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DiffRhythm: Fast End-to-End Full-Length Song Generation with Latent Diffusion
- fabiofzero 2y agoBusiness hates creatives. They'll do anything to automate us away.
- foxbarrington 2y agoBusiness doesn’t hate creatives, and is not specifically targeting creatives to automate them away. Any job that can be done as good for a lower price or better for the same price is going to be a target.
- kelseyfrog 2y agoAnd let's be honest, the reason it can be done for a lower price is because the public doesn't have taste.
- idolofdust 2y agoThe stage has been set with the mass proliferation "lofi" and "chill" music that has been all but AI automated.
- whyowhy3484939 2y agoThat's right, they don't just hate creatives. They'll go after anyone. I wonder what the hyper-capitalist's end game looks like. One giant company that covers everything with one man sitting at a dashboard, tweaking parameters? Is that one man even necessary? I wonder what our plans are for when "the economy" prefers to do it's thing without us. Writing poems all day? What capitalist instrument will provide "money" for us to spend in this giant machine?
- 52-6F-62 2y agoThere’s only one way to win in a game theory world and that’s to be on top at the end. So where is it going? Why: the end. But this is also where Gandolf says, “end?”
- oortoo 2y agoI don't think its at all extremist to look at that picture, realize it won't really have made any sense for the majority of the people on the planet well before it gets to that point, and that consequently some type of major global revolution will prevent that from happening.
- jimbokun 2y ago> One giant company that covers everything with one man sitting at a dashboard, tweaking parameters? Is that one man even necessary? Old joke about airplane automation: In the future there will be just one pilot and a dog in the cockpit. The dog is there to bite the pilot if he touches anything.
- onlyrealcuzzo 2y agoPut another way, they hate costs, and all of us are costs :)
- VincentEvans 2y agoWhats the end game here? Let’s follow the AI and automation craze to its eventual conclusion - automations everywhere, humans are either employed in automation industry, or are unemployed at a massive scale. Stable jobs are replaced by ever-optimized gig economy for some, and chronic poverty for others. For there to even be economy - the massive underemployed population subsists on government welfare. Cynic in me thinks that all of the wealth generated by enormous productivity gains resulting from automation will not find its way towards population displaced by it. Those cashiers, toll booth, and warehouse workers did not find themselves in much more lucrative careers - I don’t see why it will be any different for truck and cab drivers who will be joining them in the near future. If you see a future where these people who suddenly found all this extra leisure time o. Their hands and no income - are somehow blossoming in creative directions and realizing their own potential - I’d like to have it painted for me, as it all looks pretty bleak to me. Just not quiet sure of the timeline. Best I can come up with is an emergence of some kind of counter-cultural protest market where people buy and sell “made by humans” products, and are continuously attacked by various regulations originating from mega corporations who captured the government.
- onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago> Cynic in me thinks that all of the wealth generated by enormous productivity gains resulting from automation will not find its way towards population displaced by it. Empirically, that's not true. Unemployment was at an all-time low after most of those jobs were eliminated, and wages after adjusting for inflation continued to rise in real terms.
- VincentEvans 2y agoI am inclined to doubt the sources of these empirical observations. Statistics are funny like that, “average patient temperature in the hospital” effect and frequent inability to correctly attribute confounding factors outside of observed window. Equally bad is anecdotal evidence, but I’ll drop some anyway. For a while now I am observing a crisis thats, admittedly subjectively, easy to see - but is somehow absent in those empirical sources citing economic accomplishments. An indirect evidence of what I am talking about - is crushing defeat of democrats/establishment in last election, following among other reasons, quite a backlash for boasting about said accomplishments. But rather than picking issue with one of my points - I still would like someone to describe the counterpoint to my dystopian expectations - where, for example, would all those professional drivers I mentioned earlier go? Ps. Oh speaking of statistics - remember Greenspan’s “there’s no real estate bubble, there’s froth in individual markets” right before 2008 financial crisis? It be funny like that, sometimes much derided common sense is all you need /shrug.
- jimbokun 2y ago> Any job that can be done as good for a lower price or better for the same price is going to be a target. So they just hate humanity in general then.
- treyd 2y agoYes, this has always been the case. This is why capital holders are actively hostile to labor organizing and tend to back fascism when liberalism falls into crisis.
- MattPalmer1086 2y agoThey don't hate at all. They are just maximising profit (which they have an obligation to do). If they didn't replace you with more efficient things, they would be outcompeted and die. So, feel free to criticise capitalism and how inhumane it is, but don't anthropomorphise it by ascribing human emotions to the system.
- perching_aix 2y agoIf I was a business I'd "hate" creatives too, and I'd also want to automate them away. The costs of producing (truly) creative works is utterly bonkers, and so are the risks associated.
- chefandy 2y agoThat's why corporations that have made creative products have traditionally never gone anywhere. They all just went out of business. And all the artists got rich.
- perching_aix 2y ago?? How do you think what you say follows from what I said?
- chefandy 2y agoYou don’t understand how the ‘bonkers’ cost of creative worker relates to businesses that make creative products?
- perching_aix 2y agoNo, I only understand that you're doing your best to be hostile and strawman me. So please, do kindly explain.
- chefandy 2y agoI’ll get right on that
- perching_aix 2y agoAny progress?
- behnamoh 2y agowhatever can be automated isn't "true" creativity. these models merely generate an average music, but the outputs of creative musicians always stand out.
- bedane 2y agothe "prompt" is the 10 seconds original audio file + the lyrics, right? absolutely crazy
- SubiculumCode 2y agoIf I am to retain any interest as an amateur music writer without proaudio engineering skills and equipment, but with a day job, , I want tools that help me enact MY vision to reality. That means multi tracking, ability to hum or score a melody and have it transfer to musical instrument, ability to enter existing tracks, provide a temporal segment for diffusion, and ask it to 'generate a counterpoint to the melody with strings, etc. The most exciting possibilities of this is enabling talented writers with day jobs, not one click song writing.
- soperj 2y agoI'd be surprised if the people who are writing these understand what this means.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- SubiculumCode 2y agoYeah, I'd think that it will take commoditized generation tools that existing or new composition multi-tracking tools could incorporate. i.e. FLStudio plugin
- naltroc 2y agoWhat does the ideal VST(s) look like for you? How would you like it to be broken down? For example, I tend to think of "composition" and "synthesis" as two very different topics. One VST could spit out chords or melodies (not a common VST) whereas another could render those sounds (very common VST)
- naltroc 2y agoThe request is valid; you just need the right tools for the job. Story Jam lets you design chord progressions without needing to know about music theory, instead offering intuitive terms like "lightness", "darkness", "drifting" and "roaming". They mean about what you think they mean. https://storyjam.tenpens.ink https://storyjam.tenpens.ink I'm planning a "Show HN" post for tomorrow morning EST with more details. But you can get the sneak peek here :)
- jnwatson 2y agoThe style matching is interesting, but there's no song structure. There's no identifiable chorus in any of the demo songs.
- qoez 2y agoThat can probably be a style in itself (if we kept exploring in these directions)
- 6stringmerc 2y agoNo, it’s not a style, it’s by definition an incomplete song.
- qoez 2y ago"Electronic music aren't real songs there's no real instruments involved". Let's be a bit creative with these tools. Sure the pure output isn't always plesant or listenable but there's probably an interesting genre to carve out here
- impossiblefork 2y agoI find this very surprising, because it's one of things I'd have expected a diffusion model to have a chance of achieving. I suppose it might be because it's latent diffusion.
- vessenes 2y agoThis is primarily architecturally interesting in my opinion. Output songs have unusual noticeable artifacts, and I would guess they become more noticeable the more you listen. That said, wow. An end to end FAST architecture that can infer a 4.5 minute song in 10 seconds is a compelling thing. I didn’t see if we got open weights, but my guess is that this is not crazy challenging to train, and some v2/v3 versions of this are likely to be good-to-very-good.
- rtkwe 2y agoThe huge missing issue is direction. Songs are way more than just a 10 second style reference and lyrics. Even the most generic pop song from the 90s had recognizable choruses some repeated bars and some ebb and flow to the song that connected to the lyrics to make it interesting to the human ear. Right now the generated songs, as you noted, somewhat glitchy lyrics over a bland backing track that just sort of goes at one speed and note for the whole of the lyrics.
- 52-6F-62 2y ago[flagged]
- Fucole 2y ago[dead]
- jimbokun 2y ago[flagged]
- behnamoh 2y agobecause copyright? these AI tools are great for adding a music to your YT video w/o worrying about violating copyright.
- rtkwe 2y agoThere's already a huge library of royalty free music available and even just AIing some music up doesn't fully protect you from strikes if it hallucinates something close enough to an existing song.
- behnamoh 2y agobut these AI tools let you customize the music according to your needs.
- rtkwe 2y agoHow much direction can you actually give them? Doesn't seem like much you could actually tweak beyond the short style queue and lyrics. To really be customizable you'd need a method to tweak the generation to inform the tone, inflection, and flow of the music at any given point to satisfy what you wanted to pair it with. Songs have lulls and swells to go with the tone and emotion you're trying to create/communicate these are just strings of lyrics over boring barely connecting backing tracks.
- ravi-delia 2y agoThis is why we never should have invented the phonograph. People who want to listen to music can just buy a record, making it literally impossible for them to perform an activity humans ENJOY doing. Without it everyone would surely be making all their own music, and nothing valuable would be lost
- ramesh31 2y agoNone of this is music. It is noise that sounds likes music. Pretty analogous to how AI slop is not information, but just words that are arranged to look like information.
- rtkwe 2y agoMakes me think of the demons from Frieren who are monsters that have learned to speak and act human to hunt people better.
- 6stringmerc 2y agoIt’s just combining sample WAV files without human coordination, talk about a lame-ass achievement. It’s already easy enough to set BPM and load in files in Ableton and warp them into unison, from what I heard this is basically just that with”HOORAY FOR AI” slathered as a veneer on top. If you think I’m being harsh, I have my reasons as a professional musician to critique these things in an unflattering light because they are my competition. Thankfully actually “generated” AI music is trash. Copyright is problematic in the US, I admit, but tech bros using copyrighted material to train programs to put us out of business - without paying a penny which even Spotify doesn’t per stream - yeah, I’ll have some disdain about this scenario and I feel it’s justified. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.
- chefandy 2y agoSorry no. Here on HN, your having a vested interest in some market makes your opinion entirely invalid. That is, enless you're interested in one of the correct markets such as software or AI services.
- 01100011 2y agoCool. Obviously needs some work. Lots of artifacts. Something to build on though. Lots of sour grapes comments from folks. Too bad. Not what I expect out of Hacker News. Glad people are pushing the technological envelope and exploring this space despite the strong negative emotions.
- chefandy 2y ago[flagged]
- 01100011 2y agoIt's fine that you don't like it. It's odd that it's such a popular opinion on a site frequented by "hackers" and "disruptors". Why is this opinion more prevalent on posts for synthetic music generation and not other synthetic output? Why does synthetic music generation stop you from making music the old way? Are you upset that a business model that is already dead will be pushed further into irrelevance?
- dang 2y agoCan you please make your substantive points without snark or fulmination? We're really trying for something else here. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
- chefandy 2y agoI get it, but the anguish of people who were paid dramatically less and treated dramatically worse than software developers whose livelihoods are being deliberately harpooned by the software business is not "sour grapes." I'd expect the software culture to be tolerant of the upper class being being indifferent to that anguish, but I see people around here all but dancing on their graves with no real push back. I think y'all generally do a good job with this place but frankly, the utter lack of consideration for the people most affected while being quick to make sure they don't get too touchy about it says everything there is to know about SV culture: all the talk of ethics and fairness get thrown right out the window the second they start to conflict with the bottom line. Fortunately American culture on a whole seems to be following suit so at least it won't seem weird. I don't think I can even passively participate in this culture anymore. I bid you well.
- dimatura 2y agoOne thing that strikes me about almost every AI-generated track (from academic or commercial generators), is that even if it's often "competent" - in that it has reasonable melodies, chord progressions, etc - is how average it is. Mediocre, taking the term literally. In a way that also highlights cliches and crutches that are common in human-made music. Somewhat reminiscent of GPT text that drones on and on in a grammatically correct way but conveys little of interest. This is of course not unexpected, given how these models are trained. I wonder if this will have an effect of pushing (human) musicians to be more experimental - to move away from the conventions that are now just a click away for anyone.
- chefandy 2y agoYeah-- in a professional workflow, at best, these tools are for getting ideas rather than creating output that will be used directly. Lots of folks use them for actual creation because they're just so enamored with the ability to create vaguely technically competent output from text, but they're all pretty much a bee-line to mediocre, and overcoming mediocrity is absolutely the most difficult part of working with AI output. The same is true with text, as you mentioned, and image generators. As Charles Eames said, "The details are not the details. They make the design." Well, these tools suck with details, and details convey character, perspective, message, meaning, etc. Surely the tooling will improve this in years to come, but it certainly hasn't yet.
- ziofill 2y agoGoodness, the music that is produced has almost no discernible time signature. I don't know if my brain is faulty, but I find it extremely annoying to listen to.
- relaxing 2y agoIt’s AI slop, that’s expected. “Pop punk with prog rock time signatures“ is a funny idea, but it’s not interesting to listen to when there’s obviously zero intention behind it.