7 ms·

I don't understand what makes the US "The Bad Guys" in the same sentence that mentions North Korea and China?

mullingitover 2y ago
In the recent Ukraine vote (condemning the Russian invasion) at the UN the US voted with North Korea and Russia. Even China and Iran didn't vote with Russia on that one, they abstained.
- buzzert 2y ago
  > When it came to the vote, Ukraine’s version passed by 93 votes to 18. The US voted against, alongside Russia, marking a major shift of its position on the conflict and previous votes. > The US version was also adopted (93 in favour, eight against and 73 abstentions), but Member States also voted to add the European Union amendments with 60 in favour, 18 against and 81 abstentions. https://news.un.org/en/story/2025/02/1160456 https://news.un.org/en/story/2025/02/1160456
- almosthere 2y ago
  What is the endgame in that world, keep sending weapons? At some point there won't be anyone left to fight. At some point a concession will need to be made, and those concessions can lead to better times. There is no world where NATO/US invade Russia. That is literally the end of the world.
  - mullingitover 2y ago
    I agree, I think only a tiny number of additional weapons need to be given to Ukraine. Perhaps two dozen Trident missiles equipped with nuclear warheads would be all that's really necessary. Russia is only invading because Ukraine believed it would honor its word in the Budapest Memorandum, which was why it surrendered its key strategic defense. With that agreement breached, Ukraine deserves its deterrents back. I also agree that a concession will need to be made, and I think that's very appropriate. Reparations need to be paid for the war of aggression, and those guilty of war crimes need to be given fair trials by international tribunals.
Mountain_Skies 2y ago
Hysteria, lack of perspective and blood lust.
NicoJuicy 2y ago
Threatening to annex Greenland ( Denmark) Threatening to annex Canada and start a trade war to try to compulse them. Invoking Canadian nationalism instead. Note: he arranged the previous "trade deal" he claims to hate now. Starting a trade war with Mexico, this is actually a source of Fentanyl and I can understand. Camerading with dictators ( Russia), voting the same as them in the UN. Claiming Russia isn't the aggressor ( wtf), even China didn't agree with it. Threatening a country being attacked and bullying it's president. Taking advantage of the situation to bully them for resource extraction. Threatening Europe and stability in Europe: Threatening Germany and interfering publicly with it's elections. Threatening the UK and interfering publicly with it's elections Disrespecting NATO and it's citizens who have died when US invoked article 5 on 9/11 US is getting more and more hate from literally everywhere in a very short time because of Trump. A lot is changing very quickly and it won't take 4 years until Trump is gone. We're 6 weeks in... The entire world is pretty sure that Trump & Vance will take the US in a dictatorship. A lot of this is smoke and mirrors to keep everyone distracted and busy in the mean time ( personal opinion) Pointer: just look at Tesla in Europe. Some countries are reporting a 45% drop in Tesla sales while the EV market expanded 40%... Eg. Tesla sales dropped 70% in Canada in January. 81 % in Australia, 60% in Germany, ... When people will stop US subscriptions ( eg. Netflix) and it's becoming noticable ( eg. Stocks). That will be a point of no return (eg. I think it's already going to be visible from Canada).
- grepexdev 2y ago
  > US is getting more and more hate from literally everywhere in a very short time because of that. A lot is changing very quick and it won't take 4 years until Trump is gone. > The entire world is pretty sure that Trump will take the US in a dictatorship and is going to loosen ties. Do you have a source for this or is it just some vibey rant? That last part seems ridiculous.
  - the_clarence 2y ago
    All of Europe hates the US now. Same with Canada. Just ask any of your foreign friends
kbenson 2y ago
I don't think they were equating the US to North Korea (where is China mentioned?), but saying that since the US can no longer be relies on for protection (instead of the sheriff we're at best the anti-hero that will maybe protect you if there's something in it for us). This means countries need to put up a stronger front themselves since there's no larger stabilizing force to rely on. It's interesting, because I'm sure Trump and Musk take advantage of the benefits that the regulated market provide (even when they just ignore it to their benefit because most others don't), but I'm not sure they've really considered what it means when that stability and security is gone, in more than a "I'm the biggest so I'll be okay" type of sense. There's a lot of positive externalities from that stability that maybe they are discounting too much (such as a relatively peaceful world, since it's been a while since we had a World War).
- cvwright 2y ago
  Agreed that stability is super important. So much so in fact that you’d think more rich countries would help pay to maintain it. But yet here we are…
  - simonh 2y ago
    Bear in mind that after WW2 the US didn’t want European countries arming up too much, and was quite happy to pick up the slack and set the pace. Eisenhower in particular was pretty clear he didn’t want a heavily armed Germany or Italy, for reasons that should be obvious, and was Dubious about France. It was the US that wrote the heavily pacifist Japanese constitution.
  - NicoJuicy 2y ago
    US didn't want other countries to have a large military ( which includes nuclear with a Russian neighbour) power. Germany didn't want that role too, as one of the biggest economies in Europe, because of... History. Germany just enabled 1 trillion in spending for the military. That's historical 1,7 trillion of the Norway fund will be enabled ( partially ofc), that's entire Russia's GDP alone.
osrec 2y ago
Is it not obvious? Unless you're deliberately ignoring world events, what in the last few weeks could make you think they're the good guys?!
bitmasher9 2y ago
I think it’s Eurocentric to imply that China is morally inferior to the US. Yes the United States have more personal liberties, but China has less wealth inequality. While the US is more democratic, we have had many questionable elections in our history. Most notably in favor of the victor, Nixon committed treason by sabotaging peace talks in order to influence the ‘68 election [0]. Giving more recent examples of questionable elections would be too controversial and political for HN. When discussing nuclear proliferation, North Korea is pretty much the worst example and should be mentioned. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/02/us/politics/nixon-tried-to-spoil-johnsons-vietnam-peace-talks-in-68-notes-show.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/02/us/politics/nixon-tried-t...
- makeitdouble 2y ago
  Nitpick: I assume you really meant US centric and not "Eurocentric", as as you point out european countries are more in the middle of it and look at each camps from a distance while being involved with all of them. In practical terms, we can see how Huawei is not banned in the EU, the EU isn't in a tariff war with China either, while it's also not a clear Chinese ally, also having a independant stance from the US in most geopolitical fights.
  - bitmasher9 2y ago
    I actually meant Eurocentric because it emphasizes the values of the renaissance and enlightenment writers of Europe.
- rangestransform 2y ago
  As much progress as china as made, they definitely do not have less wealth inequality than the US. Rural China is still incredibly poor
- nyokodo 2y ago
  > I think it’s Eurocentric to imply that China is morally inferior to the US. Apart from the genocide of the Uighur, the brutal oppression of Tibet, the complete lack of even the pretense of democratic rights, the total lack of freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and on and on. Last I checked not wanting your ethnicity eliminated or brutally repressed isn’t just a European thing.
tehjoker 2y ago
maybe the way we killed 10-20% of North Korea's population for a start https://theintercept.com/2017/05/03/why-do-north-koreans-hate-us-one-reason-they-remember-the-korean-war/ https://theintercept.com/2017/05/03/why-do-north-koreans-hat...

In the recent Ukraine vote (condemning the Russian invasion) at the UN the US voted with North Korea and Russia. Even China and Iran didn't vote with Russia on that one, they abstained.

buzzert 2y ago
> When it came to the vote, Ukraine’s version passed by 93 votes to 18. The US voted against, alongside Russia, marking a major shift of its position on the conflict and previous votes. > The US version was also adopted (93 in favour, eight against and 73 abstentions), but Member States also voted to add the European Union amendments with 60 in favour, 18 against and 81 abstentions. https://news.un.org/en/story/2025/02/1160456 https://news.un.org/en/story/2025/02/1160456
almosthere 2y ago
What is the endgame in that world, keep sending weapons? At some point there won't be anyone left to fight. At some point a concession will need to be made, and those concessions can lead to better times. There is no world where NATO/US invade Russia. That is literally the end of the world.
- mullingitover 2y ago
  I agree, I think only a tiny number of additional weapons need to be given to Ukraine. Perhaps two dozen Trident missiles equipped with nuclear warheads would be all that's really necessary. Russia is only invading because Ukraine believed it would honor its word in the Budapest Memorandum, which was why it surrendered its key strategic defense. With that agreement breached, Ukraine deserves its deterrents back. I also agree that a concession will need to be made, and I think that's very appropriate. Reparations need to be paid for the war of aggression, and those guilty of war crimes need to be given fair trials by international tribunals.

Mountain_Skies 2y ago

Hysteria, lack of perspective and blood lust.

NicoJuicy 2y ago

Threatening to annex Greenland ( Denmark) Threatening to annex Canada and start a trade war to try to compulse them. Invoking Canadian nationalism instead. Note: he arranged the previous "trade deal" he claims to hate now. Starting a trade war with Mexico, this is actually a source of Fentanyl and I can understand. Camerading with dictators ( Russia), voting the same as them in the UN. Claiming Russia isn't the aggressor ( wtf), even China didn't agree with it. Threatening a country being attacked and bullying it's president. Taking advantage of the situation to bully them for resource extraction. Threatening Europe and stability in Europe: Threatening Germany and interfering publicly with it's elections. Threatening the UK and interfering publicly with it's elections Disrespecting NATO and it's citizens who have died when US invoked article 5 on 9/11 US is getting more and more hate from literally everywhere in a very short time because of Trump. A lot is changing very quickly and it won't take 4 years until Trump is gone. We're 6 weeks in... The entire world is pretty sure that Trump & Vance will take the US in a dictatorship. A lot of this is smoke and mirrors to keep everyone distracted and busy in the mean time ( personal opinion) Pointer: just look at Tesla in Europe. Some countries are reporting a 45% drop in Tesla sales while the EV market expanded 40%... Eg. Tesla sales dropped 70% in Canada in January. 81 % in Australia, 60% in Germany, ... When people will stop US subscriptions ( eg. Netflix) and it's becoming noticable ( eg. Stocks). That will be a point of no return (eg. I think it's already going to be visible from Canada).

grepexdev 2y ago
> US is getting more and more hate from literally everywhere in a very short time because of that. A lot is changing very quick and it won't take 4 years until Trump is gone. > The entire world is pretty sure that Trump will take the US in a dictatorship and is going to loosen ties. Do you have a source for this or is it just some vibey rant? That last part seems ridiculous.
- the_clarence 2y ago
  All of Europe hates the US now. Same with Canada. Just ask any of your foreign friends

kbenson 2y ago

I don't think they were equating the US to North Korea (where is China mentioned?), but saying that since the US can no longer be relies on for protection (instead of the sheriff we're at best the anti-hero that will maybe protect you if there's something in it for us). This means countries need to put up a stronger front themselves since there's no larger stabilizing force to rely on. It's interesting, because I'm sure Trump and Musk take advantage of the benefits that the regulated market provide (even when they just ignore it to their benefit because most others don't), but I'm not sure they've really considered what it means when that stability and security is gone, in more than a "I'm the biggest so I'll be okay" type of sense. There's a lot of positive externalities from that stability that maybe they are discounting too much (such as a relatively peaceful world, since it's been a while since we had a World War).

cvwright 2y ago
Agreed that stability is super important. So much so in fact that you’d think more rich countries would help pay to maintain it. But yet here we are…
- simonh 2y ago
  Bear in mind that after WW2 the US didn’t want European countries arming up too much, and was quite happy to pick up the slack and set the pace. Eisenhower in particular was pretty clear he didn’t want a heavily armed Germany or Italy, for reasons that should be obvious, and was Dubious about France. It was the US that wrote the heavily pacifist Japanese constitution.
- NicoJuicy 2y ago
  US didn't want other countries to have a large military ( which includes nuclear with a Russian neighbour) power. Germany didn't want that role too, as one of the biggest economies in Europe, because of... History. Germany just enabled 1 trillion in spending for the military. That's historical 1,7 trillion of the Norway fund will be enabled ( partially ofc), that's entire Russia's GDP alone.

osrec 2y ago

Is it not obvious? Unless you're deliberately ignoring world events, what in the last few weeks could make you think they're the good guys?!

bitmasher9 2y ago

I think it’s Eurocentric to imply that China is morally inferior to the US. Yes the United States have more personal liberties, but China has less wealth inequality. While the US is more democratic, we have had many questionable elections in our history. Most notably in favor of the victor, Nixon committed treason by sabotaging peace talks in order to influence the ‘68 election [0]. Giving more recent examples of questionable elections would be too controversial and political for HN. When discussing nuclear proliferation, North Korea is pretty much the worst example and should be mentioned. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/02/us/politics/nixon-tried-to-spoil-johnsons-vietnam-peace-talks-in-68-notes-show.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/02/us/politics/nixon-tried-t...

makeitdouble 2y ago
Nitpick: I assume you really meant US centric and not "Eurocentric", as as you point out european countries are more in the middle of it and look at each camps from a distance while being involved with all of them. In practical terms, we can see how Huawei is not banned in the EU, the EU isn't in a tariff war with China either, while it's also not a clear Chinese ally, also having a independant stance from the US in most geopolitical fights.
- bitmasher9 2y ago
  I actually meant Eurocentric because it emphasizes the values of the renaissance and enlightenment writers of Europe.
rangestransform 2y ago
As much progress as china as made, they definitely do not have less wealth inequality than the US. Rural China is still incredibly poor
nyokodo 2y ago
> I think it’s Eurocentric to imply that China is morally inferior to the US. Apart from the genocide of the Uighur, the brutal oppression of Tibet, the complete lack of even the pretense of democratic rights, the total lack of freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and on and on. Last I checked not wanting your ethnicity eliminated or brutally repressed isn’t just a European thing.

tehjoker 2y ago

maybe the way we killed 10-20% of North Korea's population for a start https://theintercept.com/2017/05/03/why-do-north-koreans-hate-us-one-reason-they-remember-the-korean-war/ https://theintercept.com/2017/05/03/why-do-north-koreans-hat...