-2024.pdf https://driveelectric.gov/files/nevi-annual-report-2023-2024... I would sure like to see a breakdown in how that 2.3B was spent.
    - Dylan16807 2y ago
      Has it been spent? Allocation is not spending.

loeg 2y ago

We passed legislation authorizing spending a few billion ($7.5B, 2021 Infrastructure and Jobs Act), and have deployed a portion of it. Most of the authorized $$$ has not yet been spent; it unlocks over the decade from 2021-2030. One fault of the bill is it depends on states actually doing the work to build these stations; the feds aren't doing it directly. If states drag their feet, stations don't get built.

jdminhbg 2y ago
Ok. It's the failure to build that's the issue more than the spending.
- cyberax 2y ago
  A lot of projects were planned to start this year. It takes a while to get all the surveys and permits.
  - derektank 2y ago
    >It takes a while to get all the surveys and permits. Yes, that's exactly the problem, an over regulated permitting regime. If we are in a climate emergency then we should treat it as such, which means that if the Federal government can't overrule local permitting restrictions, they should prioritize funding to states that are willing to relax permitting requirements and get shovels in the ground.
    - loeg 2y ago
      Feds could/should be reforming NEPA.
    - mburns 2y ago
      > they should prioritize funding to states that are willing to relax permitting requirements and get shovels in the ground. Another comment [0] is lamenting because that is exactly what they did. States could get funding if they built the stations, which includes figuring out any permitting issues. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43263325 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43263325
- loeg 2y ago
  I don't disagree that it looks unimpressive.
  - rexpop 2y ago
    [flagged]
jauntywundrkind 2y ago
The timeline is even longer (and with such good cause). It also took till March 2023 to specify federal requirements for a charger! That's not a bad thing, it's not unreasonable at all. We didn't have any open systems for charging until then! There were no federal standards for what to build or how to stay or fall out of compliance! Before you start paying people to build chargers, you have to have some direction for what to build, have to make it better than the free for all of unreliable chargers that had hindered confidence & adoption so badly! https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/02/28/2023-03500/national-electric-vehicle-infrastructure-standards-and-requirements https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/02/28/2023-03... Folks act so salty about this all, such snark. But in my view so much was smartly done. There's so many layers of problems that needed to be tackled for consumers to actually get success, and it felt like these were gone through slowly carefully over time to make something useful and helpful. For example, the charging standards require a certain amount of availability. Otherwise, folks might build some crappy chargers, not maintain them, and still claim money. Folks have had all kinds of issues with chargers being not in service. Or fully used! One of the big requirements that took a while to hammer out was that chargers neede to live report their status: how many chargers are there, at what power outputs, at this location, and which are in use & what capacity is remaining? So you can get to the charger you are aiming for and have some real hope of charging up! It's been just under two years since the standards got made. They're good, important standards, that insure this money was going to be for public benefit, that it really would tackle the problem. It is unsurprising as hell to me that there's not a ton of deployments yet! For a "hacker news" site, I would expect a more reasonable set of expectations about product development lifecycle. Simply manufacturing compatible chargers is gonna take at least a year, in all probability. Site planning can somewhat happen in parallel, but going through the state to get the fed money is going to be a bit complex, especially at first. This stuff just takes time! The pool of money was mostly unspent, and I expect over time, as roll outs ramped up, the difficulty & costs would have been going down. The political appetite & cycle is so contrary to the actual pace of the world some time. Sometimes we have to be willing to let good things take time to happen. It all felt so with-cause to me.
- jdminhbg 2y ago
  Ok, but taking two years to come up with a big document of standards while Tesla was able to just do all that by themselves and then build more chargers for less is kind of the issue. I appreciate that it's not easy, but the not-easiness is the problem.

rexpop 2y ago

The National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) Formula Program and the Charging and Fueling Infrastructure (CFI) Discretionary Grant Program have made significant progress in expanding electric vehicle (EV) charging infrastructure across the United States. As of July 2024, eight states had opened their first NEVI-funded stations, totaling 61 ports, and powered thousands of charging sessions. Over the course of the Biden-Harris Administration, the number of publicly available EV chargers more than doubled. With approximately 1,000 new public chargers being added each week, there are over 200,000 publicly available charging ports. It's irritating to see Joe Rogan's moronic talking points repeated uncritically in these hallowed halls. Truly, as Brandolini[0] observed, public discourse is flooded with misinformation faster than we can bail it out. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini%27s_law

jdminhbg 2y ago
> Over the course of the Biden-Harris Administration, the number of publicly available EV chargers more than doubled. With approximately 1,000 new public chargers being added each week, there are over 200,000 publicly available charging ports. The trick being played here is counting all charging stations in the US and pretending they're part of the IRA's funding.
- LooseMarmoset 2y ago
  Yes, that is a neat trick. > As of July 2024, eight states had opened their first NEVI-funded stations, totaling 61 ports, and powered thousands of charging sessions. As of FY 2024, $2.385 billion had been allocated from the funding. For 61 ports across 4 (four) charging locations. $39M PER PORT. This, per NEVI's own numbers: https://driveelectric.gov/files/nevi-annual-report-2023-2024.pdf https://driveelectric.gov/files/nevi-annual-report-2023-2024... I would sure like to see a breakdown in how that 2.3B was spent.
  - Dylan16807 2y ago
    Has it been spent? Allocation is not spending.