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They just want the US to keep their word on promises already made. Is that so unreasonable? They gave up their nukes for it.

rayiner 2y ago
You’re saying we already gave them the equivalent of NATO Article 5?
- spiderfarmer 2y ago
  Not equivalent, but the USA is in violation as of today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    The USA is not in violation of that. All of points 1-6 have been complied with. Russia is in clear violation of it, but it never promised US military intervention. All it promises is we'd go to the Security Council about it. The memorandum didn't really anticipate one of the signatories with a UN veto being the aggressor.
    - spectra72 2y ago
      The UK, France and China also signed that same agreement.
      - ceejayoz 2y ago
        France and China signed separate, individual agreements. The UK and France have clearly followed (and exceeded, via direct military aid it does not require) the requirements of the memorandum. I can't find the text of China's agreement.
        spectra72 2y ago
        As has the US with all of their aid. Yet, the US is the one that is forever chided for being negligent to the terms of the agreement.
        ceejayoz 2y ago
        > As has the US with all of their aid. As I've noted upthread. > Yet, the US is the one that is forever chided for being negligent to the terms of the agreement. The US has absolutely complied with the Budapest Memorandum's requirements. Military aid isn't required, it's just a good idea. The recent withdrawal of aid is a betrayal of an ally, but not a violation of the Memorandum.
kelipso 2y ago
The nukes were never under Ukraine control or possession. It's like saying Turkey has nukes, they don't, they are US nukes.
- libertine 2y ago
  Here comes the Russian propaganda... The nukes belonged to Ukraine. Just like Belarus nukes belonged to them. What is said by Russian propagandists is that Ukraine didn't have the launch codes - like it was some magical barrier that would prevent Ukraine from deploying the nukes if they wanted to. Like Ukrainian scientists didn't play a major a role in USSR nuclear development, and didn't have the know how to just use other system to deploy the nukes. It's part of the Russian propaganda to make Ukrainians into incompetent inferior ethnic group - why do you think they address them by derogatory ethnic slurs like "little Russians"?
  - kelipso 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - libertine 2y ago
      You're in the wrong place to spread Russia propaganda, here we go: > After its dissolution in 1991, Ukraine became the third largest nuclear power in the world and held about one third of the former Soviet nuclear weapons, delivery system, and significant knowledge of its design and production. Ukraine inherited about 130 UR-100N intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBM) with six warheads each, 46 RT-23 Molodets ICBMs with ten warheads apiece, as well as 33 heavy bombers, totaling approximately 1,700 nuclear warheads that remained on Ukrainian territory.[0] [0]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_and_weapons_of_mass_... And the magical Russian propaganda launch codes that required Russia and USA to request Ukraine to decommission nukes, because Ukraine couldn't use any of those nukes. By the way, what are the launch codes for nukes deployed by bombers lmao the bombers won't take off if Russia didn't insert the launch codes?

rayiner 2y ago

You’re saying we already gave them the equivalent of NATO Article 5?

spiderfarmer 2y ago
Not equivalent, but the USA is in violation as of today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  The USA is not in violation of that. All of points 1-6 have been complied with. Russia is in clear violation of it, but it never promised US military intervention. All it promises is we'd go to the Security Council about it. The memorandum didn't really anticipate one of the signatories with a UN veto being the aggressor.
  - spectra72 2y ago
    The UK, France and China also signed that same agreement.
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      France and China signed separate, individual agreements. The UK and France have clearly followed (and exceeded, via direct military aid it does not require) the requirements of the memorandum. I can't find the text of China's agreement.
      - spectra72 2y ago
        As has the US with all of their aid. Yet, the US is the one that is forever chided for being negligent to the terms of the agreement.
        ceejayoz 2y ago
        > As has the US with all of their aid. As I've noted upthread. > Yet, the US is the one that is forever chided for being negligent to the terms of the agreement. The US has absolutely complied with the Budapest Memorandum's requirements. Military aid isn't required, it's just a good idea. The recent withdrawal of aid is a betrayal of an ally, but not a violation of the Memorandum.

kelipso 2y ago

The nukes were never under Ukraine control or possession. It's like saying Turkey has nukes, they don't, they are US nukes.

libertine 2y ago
Here comes the Russian propaganda... The nukes belonged to Ukraine. Just like Belarus nukes belonged to them. What is said by Russian propagandists is that Ukraine didn't have the launch codes - like it was some magical barrier that would prevent Ukraine from deploying the nukes if they wanted to. Like Ukrainian scientists didn't play a major a role in USSR nuclear development, and didn't have the know how to just use other system to deploy the nukes. It's part of the Russian propaganda to make Ukrainians into incompetent inferior ethnic group - why do you think they address them by derogatory ethnic slurs like "little Russians"?
- kelipso 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - libertine 2y ago
    You're in the wrong place to spread Russia propaganda, here we go: > After its dissolution in 1991, Ukraine became the third largest nuclear power in the world and held about one third of the former Soviet nuclear weapons, delivery system, and significant knowledge of its design and production. Ukraine inherited about 130 UR-100N intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBM) with six warheads each, 46 RT-23 Molodets ICBMs with ten warheads apiece, as well as 33 heavy bombers, totaling approximately 1,700 nuclear warheads that remained on Ukrainian territory.[0] [0]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_and_weapons_of_mass_... And the magical Russian propaganda launch codes that required Russia and USA to request Ukraine to decommission nukes, because Ukraine couldn't use any of those nukes. By the way, what are the launch codes for nukes deployed by bombers lmao the bombers won't take off if Russia didn't insert the launch codes?