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There’s no “propaganda network.” America has a president that overthrew the GOP leadership by destroying Jeb Bush over the Iraq War: https://youtu.be/H4ThZcq1oJ

There’s no “propaganda network.” America has a president that overthrew the GOP leadership by destroying Jeb Bush over the Iraq War: https://youtu.be/H4ThZcq1oJQ?si=ZawKMFFY3LmAhYMr https://youtu.be/H4ThZcq1oJQ?si=ZawKMFFY3LmAhYMr. After the mistakes of the last two decades, there is little appetite in America to do anything in foreign countries americans can’t find on a map beyond empty virtue signaling.

croes 2y ago
Trump cited Russian propaganda of Zelensky‘s 4% approval rate. So where did he get that from?
- rayiner 2y ago
  You think random factoids are driving Trump’s viewpoint? Trump overthrew the Bush dynasty by eviscerating Jeb over the Iraq War: https://youtu.be/H4ThZcq1oJQ?si=Y3nWQeiui8KJhj8b https://youtu.be/H4ThZcq1oJQ?si=Y3nWQeiui8KJhj8b. Now, neocons want to chalk that up as bad execution of an otherwise sound ideology. But you don’t think that Trump’s supporters could genuinely disagree with that assessment—think that the underlying problem is that america is too willing to intervene militarily in places that don’t directly affect the U.S.? You think that view is driven by Russian propaganda? The way I see it, Ukraine is the test case for the foreign policy populist Democrats have long supported. The Cold War is over. The likelihood that Putin will invade Germany or France next is low. Regional wars are just that, and we should let them play out without getting involved. Otherwise you’re still subscribing to Reaganite neoconservatism—you’re just quibbling about the details of whether to involve the american military empire in any particular skirmish.
  - croes 2y ago
    I think personal animosities drive Trump's viewports, otherwise you wouldn't call a president a dictator because he didn't held an election during a war what's exactly that what the Ukrainian constitution says. You wouldn't appease a dictator who imprisoned and killed his opposition. And Putin wouldn't attack openly, nowadays you attack per online sabotage, something the US will see rising, or won't see because Trump suspended the cyber operations. Strangely enough he has no problem sending money to Israel after Hamas attacked them, despite the Israel army is much more powerful than the Hamas. So Trump has no problem being involved in wars he knows his supported side will win or has already won. Trump gos for the easy wins, he is a low-hanging fruit harvester. Same with DOGE. Firing people doesn't reduce bureaucracy, changing laws and regulations does. But that's not what they do. BTW people said the same about the likelihood of Putin attacking Ukraine, or about the likelihood of Ukraine withstanding the attack more than weeks. Seems like likelihood is a bad measure for reality. And pissing of your allies and victim blaming the president of an invaded country is bad politics, unless you are the villain.
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    > You think random factoids are driving Trump’s viewpoint? Very much so. https://www.businessinsider.com/gary-cohn-stole-documents-off-trump-desk-hr-mcmaster-confirms-woodward-book-2018-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/gary-cohn-stole-documents-of... > According to the Washington Examiner, McMaster said on Tuesday that Gary Cohn, Trump's former top economic adviser, did steal documents off the president's desk to prevent Trump from pulling the US out of key trade deals. > Cohn told colleagues at the time that the theft was necessary and that Trump would forget about the idea, according to the book, released earlier this month. Woodward reported that Cohn also snatched a document that would have pulled the US out of the North American Free Trade Agreement from the president's desk. He has a long history of parroting the last thing someone said to him. https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2017/04/14/want-change-trump-mind-policy-last-one-who-talks-him/jYYJg0UhOu0y9FB044wCIN/story.html https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2017/04/14/want-chan...
  - freejazz 2y ago
    I always wonder how is it that you are allowed to post so much in controversial political threads, yet your posts are usually significantly voted down. Does the rate limiting not apply to you? Also is anyone seriously suggested France or Germany would be next? Wouldn't it be more like Poland? And your perspective reeks of the weeks prior to the Ukraine invasion, where so many swore Russia would never do it, it was just Biden-antagonism. And this isn't me being pro Biden. These are just facts.
    - rayiner 2y ago
      I voted for Biden, and while I was unhappy with the result for many reasons, I thought he did an okay job keeping us from getting more deeply involved in the Ukraine war. Many people seem to take it as axiomatic that the U.S. has an obligation to use force to maintain pre-existing borders. And we simply don’t agree with you about that. The standard for me is whether it’s going to significantly affect the daily life of someone in Iowa. So maybe I’d care if anyone was seriously saying France and Germany could fall to Russia. But short of that?
      - freejazz 2y ago
        How is that even a response to my post? At all? I didn't express any opinion if the US should use force... so I'm not sure what you could agree or disagree with about that.
- fhat151ag 2y ago
  He knows it's wrong. He wanted to elicit a counter statement from Zelensky. Which Zelensky gave, saying that he had 57% approval rating. So now Trump can say: Look, if you have 57% approval rating, why do you shun elections?
  - kgwxd 2y ago
    > So now Trump can say: Look, if you have 57% approval rating, why do you shun elections? So a lie to "prove" another lie? Is he's going to show us exactly how he's "shunning elections"?
  - croes 2y ago
    And then Zelensky can say because our constitution says so.
  - layer8 2y ago
    I honestly don’t get the impression that Trump is that strategic. He also usually doesn’t care if something is right or wrong, but only whether it supports his interests.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
beretguy 2y ago
[flagged]
- josephstalinOk 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - beretguy 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - kelipso 2y ago
    > If you believe that there is no NATO propaganda network that controls all of the western media, you are a victim of it. Yep, the best propaganda is one you don't even think of as propaganda. It's just the truth.
- rayiner 2y ago
  Like most Asians and most Muslims, I have been opposed to the “rules based international order” my entire adult life. American proxy wars have caused tremendous damage around the world. And I’m incredibly proud we finally have an American President who realizes they don’t serve American interests either. This is not a new sentiment and it caused by Russian social media propaganda: https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4473508,00.html https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4473508,00.html. I cite Chomsky less these days than I used to, but I recall back when I was a Gore-supporting Democrat and we were mocking “Team America: World Police” he was seen as pretty respectable. Is he Russian propaganda?
  - lern_too_spel 2y ago
    American proxy wars propping up illegitimate governments that rule without the consent of the governed have caused problems. The US is supporting a legitimate government against an invading dictatorship. The broad brush you paint with would have had the US not support the allies with weapons in WW2 all the way through 1941.
master_crab 2y ago
Leaving aside the Iraq war discussion for a moment (that war, by the way, was America’s Pickett’s Charge, the high tide of the US) it’s amazing remembering how anti-Trump the Republican crowd was. A complete world of difference from today.
- DidYaWipe 2y ago
  Their hypocrisy knows no bounds. They hate electric cars, but all of a sudden the guy who popularized them is a hero. Zelensky is invited here and shows incredible restraint and decorum only to be shouted down and vilified. Meanwhile, Netanyahu comes over here and CHASTISES Congress for not delivering weapons FAST ENOUGH. This after we've propped up Israel's apartheid regime and filled warehouses with weapons for decades.

croes 2y ago

Trump cited Russian propaganda of Zelensky‘s 4% approval rate. So where did he get that from?

rayiner 2y ago
You think random factoids are driving Trump’s viewpoint? Trump overthrew the Bush dynasty by eviscerating Jeb over the Iraq War: https://youtu.be/H4ThZcq1oJQ?si=Y3nWQeiui8KJhj8b https://youtu.be/H4ThZcq1oJQ?si=Y3nWQeiui8KJhj8b. Now, neocons want to chalk that up as bad execution of an otherwise sound ideology. But you don’t think that Trump’s supporters could genuinely disagree with that assessment—think that the underlying problem is that america is too willing to intervene militarily in places that don’t directly affect the U.S.? You think that view is driven by Russian propaganda? The way I see it, Ukraine is the test case for the foreign policy populist Democrats have long supported. The Cold War is over. The likelihood that Putin will invade Germany or France next is low. Regional wars are just that, and we should let them play out without getting involved. Otherwise you’re still subscribing to Reaganite neoconservatism—you’re just quibbling about the details of whether to involve the american military empire in any particular skirmish.
- croes 2y ago
  I think personal animosities drive Trump's viewports, otherwise you wouldn't call a president a dictator because he didn't held an election during a war what's exactly that what the Ukrainian constitution says. You wouldn't appease a dictator who imprisoned and killed his opposition. And Putin wouldn't attack openly, nowadays you attack per online sabotage, something the US will see rising, or won't see because Trump suspended the cyber operations. Strangely enough he has no problem sending money to Israel after Hamas attacked them, despite the Israel army is much more powerful than the Hamas. So Trump has no problem being involved in wars he knows his supported side will win or has already won. Trump gos for the easy wins, he is a low-hanging fruit harvester. Same with DOGE. Firing people doesn't reduce bureaucracy, changing laws and regulations does. But that's not what they do. BTW people said the same about the likelihood of Putin attacking Ukraine, or about the likelihood of Ukraine withstanding the attack more than weeks. Seems like likelihood is a bad measure for reality. And pissing of your allies and victim blaming the president of an invaded country is bad politics, unless you are the villain.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  > You think random factoids are driving Trump’s viewpoint? Very much so. https://www.businessinsider.com/gary-cohn-stole-documents-off-trump-desk-hr-mcmaster-confirms-woodward-book-2018-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/gary-cohn-stole-documents-of... > According to the Washington Examiner, McMaster said on Tuesday that Gary Cohn, Trump's former top economic adviser, did steal documents off the president's desk to prevent Trump from pulling the US out of key trade deals. > Cohn told colleagues at the time that the theft was necessary and that Trump would forget about the idea, according to the book, released earlier this month. Woodward reported that Cohn also snatched a document that would have pulled the US out of the North American Free Trade Agreement from the president's desk. He has a long history of parroting the last thing someone said to him. https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2017/04/14/want-change-trump-mind-policy-last-one-who-talks-him/jYYJg0UhOu0y9FB044wCIN/story.html https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2017/04/14/want-chan...
- freejazz 2y ago
  I always wonder how is it that you are allowed to post so much in controversial political threads, yet your posts are usually significantly voted down. Does the rate limiting not apply to you? Also is anyone seriously suggested France or Germany would be next? Wouldn't it be more like Poland? And your perspective reeks of the weeks prior to the Ukraine invasion, where so many swore Russia would never do it, it was just Biden-antagonism. And this isn't me being pro Biden. These are just facts.
  - rayiner 2y ago
    I voted for Biden, and while I was unhappy with the result for many reasons, I thought he did an okay job keeping us from getting more deeply involved in the Ukraine war. Many people seem to take it as axiomatic that the U.S. has an obligation to use force to maintain pre-existing borders. And we simply don’t agree with you about that. The standard for me is whether it’s going to significantly affect the daily life of someone in Iowa. So maybe I’d care if anyone was seriously saying France and Germany could fall to Russia. But short of that?
    - freejazz 2y ago
      How is that even a response to my post? At all? I didn't express any opinion if the US should use force... so I'm not sure what you could agree or disagree with about that.
fhat151ag 2y ago
He knows it's wrong. He wanted to elicit a counter statement from Zelensky. Which Zelensky gave, saying that he had 57% approval rating. So now Trump can say: Look, if you have 57% approval rating, why do you shun elections?
- kgwxd 2y ago
  > So now Trump can say: Look, if you have 57% approval rating, why do you shun elections? So a lie to "prove" another lie? Is he's going to show us exactly how he's "shunning elections"?
- croes 2y ago
  And then Zelensky can say because our constitution says so.
- layer8 2y ago
  I honestly don’t get the impression that Trump is that strategic. He also usually doesn’t care if something is right or wrong, but only whether it supports his interests.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

beretguy 2y ago

[flagged]

josephstalinOk 2y ago
[flagged]
- beretguy 2y ago
  [flagged]
- kelipso 2y ago
  > If you believe that there is no NATO propaganda network that controls all of the western media, you are a victim of it. Yep, the best propaganda is one you don't even think of as propaganda. It's just the truth.
rayiner 2y ago
Like most Asians and most Muslims, I have been opposed to the “rules based international order” my entire adult life. American proxy wars have caused tremendous damage around the world. And I’m incredibly proud we finally have an American President who realizes they don’t serve American interests either. This is not a new sentiment and it caused by Russian social media propaganda: https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4473508,00.html https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4473508,00.html. I cite Chomsky less these days than I used to, but I recall back when I was a Gore-supporting Democrat and we were mocking “Team America: World Police” he was seen as pretty respectable. Is he Russian propaganda?
- lern_too_spel 2y ago
  American proxy wars propping up illegitimate governments that rule without the consent of the governed have caused problems. The US is supporting a legitimate government against an invading dictatorship. The broad brush you paint with would have had the US not support the allies with weapons in WW2 all the way through 1941.

master_crab 2y ago

Leaving aside the Iraq war discussion for a moment (that war, by the way, was America’s Pickett’s Charge, the high tide of the US) it’s amazing remembering how anti-Trump the Republican crowd was. A complete world of difference from today.

DidYaWipe 2y ago
Their hypocrisy knows no bounds. They hate electric cars, but all of a sudden the guy who popularized them is a hero. Zelensky is invited here and shows incredible restraint and decorum only to be shouted down and vilified. Meanwhile, Netanyahu comes over here and CHASTISES Congress for not delivering weapons FAST ENOUGH. This after we've propped up Israel's apartheid regime and filled warehouses with weapons for decades.