9 ms·

Delta Chat – Email Based PGP Encrypted Chat

163 points by rzk 2y ago

alberth 2y ago
Reminds me of Topicbox (by Fastmail). https://www.topicbox.com/ https://www.topicbox.com/
rapnie 2y ago
The landing page may be a bit too minimal in giving overview of this cool project. I really liked the direction towards real-time P2P networking, based on Iroh [0]. See the blog post about this [1]. > After almost two years of collaboration with the wonderful Iroh team, and years of discussions with numerous experts in the decentralization space, we are happy to announce that Delta Chat 1.48 apps on all platforms contain state-of-the-art Peer-to-Peer networking support, including hole punching and forward-secret end-to-end encryption. Concretely, Delta Chat now establishes private Peer-to-Peer gossipping networks between users who start a webxdc app that uses the new joinRealtimeChannel() API. [0] https://iroh.computer/ https://iroh.computer/ [1] https://delta.chat/en/2024-11-20-webxdc-realtime https://delta.chat/en/2024-11-20-webxdc-realtime
- logankeenan 2y ago
  I’ve been experimenting with Iroh over the past month. It’s been such a pleasant experience. Previously, I created a p2p connection with webrtc and had to create a layer on top of that to use request/response style communication between nodes. I can throw that all away with Iroh and focus on the product. It’s a relief.
philips 2y ago
My first question on this sort of thing was how well does it work with GMail. And they have an FAQ entry on it: https://providers.delta.chat/gmail https://providers.delta.chat/gmail
- hobo_mark 2y ago
  Would love to know if someone actually runs it reliably. Especially with a Workspace email address.
- meitham 2y ago
  The whole purpose of using a distributed IM like Delta Chat is to break free from big data leeches like Google. If you're just using Delta Chat with a centralized Gmail server as the backend, doesn’t that defeat the point?
  - em-bee 2y ago
    at one point that used to be how email worked too. for me the point of using deltachat is that it works with my existing service and that it does not depend on any particular company/service. issues with google are secondary. deltachat is still useful even with gmail.
- robjan 2y ago
  I'm pretty sure you would be quickly rate limited, especially if you participate in a few large group chats.
bondant 2y ago
Does it means the delta chat messages appears in the regular mail inbox?
- zevon 2y ago
  It's configurable. As per their FAQ: https://delta.chat/en/help#why-can-i-choose-not-to-watch-the-deltachat-folder https://delta.chat/en/help#why-can-i-choose-not-to-watch-the... https://delta.chat/en/help#why-can-i-choose-to-only-watch-the-deltachat-folder https://delta.chat/en/help#why-can-i-choose-to-only-watch-th...
rahen 2y ago
On the positive side, the use of P2P and IMAP makes censorship difficult, which is a strong advantage in authoritarian regimes. However this comes with serious trade-offs. PGP lacks forward secrecy: if a key leaks, all past messages can be decrypted. Also IMAP offers no metadata privacy, anyone can see who you email and how often. Signal and WhatsApp are likely a step ahead in terms of privacy with their double ratchet encryption (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Ratchet_Algorithm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Ratchet_Algorithm).
- miroljub 2y ago
  > Signal and WhatsApp are likely a step ahead in terms of privacy WhatsApp is closed source, so whatever they claim to can't be proven. And remember that both WhatsApp and Signal are legally required not to disclose to you whether they are spying on you or not.
  - miki123211 2y ago
    > WhatsApp is closed source, so whatever they claim to can't be proven E2E only requires a correctly-designed client, not a correctly-designed server. Since any binary can always be deobfuscated, deliberately putting in a backdoor in the client would be an extremely risky PR move, especially in an app as big as WhatsApp, and one surely receiving lots of attention from security researchers. Not to mention that OpenWhisperSystems (the creators of Signal) worked with Meta on their E2E implementation, and if you don't trust them to do right, you shouldn't trust anybody. Let's face it, people over here just don't like Meta and love to spread FUD about them.
    - miroljub 2y ago
      One trust is lost, it's hard to regain it. The fact is, the WhatsApp client is not open source, there are no reproducible builds, and only thing you have is trust in them. If you live in an authoritarian state with a track record of spying on individual citizens, and without legal protection for the privacy of foreign citizens, it's legitimate to decide not to trust a company like Meta headquartered in the USA.
HelloUsername 2y ago
Previous discussions: 24-jan-2021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25893626 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25893626 148 comments 07-jan-2021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25674894 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25674894 4 commments 27-feb-2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19263357 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19263357 11 comments 21-feb-2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19216827 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19216827 56 comments 03-feb-2017 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13560279 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13560279 1 comment
Mulderns 2y ago
There was a few talks about Delta Chat in FOSDEM'25. Seems it has come a long way since inception. https://fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-5853-delta-chat-from-e-mail-messaging-to-peer-to-peer-realtime-networking/ https://fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-5853-delt... https://fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-5217-chatmail-server-networks-for-anonymous-end-to-end-encrypted-messaging/ https://fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-5217-chat...
miroljub 2y ago
I tried to use it, liked the concept, but the way it handles email is a mess, making it unusable for my use case of trying to use it as an alternative mail client for my normal mail account.
- pedrogpimenta 2y ago
  "I used a hammer to make orange juice and it made a mess! Unusable!"
- n_plus_1_acc 2y ago
  I tried it a couple years ago and it sorted everything neatly into a Deltachat folder. But a friend of mine also complained abut too many mails
  - miroljub 2y ago
    The issue is, if an email is sent to one of my aliases, instead of seeing one conversation between the sender and a recipient (my alias) every message creates a new group chat with the sender, my main account and my alias as members. For every single mail, even when all members are the same, a new group is created. When I reply in that group, then the email will be sent to all group members, including the original sender, and my alias. And sender would always be the main account. This is a known Delta chat issue, but they deem it too niche to consider properly supporting aliases. In an ideal world, when an email arrives, it should create a conversation between a sender and a recipient (alias) without adding a main account as a member. Sending a new message in that conversation will automatically use an alias as a sender. For new chats/conversations, I should be able to choose which alias to use. Then I would be able to use it as a chat UI for my mail messages.
    - em-bee 2y ago
      a long time ago i envisioned that mail clients should really display mails as a conversation just like you describe. a list with all my contacts. and opening the contact gives me all emails received and sent with that contact. if you want to use different aliases in deltachat, i think the best option for now is to create different deltachat profiles for each. you can have multiple profiles active at once and you get notifications for all of them, you only have to switch profiles to see all the messages. switching profiles is a single click and feels like switching folders in traditional mail clients.
bluebarbet 2y ago
Several years ago I tried DeltaChat and it caused an insurmountable problem: my mail provider kept locking me out of my account. Almost certainly it was because DeltaChat's suspiciously ciphertext-filled messages were triggering the abuse lockdown. The provider was GMX and it was their fault, not DeltaChat's. But I had to call off the experiment.
- josephb 2y ago
  > The provider was GMX and it was their fault, not DeltaChat's. Noting that the team have put together "Chatmail" a minimal email suite designed for speed, security and convenience. Also helps with the whole "onboarding to chat" and multiple identities not linked to existing accounts. https://delta.chat/en/chatmail https://delta.chat/en/chatmail There are multiple public servers which may be an option, instead of using an existing email account at provider X.
sras-me 2y ago
In a sensible world, we would be using this, instead of whatsapp. It is amazing that even really a vast majority of, even technical people, not once stopped and looked at whatsapp, and said "Wait, e-mail can do this, we just need a pretty UI".
- mab122 2y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224
- drpossum 2y ago
  To say nothing of the fact that most people are not running their own email servers so that messaging is going to reside in places they don't own and the fact that relays get to read about everything exacerbating that problem, so you cannot really expect forward secrecy: Does this solve all the other problems with encrypted email, which is not widely used for a reason? Here's a discussion https://www.latacora.com/blog/2020/02/19/stop-using-encrypted/ https://www.latacora.com/blog/2020/02/19/stop-using-encrypte...
  - lxgr 2y ago
    > most people are not running their own email servers I honestly don't care about what the people I communicate with do, as long as I have the capability to at least own my persistent identifier (i.e. my TLD). Just having that capability exerts just the right type of pressure on large service providers to maintain a baseline quality of service, regardless of whether the majority actually makes use of it or not, just like phone number portability has done in that domain.
  - em-bee 2y ago
    messaging is going to reside in places they don't own but that is the case with every messenger that stores messages on your behalf. telegram, whatsapp, signal... with those ALL people are not running their own servers. whatsapp and signal store encrypted copies of the messages, and so does deltachat. beyond that each client also stores a copy of each message locally. as does deltachat. in difference to all others at least with deltachat i have a choice to use a different server that i trust. with whatsapp and signal i don't have that choice.
meitham 2y ago
For those unaware, this was created by Holger Krekel, the brain behind pypy and pytest! Another great product.
- Imustaskforhelp 2y ago
  didn't knew that! Even though I am part of this secure messaging group chat on matrix thing and I had even created a whole tierlist of security of protocols etc. and saw delta chat & have it running and fiddled with it. The fact that it is written by creator of pypy is wholesome!!
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
chuckadams 2y ago
Ah the famously friendly UX of PGP combined with the solid reliability of email. This is trying to get two drunks to stand up straight by leaning them against each other.
- lopsidedgrin 2y ago
  > This is trying to get two drunks to stand up straight by leaning them against each other. Thank you for painting this beautiful picture.
- hkt 2y ago
  They've actually cracked PGP, and email is fine, especially between self hosters and anyone using chatmail. I've been using it for years: Delta really, really works.
  - bo1024 2y ago
    Can you clarify "cracked"?
    - pclmulqdq 2y ago
      PGP has been cracked when you use it with automation in that you can steal keys slowly by relying on the meta-behavior of systems around PGP. A classic attack here is timing how long it takes for a PGP-based automated system to reject your messages. PGP is intended for the classic "used by a human to encrypt emails manually" flow and is actually insecure if you automate around it.
      - dingnuts 2y ago
        the timing attack you're describing is extremely common -- not unique to PGP -- and simple to mitigate. do you have more literature about the attack, or attacks, that you're describing?
      - chuckadams 2y ago
        I'm fairly sure they meant "cracked" as slang for "solved", as in "I've cracked the case."
INTPenis 2y ago
I wish I could send a one-time link to my father where we could play chess against each other by re-visiting the same link. The e-mail part made me think of this. I have no use for an e-mail based chat but an online chess game that's easy to use without registration would be cool. He's 82 and he can't use complex sites.
- lxgr 2y ago
  > an online chess game that's easy to use without registration would be cool Lichess lets you play without registration, I believe (or at least one player; not sure if both sides can be anonymous).
  - INTPenis 2y ago
    Lichess was indeed perfect. I was hoping for a self-hosted solution like hedgedoc but lichess does what it needs to.
- em-bee 2y ago
  well then deltachat is exactly what you want because it supports webxdc apps which can run in the deltachat client. here is the chess app: https://webxdc.org/apps/#arcanecircle-chess https://webxdc.org/apps/#arcanecircle-chess
fdb345 2y ago
The most important factor with email, is that your inbox is encrypted at rest at all times... and cannot be bruteforced. The chances of your email messages being 'man in the middled' are almost non-existent. Its a micro-percent of live investigations that does this. The police RELY ON finding messages in either your inbox or the recipients. It doesnt matter if they are encrypted or not in reality. Of course they'd like to read them and if they are this deep into you. Its likely they still will (probably from the recipients lesser password hygiene than yours). Almost no evidence is every 'plucked' out of the air and read. It just doesnt work that way. However, software like Delta is better than nothing esp for normies. Its just limited in use for people who really need ways to frustrate LE. Source: Ive been under NCA and FBI investigation before. Protonmail with the two password method stopped them every time. Memorise the 2nd password and password manager the first.
- tredre3 2y ago
  > Ive been under NCA and FBI investigation before. Protonmail with the two password method stopped them every time. Memorise the 2nd password and password manager the first. Unless you exclusively use proton-bridge and disabled auto-update, then proton controls all endpoints in which your passwords live. So what is preventing the FBI from forcing Proton to serve a special UI just to you that will be used to exfiltrate your second password?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - adiabatichottub 2y ago
    In the US you might be able to argue it amounts to "compelled speech", and is unconstitutional. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple%E2%80%93FBI_encryption_dispute#Legal_arguments https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple%E2%80%93FBI_encryption_d...
  - fdb345 2y ago
    Nothing if I was a tier 1 Russian spy. but Im not.
aslandb 2y ago
would be nice if all the "no, no, this can't work! email is slow! blah blah" guys once and for all actually give it a try to the app and realize IT WORKS AND IT IS BLAZING FAST! I have been using it since years with my family and some friends without any problems, it is the best I could find after trying Matrix, XMPP, etc.

163 points by rzk 2y ago

Reminds me of Topicbox (by Fastmail). https://www.topicbox.com/ https://www.topicbox.com/

The landing page may be a bit too minimal in giving overview of this cool project. I really liked the direction towards real-time P2P networking, based on Iroh [0]. See the blog post about this [1]. > After almost two years of collaboration with the wonderful Iroh team, and years of discussions with numerous experts in the decentralization space, we are happy to announce that Delta Chat 1.48 apps on all platforms contain state-of-the-art Peer-to-Peer networking support, including hole punching and forward-secret end-to-end encryption. Concretely, Delta Chat now establishes private Peer-to-Peer gossipping networks between users who start a webxdc app that uses the new joinRealtimeChannel() API. [0] https://iroh.computer/ https://iroh.computer/ [1] https://delta.chat/en/2024-11-20-webxdc-realtime https://delta.chat/en/2024-11-20-webxdc-realtime

logankeenan 2y ago
I’ve been experimenting with Iroh over the past month. It’s been such a pleasant experience. Previously, I created a p2p connection with webrtc and had to create a layer on top of that to use request/response style communication between nodes. I can throw that all away with Iroh and focus on the product. It’s a relief.

philips 2y ago

My first question on this sort of thing was how well does it work with GMail. And they have an FAQ entry on it: https://providers.delta.chat/gmail https://providers.delta.chat/gmail

hobo_mark 2y ago
Would love to know if someone actually runs it reliably. Especially with a Workspace email address.
meitham 2y ago
The whole purpose of using a distributed IM like Delta Chat is to break free from big data leeches like Google. If you're just using Delta Chat with a centralized Gmail server as the backend, doesn’t that defeat the point?
- em-bee 2y ago
  at one point that used to be how email worked too. for me the point of using deltachat is that it works with my existing service and that it does not depend on any particular company/service. issues with google are secondary. deltachat is still useful even with gmail.
robjan 2y ago
I'm pretty sure you would be quickly rate limited, especially if you participate in a few large group chats.

bondant 2y ago

Does it means the delta chat messages appears in the regular mail inbox?

zevon 2y ago
It's configurable. As per their FAQ: https://delta.chat/en/help#why-can-i-choose-not-to-watch-the-deltachat-folder https://delta.chat/en/help#why-can-i-choose-not-to-watch-the... https://delta.chat/en/help#why-can-i-choose-to-only-watch-the-deltachat-folder https://delta.chat/en/help#why-can-i-choose-to-only-watch-th...

rahen 2y ago

On the positive side, the use of P2P and IMAP makes censorship difficult, which is a strong advantage in authoritarian regimes. However this comes with serious trade-offs. PGP lacks forward secrecy: if a key leaks, all past messages can be decrypted. Also IMAP offers no metadata privacy, anyone can see who you email and how often. Signal and WhatsApp are likely a step ahead in terms of privacy with their double ratchet encryption (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Ratchet_Algorithm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Ratchet_Algorithm).

miroljub 2y ago
> Signal and WhatsApp are likely a step ahead in terms of privacy WhatsApp is closed source, so whatever they claim to can't be proven. And remember that both WhatsApp and Signal are legally required not to disclose to you whether they are spying on you or not.
- miki123211 2y ago
  > WhatsApp is closed source, so whatever they claim to can't be proven E2E only requires a correctly-designed client, not a correctly-designed server. Since any binary can always be deobfuscated, deliberately putting in a backdoor in the client would be an extremely risky PR move, especially in an app as big as WhatsApp, and one surely receiving lots of attention from security researchers. Not to mention that OpenWhisperSystems (the creators of Signal) worked with Meta on their E2E implementation, and if you don't trust them to do right, you shouldn't trust anybody. Let's face it, people over here just don't like Meta and love to spread FUD about them.
  - miroljub 2y ago
    One trust is lost, it's hard to regain it. The fact is, the WhatsApp client is not open source, there are no reproducible builds, and only thing you have is trust in them. If you live in an authoritarian state with a track record of spying on individual citizens, and without legal protection for the privacy of foreign citizens, it's legitimate to decide not to trust a company like Meta headquartered in the USA.

HelloUsername 2y ago

Previous discussions: 24-jan-2021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25893626 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25893626 148 comments 07-jan-2021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25674894 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25674894 4 commments 27-feb-2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19263357 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19263357 11 comments 21-feb-2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19216827 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19216827 56 comments 03-feb-2017 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13560279 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13560279 1 comment

Mulderns 2y ago

There was a few talks about Delta Chat in FOSDEM'25. Seems it has come a long way since inception. https://fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-5853-delta-chat-from-e-mail-messaging-to-peer-to-peer-realtime-networking/ https://fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-5853-delt... https://fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-5217-chatmail-server-networks-for-anonymous-end-to-end-encrypted-messaging/ https://fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-5217-chat...

miroljub 2y ago

I tried to use it, liked the concept, but the way it handles email is a mess, making it unusable for my use case of trying to use it as an alternative mail client for my normal mail account.

pedrogpimenta 2y ago
"I used a hammer to make orange juice and it made a mess! Unusable!"
n_plus_1_acc 2y ago
I tried it a couple years ago and it sorted everything neatly into a Deltachat folder. But a friend of mine also complained abut too many mails
- miroljub 2y ago
  The issue is, if an email is sent to one of my aliases, instead of seeing one conversation between the sender and a recipient (my alias) every message creates a new group chat with the sender, my main account and my alias as members. For every single mail, even when all members are the same, a new group is created. When I reply in that group, then the email will be sent to all group members, including the original sender, and my alias. And sender would always be the main account. This is a known Delta chat issue, but they deem it too niche to consider properly supporting aliases. In an ideal world, when an email arrives, it should create a conversation between a sender and a recipient (alias) without adding a main account as a member. Sending a new message in that conversation will automatically use an alias as a sender. For new chats/conversations, I should be able to choose which alias to use. Then I would be able to use it as a chat UI for my mail messages.
  - em-bee 2y ago
    a long time ago i envisioned that mail clients should really display mails as a conversation just like you describe. a list with all my contacts. and opening the contact gives me all emails received and sent with that contact. if you want to use different aliases in deltachat, i think the best option for now is to create different deltachat profiles for each. you can have multiple profiles active at once and you get notifications for all of them, you only have to switch profiles to see all the messages. switching profiles is a single click and feels like switching folders in traditional mail clients.

bluebarbet 2y ago

Several years ago I tried DeltaChat and it caused an insurmountable problem: my mail provider kept locking me out of my account. Almost certainly it was because DeltaChat's suspiciously ciphertext-filled messages were triggering the abuse lockdown. The provider was GMX and it was their fault, not DeltaChat's. But I had to call off the experiment.

josephb 2y ago
> The provider was GMX and it was their fault, not DeltaChat's. Noting that the team have put together "Chatmail" a minimal email suite designed for speed, security and convenience. Also helps with the whole "onboarding to chat" and multiple identities not linked to existing accounts. https://delta.chat/en/chatmail https://delta.chat/en/chatmail There are multiple public servers which may be an option, instead of using an existing email account at provider X.

sras-me 2y ago

In a sensible world, we would be using this, instead of whatsapp. It is amazing that even really a vast majority of, even technical people, not once stopped and looked at whatsapp, and said "Wait, e-mail can do this, we just need a pretty UI".

mab122 2y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224
drpossum 2y ago
To say nothing of the fact that most people are not running their own email servers so that messaging is going to reside in places they don't own and the fact that relays get to read about everything exacerbating that problem, so you cannot really expect forward secrecy: Does this solve all the other problems with encrypted email, which is not widely used for a reason? Here's a discussion https://www.latacora.com/blog/2020/02/19/stop-using-encrypted/ https://www.latacora.com/blog/2020/02/19/stop-using-encrypte...
- lxgr 2y ago
  > most people are not running their own email servers I honestly don't care about what the people I communicate with do, as long as I have the capability to at least own my persistent identifier (i.e. my TLD). Just having that capability exerts just the right type of pressure on large service providers to maintain a baseline quality of service, regardless of whether the majority actually makes use of it or not, just like phone number portability has done in that domain.
- em-bee 2y ago
  messaging is going to reside in places they don't own but that is the case with every messenger that stores messages on your behalf. telegram, whatsapp, signal... with those ALL people are not running their own servers. whatsapp and signal store encrypted copies of the messages, and so does deltachat. beyond that each client also stores a copy of each message locally. as does deltachat. in difference to all others at least with deltachat i have a choice to use a different server that i trust. with whatsapp and signal i don't have that choice.

meitham 2y ago

For those unaware, this was created by Holger Krekel, the brain behind pypy and pytest! Another great product.

Imustaskforhelp 2y ago
didn't knew that! Even though I am part of this secure messaging group chat on matrix thing and I had even created a whole tierlist of security of protocols etc. and saw delta chat & have it running and fiddled with it. The fact that it is written by creator of pypy is wholesome!!

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

chuckadams 2y ago

Ah the famously friendly UX of PGP combined with the solid reliability of email. This is trying to get two drunks to stand up straight by leaning them against each other.

lopsidedgrin 2y ago
> This is trying to get two drunks to stand up straight by leaning them against each other. Thank you for painting this beautiful picture.
hkt 2y ago
They've actually cracked PGP, and email is fine, especially between self hosters and anyone using chatmail. I've been using it for years: Delta really, really works.
- bo1024 2y ago
  Can you clarify "cracked"?
  - pclmulqdq 2y ago
    PGP has been cracked when you use it with automation in that you can steal keys slowly by relying on the meta-behavior of systems around PGP. A classic attack here is timing how long it takes for a PGP-based automated system to reject your messages. PGP is intended for the classic "used by a human to encrypt emails manually" flow and is actually insecure if you automate around it.
    - dingnuts 2y ago
      the timing attack you're describing is extremely common -- not unique to PGP -- and simple to mitigate. do you have more literature about the attack, or attacks, that you're describing?
    - chuckadams 2y ago
      I'm fairly sure they meant "cracked" as slang for "solved", as in "I've cracked the case."

INTPenis 2y ago

I wish I could send a one-time link to my father where we could play chess against each other by re-visiting the same link. The e-mail part made me think of this. I have no use for an e-mail based chat but an online chess game that's easy to use without registration would be cool. He's 82 and he can't use complex sites.

lxgr 2y ago
> an online chess game that's easy to use without registration would be cool Lichess lets you play without registration, I believe (or at least one player; not sure if both sides can be anonymous).
- INTPenis 2y ago
  Lichess was indeed perfect. I was hoping for a self-hosted solution like hedgedoc but lichess does what it needs to.
em-bee 2y ago
well then deltachat is exactly what you want because it supports webxdc apps which can run in the deltachat client. here is the chess app: https://webxdc.org/apps/#arcanecircle-chess https://webxdc.org/apps/#arcanecircle-chess

fdb345 2y ago

The most important factor with email, is that your inbox is encrypted at rest at all times... and cannot be bruteforced. The chances of your email messages being 'man in the middled' are almost non-existent. Its a micro-percent of live investigations that does this. The police RELY ON finding messages in either your inbox or the recipients. It doesnt matter if they are encrypted or not in reality. Of course they'd like to read them and if they are this deep into you. Its likely they still will (probably from the recipients lesser password hygiene than yours). Almost no evidence is every 'plucked' out of the air and read. It just doesnt work that way. However, software like Delta is better than nothing esp for normies. Its just limited in use for people who really need ways to frustrate LE. Source: Ive been under NCA and FBI investigation before. Protonmail with the two password method stopped them every time. Memorise the 2nd password and password manager the first.

tredre3 2y ago
> Ive been under NCA and FBI investigation before. Protonmail with the two password method stopped them every time. Memorise the 2nd password and password manager the first. Unless you exclusively use proton-bridge and disabled auto-update, then proton controls all endpoints in which your passwords live. So what is preventing the FBI from forcing Proton to serve a special UI just to you that will be used to exfiltrate your second password?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- adiabatichottub 2y ago
  In the US you might be able to argue it amounts to "compelled speech", and is unconstitutional. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple%E2%80%93FBI_encryption_dispute#Legal_arguments https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple%E2%80%93FBI_encryption_d...
- fdb345 2y ago
  Nothing if I was a tier 1 Russian spy. but Im not.

aslandb 2y ago

would be nice if all the "no, no, this can't work! email is slow! blah blah" guys once and for all actually give it a try to the app and realize IT WORKS AND IT IS BLAZING FAST! I have been using it since years with my family and some friends without any problems, it is the best I could find after trying Matrix, XMPP, etc.