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I'm asking this because I genuinely don't know, but at what point do Tesla shareholders sue the company? Musk's actions, like them or not, are actively hurting

I'm asking this because I genuinely don't know, but at what point do Tesla shareholders sue the company? Musk's actions, like them or not, are actively hurting the company. There are many people who will never buy a Tesla who otherwise would due to Musk.

gruez 2y ago
>but at what point do Tesla shareholders sue the company? Musk's actions, like them or not, are actively hurting the company. Claiming that an executive breached his fiduciary duty requires clearing a pretty high bar, far higher than "his actions hurt the company". Practically speaking the best recourse tesla shareholders have is to either sell their shares, or launch a proxy fight.
- Eddy_Viscosity2 2y ago
  He relocated to Texas specifically because it was a friendlier judicial environment for him. Even in the incredibly unlikely event this approach worked and the court ruled against him, he'd just relocate to a state that offered him a better deal. There is no accountability in our present system for someone like Elon Musk. Too rich, too connected, too powerful to touch.
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> at what point do Tesla shareholders sue the company? I’m struggling to picture a court of law that could hold Musk accountable right now.
- drannex 2y ago
  European courts could, Latin American as well, possibly Asian for the international markets, which would then be pressure on the American HQ and courts as the international market is, last I checked >50% of their sales. Likely less so now, since they are dropping so heavily in every market (including China, as of this morning, plunging by 49%^1 - China _made_ up ~25% of their sales). ^1 https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/tesla-stock-price-sell-off-china-ev-sales-europe-byd-2025-3?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/tesla-stock-...
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > European courts could, Latin American as well, possibly Asian for the international markets Musk is a de facto head of state (alongside Trump). All but the most independent courts would be under massive political pressure to yield to him. (At least so long as he’s in Trump’s good graces.)
    - AlecSchueler 2y ago
      Political pressure from the US means less and less every day.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > Political pressure from the US means less and less every day Political promises mean less and less. But mistaking promises for pressure is deadly.
        AlecSchueler 2y ago
        What are they gonna do? Introduce tariffs? Annex land from the EU? The US is already a rogue state.
        ben_w 2y ago
        > What are they gonna do? Introduce tariffs? Annex land from the EU? The US is already a rogue state. Tariffs can rise arbitrarily, though beyond a certain point it's meaningless as all the trade is smuggled, nobody bothers any more with doing it legitimately. The Trump administration is currently making threatening noises about annexing land from the EU (and by extension a NATO ally). But it is currently noise, not action, so yes, they may escalate in that way also… or at least they may try to: I have no idea how anyone's military may react to this because the idea of such an act was unthinkable outside of weird dystopian fiction until about January this year.
- freejazz 2y ago
  Literally any of them? I don't even get this comment at all.
ivewonyoung 2y ago
What would be the point of suing rather than trying to vote him out and/or selling the stock since it appears majority stockholders want him on board?
dragontamer 2y ago
Maybe don't buy companies where the largest shareholder (Musk) has a loyal board of directors who consistently elect Musk to be CEO. Sell your shares. Buy a better company, one with less corruption.
- ZeroGravitas 2y ago
  The G in ESG stands for governance. A couple of years ago it was a meme to ask why Tesla got poor ESG scores compared with random fossil fuel producers. Part of the answer was the Governance of Tesla being really bad. Another part was Musk just refusing to file the paperwork to get a decent score. Which he wouldn't get away with if the governance was better.
jaredklewis 2y ago
Yes, in theory basically anything could be securities fraud, and lots of lawsuits like that get filed. Very few succeed. If shareholders are serious about dumping Musk they can put in board members to sack him and get a new CEO. If they just want a lot of performative legal actions, yea sure file a lawsuit.
Reubachi 2y ago
a few thoughts, 1) This is not how investing or investor-board-company process works in modern trading/investing. this is capitalism, not ethical discourse. Past performance is not a guarantor on investment, and you are free to rescind that investment. 2) if one desired to keep their investments in the company they disagree with performance/ethics wise, there is a board that dictates investor funds, trends. They are elected. In the event of some perceived strife, or new initiative, a board is petitioned by shareholder groups to a point that if there is enough sway, can force a decision on the company. I do not agree this is ideal^ as dark forces in the market have far more of an effect on it than the actual investments.
hn1986 2y ago
Betting market for Musk staying CEO. https://kalshi.com/markets/kxteslaceochange/new-tesla-ceo https://kalshi.com/markets/kxteslaceochange/new-tesla-ceo gives you an idea - 27% chance being removed before 2027
filoleg 2y ago
> At what point? Definitely not at the point when they have a car model that is leading in top 5 most purchased new vehicles (not just EVs, we are talking overall) in multiple large markets like EU or US. Which was the case for 2024.
cameldrv 2y ago
Musk's politics certainly play a part in this, but the bigger story is that Chinese EVs are starting to dominate the Australian market. They're far cheaper at a comparable quality level.

gruez 2y ago

>but at what point do Tesla shareholders sue the company? Musk's actions, like them or not, are actively hurting the company. Claiming that an executive breached his fiduciary duty requires clearing a pretty high bar, far higher than "his actions hurt the company". Practically speaking the best recourse tesla shareholders have is to either sell their shares, or launch a proxy fight.

Eddy_Viscosity2 2y ago
He relocated to Texas specifically because it was a friendlier judicial environment for him. Even in the incredibly unlikely event this approach worked and the court ruled against him, he'd just relocate to a state that offered him a better deal. There is no accountability in our present system for someone like Elon Musk. Too rich, too connected, too powerful to touch.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> at what point do Tesla shareholders sue the company? I’m struggling to picture a court of law that could hold Musk accountable right now.

drannex 2y ago
European courts could, Latin American as well, possibly Asian for the international markets, which would then be pressure on the American HQ and courts as the international market is, last I checked >50% of their sales. Likely less so now, since they are dropping so heavily in every market (including China, as of this morning, plunging by 49%^1 - China _made_ up ~25% of their sales). ^1 https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/tesla-stock-price-sell-off-china-ev-sales-europe-byd-2025-3?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/tesla-stock-...
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > European courts could, Latin American as well, possibly Asian for the international markets Musk is a de facto head of state (alongside Trump). All but the most independent courts would be under massive political pressure to yield to him. (At least so long as he’s in Trump’s good graces.)
  - AlecSchueler 2y ago
    Political pressure from the US means less and less every day.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > Political pressure from the US means less and less every day Political promises mean less and less. But mistaking promises for pressure is deadly.
      - AlecSchueler 2y ago
        What are they gonna do? Introduce tariffs? Annex land from the EU? The US is already a rogue state.
        ben_w 2y ago
        > What are they gonna do? Introduce tariffs? Annex land from the EU? The US is already a rogue state. Tariffs can rise arbitrarily, though beyond a certain point it's meaningless as all the trade is smuggled, nobody bothers any more with doing it legitimately. The Trump administration is currently making threatening noises about annexing land from the EU (and by extension a NATO ally). But it is currently noise, not action, so yes, they may escalate in that way also… or at least they may try to: I have no idea how anyone's military may react to this because the idea of such an act was unthinkable outside of weird dystopian fiction until about January this year.
freejazz 2y ago
Literally any of them? I don't even get this comment at all.

ivewonyoung 2y ago

What would be the point of suing rather than trying to vote him out and/or selling the stock since it appears majority stockholders want him on board?

dragontamer 2y ago

Maybe don't buy companies where the largest shareholder (Musk) has a loyal board of directors who consistently elect Musk to be CEO. Sell your shares. Buy a better company, one with less corruption.

ZeroGravitas 2y ago
The G in ESG stands for governance. A couple of years ago it was a meme to ask why Tesla got poor ESG scores compared with random fossil fuel producers. Part of the answer was the Governance of Tesla being really bad. Another part was Musk just refusing to file the paperwork to get a decent score. Which he wouldn't get away with if the governance was better.

jaredklewis 2y ago

Yes, in theory basically anything could be securities fraud, and lots of lawsuits like that get filed. Very few succeed. If shareholders are serious about dumping Musk they can put in board members to sack him and get a new CEO. If they just want a lot of performative legal actions, yea sure file a lawsuit.

Reubachi 2y ago

a few thoughts, 1) This is not how investing or investor-board-company process works in modern trading/investing. this is capitalism, not ethical discourse. Past performance is not a guarantor on investment, and you are free to rescind that investment. 2) if one desired to keep their investments in the company they disagree with performance/ethics wise, there is a board that dictates investor funds, trends. They are elected. In the event of some perceived strife, or new initiative, a board is petitioned by shareholder groups to a point that if there is enough sway, can force a decision on the company. I do not agree this is ideal^ as dark forces in the market have far more of an effect on it than the actual investments.

hn1986 2y ago

Betting market for Musk staying CEO. https://kalshi.com/markets/kxteslaceochange/new-tesla-ceo https://kalshi.com/markets/kxteslaceochange/new-tesla-ceo gives you an idea - 27% chance being removed before 2027

filoleg 2y ago

> At what point? Definitely not at the point when they have a car model that is leading in top 5 most purchased new vehicles (not just EVs, we are talking overall) in multiple large markets like EU or US. Which was the case for 2024.

cameldrv 2y ago

Musk's politics certainly play a part in this, but the bigger story is that Chinese EVs are starting to dominate the Australian market. They're far cheaper at a comparable quality level.