3 ms·

Can someone explain why the OSA is forcing this to shut down? Merican here.

ColinWright 2y ago
Although probably intended to target large platforms, the OSA is worded in such a way as to apply to nearly everyone who provides any kind of service that allows user-to-user interaction. It is (rightly) ostensibly intended to prevent abuse, terrorism, grooming, and similar activities, but it requires a full risk assessment against around 10 different possible interactions, and the paperwork is potentially onerous. But worse, the fines are potentially in the tens of millions of pounds, and even inadvertent non-compliance can result in extensive prison time. Of course, the government says they won't go after the small organisations, but if the wind changes, the legislation is there. Even if the risk is extremely small, the penalties are life-destroying. As a result, many are deciding it's simply not worth the risk. Also explained here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43152178 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43152178 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43152154 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43152154 This comment is especially useful: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43152930 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43152930 Liability is unlimited and there's no provision in law for being a single person or small group of volunteers. You'll be held to the same standards as a behemoth with full time lawyers.
- Talanes 2y ago
  >Of course, the government says they won't go after the small organisations, but if the wind changes, the legislation is there. Especially because with online projects, all it takes is an upswing in popularity for the general public to perceive you as a large organization. Would they have ignored Minecraft until Microsoft purchased it if these laws had existed during it's upswing? I doubt it.
- cco 2y ago
  Does the LLC not exist in the UK?
  - hdjrudni 2y ago
    Even if it does...are you registering companies for hobby projects?
    - Suzuran 2y ago
      You are if you want to survive even a trivially baseless lawsuit.
    - dartos 2y ago
      If I’m exposing myself to legal risk, yes. It’s really easy to get an LLC registered
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - reverendsteveii 2y ago
    Do LLCs protect against criminal liability? Right now if your website has any way of allowing two users to talk to one another you're covered by this law and the penalties for violation include prison time.
  - ColinWright 2y ago
    There is some discussion that the framing of the legislation allows the government to go after the individuals behind the company. The company has to name individuals who are responsible for various aspects, and they are then legally liable. I can't confirm this yet, but it would not surprise me. "The power of accurate observations is commonly called cynicism by those who haven't got it." -- George Bernard Shaw
    - Dylan16807 2y ago
      What if you don't name anyone? The plan being: hope they actually stay away from small companies, but if they start giving you trouble for not having anyone named then you shut down.
      - 2y ago
lotharcable 2y ago
OSA is a censorship law that pushes the cost of monitoring and compliance onto website operators. This means that unless you are a gigantic corporation with deep pockets and can afford all the hundreds of hours of lawyers, developers, and moderators needed to comply with the law then you really can't afford to operate websites that other people can use. It is effectively handing over the keys of WWW to mega corporations in the UK. If you are operating a personal website it doesn't impact you, but if you are doing forums or anything were more then a handful of users use then you'll need a pretty significant budget to keep it running without the fear of the government cracking down on you.
- unification_fan 2y ago
  The UK has been seriously going downhill ever since it left the EU. Not that it was doing great before, but damn. I wouldn't want to be one of its citizens right now, knowing that all my compatriots are such fucking idiots. There's no other way to say it, I'm sorry. Hey it's not like I feel superior or smug about it. I'm affected too, in my own country. The world is slowly but surely giving away all of its democratic rights. One by one... But the problem is that all the uneducated, easily manipulated dumbfucks are letting "them" do it. As if they actually understood what they voted for. As if their opinion actually mattered. They're just pawns and nothing more. Sigh. Let me out already I don't deserve this.

Although probably intended to target large platforms, the OSA is worded in such a way as to apply to nearly everyone who provides any kind of service that allows user-to-user interaction. It is (rightly) ostensibly intended to prevent abuse, terrorism, grooming, and similar activities, but it requires a full risk assessment against around 10 different possible interactions, and the paperwork is potentially onerous. But worse, the fines are potentially in the tens of millions of pounds, and even inadvertent non-compliance can result in extensive prison time. Of course, the government says they won't go after the small organisations, but if the wind changes, the legislation is there. Even if the risk is extremely small, the penalties are life-destroying. As a result, many are deciding it's simply not worth the risk. Also explained here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43152178 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43152178 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43152154 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43152154 This comment is especially useful: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43152930 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43152930 Liability is unlimited and there's no provision in law for being a single person or small group of volunteers. You'll be held to the same standards as a behemoth with full time lawyers.

Talanes 2y ago
>Of course, the government says they won't go after the small organisations, but if the wind changes, the legislation is there. Especially because with online projects, all it takes is an upswing in popularity for the general public to perceive you as a large organization. Would they have ignored Minecraft until Microsoft purchased it if these laws had existed during it's upswing? I doubt it.
cco 2y ago
Does the LLC not exist in the UK?
- hdjrudni 2y ago
  Even if it does...are you registering companies for hobby projects?
  - Suzuran 2y ago
    You are if you want to survive even a trivially baseless lawsuit.
  - dartos 2y ago
    If I’m exposing myself to legal risk, yes. It’s really easy to get an LLC registered
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- reverendsteveii 2y ago
  Do LLCs protect against criminal liability? Right now if your website has any way of allowing two users to talk to one another you're covered by this law and the penalties for violation include prison time.
- ColinWright 2y ago
  There is some discussion that the framing of the legislation allows the government to go after the individuals behind the company. The company has to name individuals who are responsible for various aspects, and they are then legally liable. I can't confirm this yet, but it would not surprise me. "The power of accurate observations is commonly called cynicism by those who haven't got it." -- George Bernard Shaw
  - Dylan16807 2y ago
    What if you don't name anyone? The plan being: hope they actually stay away from small companies, but if they start giving you trouble for not having anyone named then you shut down.
    - 2y ago

lotharcable 2y ago

OSA is a censorship law that pushes the cost of monitoring and compliance onto website operators. This means that unless you are a gigantic corporation with deep pockets and can afford all the hundreds of hours of lawyers, developers, and moderators needed to comply with the law then you really can't afford to operate websites that other people can use. It is effectively handing over the keys of WWW to mega corporations in the UK. If you are operating a personal website it doesn't impact you, but if you are doing forums or anything were more then a handful of users use then you'll need a pretty significant budget to keep it running without the fear of the government cracking down on you.

unification_fan 2y ago
The UK has been seriously going downhill ever since it left the EU. Not that it was doing great before, but damn. I wouldn't want to be one of its citizens right now, knowing that all my compatriots are such fucking idiots. There's no other way to say it, I'm sorry. Hey it's not like I feel superior or smug about it. I'm affected too, in my own country. The world is slowly but surely giving away all of its democratic rights. One by one... But the problem is that all the uneducated, easily manipulated dumbfucks are letting "them" do it. As if they actually understood what they voted for. As if their opinion actually mattered. They're just pawns and nothing more. Sigh. Let me out already I don't deserve this.