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> Are you sure about that? I mean, didn't Afghanistan forced Russia to retreat in defeat and leave the country? Logistics (Ukraine shares a large border with R

> Are you sure about that? I mean, didn't Afghanistan forced Russia to retreat in defeat and leave the country? Logistics (Ukraine shares a large border with Russia) and people - the people in currently occupied Ukraine aren't as against Russia as those in Afghanistan may be. Even now, we don't really see much of sabotage. > All the more reason to help Ukraine finish the job and force Russia to leave. And how are you going to do that? Russia has been gaining land. Currently, Russia is winning. > Ultimately, worst case scenario Ukraine can simply keep Russian in a war of attrition while eating away at it's economic base. While losing hundred of thousands of young men and decimating their population. Russia has more men. They can stand a war of attrition a lot longer - and they value soldier's lives less than we do in the west. > Russia is already sending it's soldiers with crutches riding donkeys into battle. They are scraping the bottom of the barrel for resources. Similarly, Ukraine is kidnapping people on the streets to send them to the front lines.

Aeolun 2y ago
Collective defense was always an option. It's not like anyone has the appetite for that, but it's not hard as such to kick Russia out of Ukraine.
- ponector 2y ago
  It's not that hard and even no troops required. Send more weapons without restrictions to use them against Russians, tight real sanctions and they will be defeated
  - arandomusername 2y ago
    that's how you get nukes in Cuba
    - collingreen 2y ago
      Let me respond with some equally flippant, reductive text. First, they came for Ukraine and we did nothing...
      - ponector 2y ago
        It's not like that. First russians came for Ichkeria and I did nothing because I'm not a Chechen. Then russians came for Georgia and I did nothing because I'm not a Georgian. Then they came for Ukraine...
- arandomusername 2y ago
  Nope. Majority of Europeans and Americans do not want to go and fight for Ukraine. Especially when there's a thread of nuclear war.
  - motorest 2y ago
    We don't need to fight. We only need to hand over to Ukraine the weapons they have been asking for since 2022. A few Taurus with the gloves off and Ukraine instantly gets far closer to prevent Russia from continuing their whole war effort.
    - arandomusername 2y ago
      > Scholz Says Germans Would Need To Deploy With Taurus Missiles https://www.twz.com/news-features/ukraine-situation-report-scholz-says-germans-would-need-to-deploy-with-taurus-missiles https://www.twz.com/news-features/ukraine-situation-report-s...
ponector 2y ago
> Russia has more men This is true in general. But not true for soldiers. They have more so many men willing to fight in Ukraine. If they have so many men - why the are Korean soldiers fighting for Russia? Or Africans? You simply echo Russia Today narratives.
- arandomusername 2y ago
  and maybe you echo reddit too much, or some biased Ukrainian news site. It is no secret that Russia has more fighting men. It's just logical, since they have a significantly higher population. Ukraine has so many men willing to fight that they have to kidnap them on the streets? There's Korean soldiers fighting in Kursk only, as far as I'm aware. None in Ukraine. It's free man power for Russia. Both sides have merceneries from Africa and South America, among others. https://www.iiss.org/online-analysis/military-balance/2025/02/combat-losses-and-manpower-challenges-underscore-the-importance-of-mass-in-ukraine/ https://www.iiss.org/online-analysis/military-balance/2025/0... > Staffed and decently equipped: Russia’s outlook for 2025 vs > Equipped but not staffed: Ukraine’s challenge for 2025
  - ponector 2y ago
    >Staffed and decently equipped: Russia’s outlook for 2025 Equipped with golf carts, motorcycles and donkeys? Staffed with wounded men. There been many cases when russians force people on crutches advance into meat wave assault. Kidnaping people from streets - that is a Russian narrative as well. Forced mobilization - sure that happens at war. When police arrests someone - do you call it kidnap as well?
    - arandomusername 2y ago
      Do you consider iiss to be an unreliable source? How are Russians gaining territory with gold carts, motorcycles and donkeys? How are those wounded men overwhelming the Ukrainian side? Forcefully taking someone and sending them to the frontline, I consider that kidnapping yes. I believe forced mobilization to be immoral. Can you please provide some reliable source that shows Ukraine having more manpower than Russia?
skissane 2y ago
> And how are you going to do that? Russia has been gaining land. Currently, Russia is winning. Winning, but winning very slowly. Unless Ukraine collapses, Russian victory is likely years away (depending of course on what Russia decides to consider “victory”) Although Ukraine is outnumbered, the fact they are mostly playing defence not offence gives them an advantage If Ukraine drags this out for long enough, there is the possibility Russia may lose its patience with the war before Ukraine does, and Ukraine may suddenly gain the upper hand. If Trump forces Ukraine into a peace deal in which Russia gets most of what it wants, that won’t happen
- arandomusername 2y ago
  Russia controls large portions of Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia, and Kherson Oblasts. I imagine walking away with those areas would be a huge victory for them. How long can Ukraine drag this out? They are suffering manpower issues more than Russia. I don't think it's likely that Russia will lose its patience before Ukraine. I wish, but I don't see it. Their economy is somewhat dependent on their military-industrial complex. Is this the goal? To slowly lose land and lives to Russia, in hopes that they get bored, or that Ukrainians magically get a wonder weapon?
  - skissane 2y ago
    I think the Ukrainian hope is the war eventually becomes so unpopular in Russia that it endangers Putin’s rule. Then political instability strikes Moscow - Putin is removed in a coup or assassinated - and faced with the chaos in Moscow, Russian battlefield morale collapses, frontline troops are withdrawn to Moscow to fight over who is Putin’s successor, etc - suddenly Ukrainian troops massively advance How plausible is that scenario? I don’t know. It isn’t impossible. More likely to happen in a few years time (assuming the war lasts that long). Probably not happening this year, but one never knows - who predicted Prigozhin‘s abortive coup in June 2023? Who knows if or when such an event might happen again - maybe next time more successfully? Trump’s recent moves arguably reduce the odds of such a development by increasing Russian perceptions that the war is likely to be resolved on terms they’ll find favourable. However, Trump is fickle, and it isn’t impossible that with time he’ll move to a position the Russians will find less encouraging (it isn’t guaranteed, of course)
dlahoda 2y ago
> Ukraine is kidnapping people on the streets to send them to the front lines. may you expand on this?
- arandomusername 2y ago
  There are many videos on twitter if you'd like to see recorded examples. But basically, TCC is the recruitment office in Ukraine, and they will pull up in unmarked vans and grab and force them into a van. Here's an article about it: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/11/28/ukrainian-mobilisation-officer-explained-kyiv-war-russia/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/11/28/ukrainian-... A decent video example (ignore the text): https://x.com/East_Calling/status/1896019613198270859 https://x.com/East_Calling/status/1896019613198270859 - there's many more. It's absolutely terrifying for Ukrainian men.
  - rightbyte 2y ago
    It is quite astonishing there isn't more critique of those methods. That in combination with closing the border for men. It is very authoritarian.
    - spaethnl 2y ago
      What you are saying is Russian propaganda. Nearly every country that has been attacked has forced conscription. The US did during WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, and we weren't even attacked in 3 of those. Were we authoritarian then?
      - arandomusername 2y ago
        Calling everything that doesn't paint Ukraine in a good light "Russian propaganda" is tiring. Any forced conscription is immoral. Do you think forcing American men to go and die in Vietnam was morally just?
        mitthrowaway2 2y ago

Aeolun 2y ago

Collective defense was always an option. It's not like anyone has the appetite for that, but it's not hard as such to kick Russia out of Ukraine.

ponector 2y ago
It's not that hard and even no troops required. Send more weapons without restrictions to use them against Russians, tight real sanctions and they will be defeated
- arandomusername 2y ago
  that's how you get nukes in Cuba
  - collingreen 2y ago
    Let me respond with some equally flippant, reductive text. First, they came for Ukraine and we did nothing...
    - ponector 2y ago
      It's not like that. First russians came for Ichkeria and I did nothing because I'm not a Chechen. Then russians came for Georgia and I did nothing because I'm not a Georgian. Then they came for Ukraine...
arandomusername 2y ago
Nope. Majority of Europeans and Americans do not want to go and fight for Ukraine. Especially when there's a thread of nuclear war.
- motorest 2y ago
  We don't need to fight. We only need to hand over to Ukraine the weapons they have been asking for since 2022. A few Taurus with the gloves off and Ukraine instantly gets far closer to prevent Russia from continuing their whole war effort.
  - arandomusername 2y ago
    > Scholz Says Germans Would Need To Deploy With Taurus Missiles https://www.twz.com/news-features/ukraine-situation-report-scholz-says-germans-would-need-to-deploy-with-taurus-missiles https://www.twz.com/news-features/ukraine-situation-report-s...

ponector 2y ago

> Russia has more men This is true in general. But not true for soldiers. They have more so many men willing to fight in Ukraine. If they have so many men - why the are Korean soldiers fighting for Russia? Or Africans? You simply echo Russia Today narratives.

arandomusername 2y ago
and maybe you echo reddit too much, or some biased Ukrainian news site. It is no secret that Russia has more fighting men. It's just logical, since they have a significantly higher population. Ukraine has so many men willing to fight that they have to kidnap them on the streets? There's Korean soldiers fighting in Kursk only, as far as I'm aware. None in Ukraine. It's free man power for Russia. Both sides have merceneries from Africa and South America, among others. https://www.iiss.org/online-analysis/military-balance/2025/02/combat-losses-and-manpower-challenges-underscore-the-importance-of-mass-in-ukraine/ https://www.iiss.org/online-analysis/military-balance/2025/0... > Staffed and decently equipped: Russia’s outlook for 2025 vs > Equipped but not staffed: Ukraine’s challenge for 2025
- ponector 2y ago
  >Staffed and decently equipped: Russia’s outlook for 2025 Equipped with golf carts, motorcycles and donkeys? Staffed with wounded men. There been many cases when russians force people on crutches advance into meat wave assault. Kidnaping people from streets - that is a Russian narrative as well. Forced mobilization - sure that happens at war. When police arrests someone - do you call it kidnap as well?
  - arandomusername 2y ago
    Do you consider iiss to be an unreliable source? How are Russians gaining territory with gold carts, motorcycles and donkeys? How are those wounded men overwhelming the Ukrainian side? Forcefully taking someone and sending them to the frontline, I consider that kidnapping yes. I believe forced mobilization to be immoral. Can you please provide some reliable source that shows Ukraine having more manpower than Russia?

skissane 2y ago

> And how are you going to do that? Russia has been gaining land. Currently, Russia is winning. Winning, but winning very slowly. Unless Ukraine collapses, Russian victory is likely years away (depending of course on what Russia decides to consider “victory”) Although Ukraine is outnumbered, the fact they are mostly playing defence not offence gives them an advantage If Ukraine drags this out for long enough, there is the possibility Russia may lose its patience with the war before Ukraine does, and Ukraine may suddenly gain the upper hand. If Trump forces Ukraine into a peace deal in which Russia gets most of what it wants, that won’t happen

arandomusername 2y ago
Russia controls large portions of Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia, and Kherson Oblasts. I imagine walking away with those areas would be a huge victory for them. How long can Ukraine drag this out? They are suffering manpower issues more than Russia. I don't think it's likely that Russia will lose its patience before Ukraine. I wish, but I don't see it. Their economy is somewhat dependent on their military-industrial complex. Is this the goal? To slowly lose land and lives to Russia, in hopes that they get bored, or that Ukrainians magically get a wonder weapon?
- skissane 2y ago
  I think the Ukrainian hope is the war eventually becomes so unpopular in Russia that it endangers Putin’s rule. Then political instability strikes Moscow - Putin is removed in a coup or assassinated - and faced with the chaos in Moscow, Russian battlefield morale collapses, frontline troops are withdrawn to Moscow to fight over who is Putin’s successor, etc - suddenly Ukrainian troops massively advance How plausible is that scenario? I don’t know. It isn’t impossible. More likely to happen in a few years time (assuming the war lasts that long). Probably not happening this year, but one never knows - who predicted Prigozhin‘s abortive coup in June 2023? Who knows if or when such an event might happen again - maybe next time more successfully? Trump’s recent moves arguably reduce the odds of such a development by increasing Russian perceptions that the war is likely to be resolved on terms they’ll find favourable. However, Trump is fickle, and it isn’t impossible that with time he’ll move to a position the Russians will find less encouraging (it isn’t guaranteed, of course)

dlahoda 2y ago

> Ukraine is kidnapping people on the streets to send them to the front lines. may you expand on this?

arandomusername 2y ago
There are many videos on twitter if you'd like to see recorded examples. But basically, TCC is the recruitment office in Ukraine, and they will pull up in unmarked vans and grab and force them into a van. Here's an article about it: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/11/28/ukrainian-mobilisation-officer-explained-kyiv-war-russia/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/11/28/ukrainian-... A decent video example (ignore the text): https://x.com/East_Calling/status/1896019613198270859 https://x.com/East_Calling/status/1896019613198270859 - there's many more. It's absolutely terrifying for Ukrainian men.
- rightbyte 2y ago
  It is quite astonishing there isn't more critique of those methods. That in combination with closing the border for men. It is very authoritarian.
  - spaethnl 2y ago
    What you are saying is Russian propaganda. Nearly every country that has been attacked has forced conscription. The US did during WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, and we weren't even attacked in 3 of those. Were we authoritarian then?
    - arandomusername 2y ago
      Calling everything that doesn't paint Ukraine in a good light "Russian propaganda" is tiring. Any forced conscription is immoral. Do you think forcing American men to go and die in Vietnam was morally just?
      - mitthrowaway2 2y ago