14 ms·
Repairable Flatpack Toaster
- MisterTea 2y agoThis brings a smile to my face after just rough assembling laser cut sheet AL which forms the enclosure for a water circulating pump system I built. Same style of raw sheet metal and external screws. It just needs to work and look decent. edit: I'd buy one of these.
- kibwen 2y agoI hope the comments here don't end up quibbling about the practicality or economics of this toaster specifically, because the point here is the process. This project involves reverse engineering, designing from scratch, manufacturing, developing beginner-accessible documentation, and performing real-world user studies. We should be encouraging people to do more of this!
- josephwegner 2y agoBut I am actually interested in the economics! The author mentions sending her designs out to a factory - I would expect this is astonishingly expensive for a single prototype! Wouldn’t that be thousands of dollars? Is anyone familiar how to get good factory-made parts like this at DIY budgets? Not that that takes away from the article at all. This project has many merits, and although cost may not be one of them, it’s still interesting!
- eitally 2y agoNo, it wouldn't cost thousands. There are plenty of shops that specialize in prototypes and small pilot runs and there's nothing complicated about the design or material of this product.
- jdietrich 2y agoSendCutSend offer surprisingly inexpensive sheet metal parts in single quantities. https://sendcutsend.com/ https://sendcutsend.com/
- Beijinger 2y agoI have ordered stuff here: https://www.schaeffer-ag.de/en/ https://www.schaeffer-ag.de/en/
- stevage 2y agoWhoa that looks really fun. Great website, love the video demo of using the siet.
- _whiteCaps_ 2y agoThey're a great service. I've done some laser cut aluminum bits for projects, and the quality is fantastic.
- bruckie 2y agoOSH Cut (https://oshcut.com/ https://oshcut.com/) provides similar services. Their automated DFM analysis software is pretty impressive. Perhaps more interesting to the audience here is that Caleb Chamberlain, the CEO (and a college acquaintance of mine), writes a series of articles about running the business for the trade publication The Fabricator. You can find them here: https://www.thefabricator.com/author/caleb-chamberlain https://www.thefabricator.com/author/caleb-chamberlain. He covers both business (operations, strategy) and technical aspects of running a highly automated small job metal fabrication shop.
- LMSolar 2y agoI am super late to mention this, but we use sendcutsend also, great results. For 3D work, was surprised not to see https://www.hubs.com/ https://www.hubs.com/ mentioned - used to be 3DHubs. US and international multi-axis machining, 3d printing, etc. Quite helpful.
- rtsang1 2y agoIt looks like off the shelf electronics with custom sheet metal parts. Are far as low volume prototyping goes, sheet metal is as cost efficient as it gets for large metal parts. If you're sourcing from China, I'd estimate 500 bucks per prototype (with two sets in case one breaks).
- nancyminusone 2y agoI build things like this in similarly low quantity - you are probably looking at a grand or two toaster kit there, 95% of which is the custom parts - if it was done locally. The time for someone else to do it is what your paying for. It can be done exceptionally cheap in dollars if YOU do it, but you'll still pay with your time, and you'll still need machine access. Cheap and easy "factory" quality is probably PCBWAY or similar in China - they do more than PCBs these days. Call it "prototype" budget - several hundred dollars of parts instead of thousands.
- AlotOfReading 2y agoMy experience is that PCBWay and similar usually offer better quality than doing it yourself. They get their costs down by automating everything they can. They're usually competitive at initial samples than many of the big houses too for essentially the same reason.
- TylerE 2y agoThe other big insight here is that often making 50 doesn't cost much more than making 1, as much of the cost will be in programming and setup charges, not actually running the part. Sheet steel is pretty cheap, too.
- michaelmior 2y ago> sending his designs out sending her designs out
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- josephwegner 2y agoThank you. It's too late to edit, but goodness am I embarrassed now. Very sorry, Kasey!
- dang 2y agoI've taken the liberty of doing a s/his/her/ in your comment above; I hope that's ok. (Edit: er, I mean s/ his/ her/. The thises are all intact.)
- michaelt 2y agoIt all depends on what you ask the factory to do. This project seems to take its heating elements, clockwork timer and knob from a classic Dualit 2 Slice toaster - so those parts are all available off-the-shelf. Other than that, this design needs some laser cut and bent metal, and some wooden feet. If you're able to bend the metal yourself and find some off-the-shelf feet, you could probably get the flat sheets of stainless steel laser cut and shipped for less than $100. On the other hand, if one wanted a factory to do more demanding production processes, with more worker time or more machine setup - you're right that it would cost a good deal more.
- MobiusHorizons 2y agoThere are also services that can do the sheet metal bending for you if you have the cad designed. Of course shipping can get pricey, but I think it’s not prohibitively expensive.
- tomgp 2y agoOn the subject of Dualit toasters: I've picked several up on the street over the years, cleaned them up and replaced a few parts (heating elements and/ or timers) and for about £10 effectively had a new toaster to give away/ sell. Dualit toasters aren't the best but I wholeheartedly recomend them from the point of view of DIY repair and maintainence. Our current model is 20 years old this year.
- crispyambulance 2y agoYeah, the knob and the lack of automated pop-out made me think that they at least deeply evaluated dualit models. I have 2 dualits. Both inherited, both well over 20 years old. There really is not much to repair with these things. I will say the OP’s design looks cool, it’s certainly an interesting exercise and portfolio item.
- Retr0id 2y agoThe last one I picked up off the street had no problems whatsoever, except for the fact that the power cord had been cut off. Presumably someone had cut it off deliberately, which is infuriating - but hey, free toaster.
- sizzle 2y agoIsn’t this the perfect type of project/product for Kickstarter?
- serviceberry 2y agoPerfect in what sense? Kickstarter is useful if you're thinking of doing something capital-intensive and need money and customers beforehand. This comes with downsides: deadlines, shipping, cranky customers, etc. This is a hobby project and there's nothing to suggest that the author wants to get in the business of selling toasters for a living... or that it would be wise for them to do so.
- cogman10 2y agoThe target, though, is particularly bad. My parents literally have a toaster from the 70s that they still use. I have a toaster I bought 20 years ago. Toasters (usually) don't have e-waste. They are incredibly simple machines that are easy to buy without so much as a single diode. That's because they are really simply just a box with heating elements. If you want to battle e-waste like the article suggests, maybe pick a product that doesn't already have a 50-year service life without the need for repairs.
- hatthew 2y agoModern toasters are generally way less reliable than older toasters. I think it is very difficult to buy a new toaster today that you can be confident will have a 50-year lifespan.
- turnsout 2y agoAlso true, but how many people are buying toasters in 2025? I would bet that air fryers and toaster ovens outsell toasters 10:1. Still, I think this is a great portfolio piece. The designer should keep going, and amass a little collection of simple repairable appliances.
- davidmurdoch 2y agoMe! I bought one last year.
- esseph 2y agoOurs died and I just bought a new 4 slice toaster to replace it. I haven't seen a toaster oven big enough for my family, and we otherwise have an excellent oven with convection features.
- mhb 2y agoHow big is your family? A normal Breville toaster oven can hold 4 slices. And there are bigger ones.
- aaron695 2y ago[dead]
- protocolture 2y agoI can walk and quibble about economics at the same time.
- geoffeg 2y agoThat's a lot of JS for a static site. For some reason it hijacked my keyboard shortcuts for back and forward.
- stronglikedan 2y agosame. wtf?
- quesera 2y agoWelcome to Squarespace. Fortunately, these sites often work fine with only CSS and images allowed. No JS required.
- htunnicliff 2y agoI’d love to buy one of these.
- blagie 2y agoI would definitely buy one, assuming there was some guarantee on parts availability "for the lifespan of the company up to X decades" or some similarly long time. I would doubly do so if the design were open-source. I would triply do so if I could have all my new home appliances this way. I tossed my last fridge and my last washing machine over parts which would have been in the single-digit dollars to manufacture. If the author is not commercializing this, the design and instructions should be open-sourced (and, ideally, advertised to a Chinese discount company).
- toast0 2y ago> and, ideally, advertised to a Chinese discount company Do you need to provide the documentation to the discount company? I was always under the impression the best way to get a product made was a) make a compelling video b) post to a crowdfunding site and make a lot of PR noise elsewhere c) wait for the knock offs, if it takes a while, write up some posts about how you're having trouble finding production partners d) if the knocks offs are decent, send a good knock off to the backers, otherwise refund their pledges.
- mikepurvis 2y agoI have the same $30 no-name toaster that my now-ex purchased shortly after we were married in 2010. I open it up every few years to deep clean the crumbs, and I've changed the cord twice. Thing is an absolute tank. I try to be a BIFL type of person and am willing to pay a premium for items that will last. Occasionally I hit up against something like this toaster, though, which runs completely counter to my expectations of what makes an indestructible kitchen appliance.
- nemomarx 2y agoHow hard is replacing the cord? That seems like it goes a long way to extending the life already, though.
- dmoy 2y agoReplacing: usually not hard. Open the thing, unscrew the things holding the ends of the wire on, remove old cord, put new cord's wires in, screw down, close thing back up. (Often "open the thing" and "close the thing" are the hardest - modern devices with plastic clipped on plastic and needing delicate shimming to pry stuff open) Depending on the level of fix you're going for and where the break is, it can be anywhere from very simple and a few minutes, to much more involved. If the break is actually at the plug end, you can often pop off the plug housing, trim the wire back, and do basically the same as above. If the break is in the middle of the cord and you're not squeamish about the final fix having electrical tape on bare wire, then cut, strip, twist, tape, and ... don't fuck it up?
- dmoy 2y agoI would also personally not do this with an American ungrounded toaster, even though I have an EE degree and have done a lot of wire stripping, re-assembling wires, electrical tape, soldering, etc stuff. A new toaster is cheap. House fires are not.
- account42 2y ago> If the break is actually at the plug end, you can often pop off the plug housing, trim the wire back, and do basically the same as above. I haven't seen a plug that can be opened in ages.
- TOMDM 2y agoIs there good data on goods that are the largest contributors to e-waste? A toaster is a great test case for learning about repairable design, but I can only imagine most people will only buy on average 1 or 2 toasters in their life. Framework seems like they're tackling laptops, which to my gut feel like they're largely responsible for consumer waste.
- Neikius 2y agoI'd say mobile phones are worse, many more produced so even considering phone size. And harder to take apart even though laptops are getting worse. But this is all anecdotal, don't have any hard info.
- mattlondon 2y agoProbably a lot in generic household appliances - washing machines, microwaves etc. They've all get electronics in these days. In my limited experience, things that get hot and or wet as part of their function tends to break more often than those that don't. So basically anything in your kitchen or laundry.
- ShinTakuya 2y agoNot sure where you people are getting these multi decade toasters, I need to replace mine every 5-10 years. Obviously not the worst case of e-waste either way but 1 or 2 seems like a severe underestimate but that could just be my own experience. Usually a heating element dies or similar. If it were easier to replace the heating elements I'd think it'd help reduce waste, but as you and others have noted, that wasn't the point of the article.
- Mister_Snuggles 2y agoI've only bought two toasters in my life. The first was a two-slice Kenmore (RIP Sears) which still works. It cost $20 and was purchased close to 25 years ago. I only used this a couple times a week and now the usage is very sporadic, but it always works when I need it to. The second was a Cuisinart toaster oven, which is not exactly a toaster but has ended up being our primary toaster. I have no idea how old it is since we bought it at a garage sale for $5 about 5 years ago. This is used almost daily, sometimes multiple times a day, and for a lot more than just toast. I can see buying one more toaster, meaning a toaster oven, in my life, but it will probably be to get new functionality (e.g., air fryer, larger capacity, etc) instead of replacing something broken.
- 1970-01-01 2y ago>Two participants changed their views about toasters in general because how toasters work was not as complicated as they first thought We really do need to acknowledge that spending time taking things apart is a critical life skill. If you don't do it, you're forever a slave to buying new things.
- _carbyau_ 2y agoAgreed. I take apart stuff that is dead, partly to see how it comes apart and gain skills in finding hidden screws(under stickers et al) or non-destructively popping plastic clips (80% success rate...). But also once it's apart to see how it functions, what good design choices were made vs what was a bad choice because it broke. How could it be improved? Are all the design choices for the consumer? etc etc Aside: I have a lot of HDD platters sitting around.
- hinkley 2y agoThe thing is with something like this, if you're clever with the design you could make a device that packs flat, but isn't entirely flat. So imagine you make the depth of the toaster greater than the height (easy with those feet). You put a quarter inch radius on the top plate, make the front and back plate a half an inch shorter so they nest inside the top plate in the box. And in fact if you put locking tabs on the two plates to keep the front from oil canning, those would also fit in if you flip the plates the right way 'round in the box. You can tell from the bolts in the picture that there are already right angle bends in the sheet metal. So they're already using the third dimension just not with as much flair.
- cosmic_cheese 2y agoI had similar thoughts. It’s already quite handsome for a project of this nature but there’s still a lot of low hanging fruit for aesthetic improvement without negatively impacting other aspects.
- unraveller 2y agoit's not just aesthetic, you don't want to encourage misuse with a large flat top surface to place things on.
- hinkley 2y agoI didn't even think about that. But when I started reading your response I had a sudden flash of cutting my forehead with a falling can of beans and suddenly wishing that cans weren't so sharp. Sharp edges on appliances aren't that good either.
- rssoconnor 2y agoCan someone draw what hinkley is talking about?
- hinkley 2y agoI tried to find pictures of boxes with rounded corners and they're all rounded on the vertical corners, like a box of mints. Or the polar opposite of a bread box with a lid with a >4" radius of curvature on the lid. But look at the lid on a metal tin. The lip around the edge is often not a perfectly sharp bend. There's a small radius to it. So imagine the 'lid' was a single piece and the other sides were flat pieces that bolt together. If you size the pieces right they should fit into the 'lid'.
- seltzered_ 2y agoFunny, my first thought in seeing this headline was The Toaster Project by Thomas Thwaites: http://www.thetoasterproject.org/ http://www.thetoasterproject.org/ (~2010) - more of a reflection about globalism and what is possible to create from scratch. https://www.ted.com/talks/thomas_thwaites_how_i_built_a_toaster_from_scratch?language=en https://www.ted.com/talks/thomas_thwaites_how_i_built_a_toas...
- krisoft 2y agoWhat I don't like about Thomas Thwaites's Toaster project is that I feel the end product intentionally looks bad. I feel the artist could have chosen different paths and could have created a practical toaster just with a little bit of care. The artist just choose to not do that because if the toaster would look practical and usable that would undermine their message about globalism, and the supposed impossibility of the task. Because in a project like this "man sets out to build a toaster, and actually succeeds" does not sounds good. And that just feels like learned helplessness.
- jdietrich 2y agoHe's an artist, not an engineer. I'm willing to believe that the toaster genuinely is his best effort. I know that I could do far better, but I have a lifetime of experience in herding atoms. I suspect that my attempt at oil painting would be equally risible.
- iamwil 2y agoYou should try it. I'd love to see what an engineer could do with building toasters from scratch.
- krisoft 2y ago> He's an artist, not an engineer. He is by training an industrial designer. But also, there is no clear boundary between being an artist and being an engineer. There are artist who show great mastery of engineering in their art work. Either because they studied engineering, or because they picked up enough relevant skills practically to achieve what they want to achieve. I have a particular taste and not everyone will agree what is and isn’t art. But i consider for example David C. Roy‘s wooden kinetic sculptures both art and engineering. Similarly Jacob Tonski’s Balance from Within (a victorian sofa balancing on a single leg) incorporates both art and excelent engineering. Or Thea Ulrich’s aerial moon sculpture. Where the physical manufacturing of the sculpture is the engineering component, while the aerial dance performed on it is the art component. In each of these they could have said “hey I’m just an artist, you can’t possibly expect my thing to work” or “hey i’m an engineer, you can’t possibly expect my thing to have artistic value”. But they were not satisfied with either of those, and pushed themselves, their art and their craft until they got something wonderfull. Where there is a will there is a way. And where the will is to make the object look shitty, you will get that result. Which is fine. But i have heard people draw the conclusion from his work that somehow this is the best anyone can do. And that is not fine with me.
- louwrentius 2y agoMy parents are using an electric hand mixer that is 45+ years old. It's still fine. Products of the past did last longer because they weren't as cost-optimised yet. It seems similar to the story of the vastly over-build Volvo red block engines. Yet, we don't live in a (global) society that cares about living consciously, to build things that last. If something lasts, we don't consume. And that's our true purpose. To consume the things that are produced. Do we need 20+ brands of peanut butter? Why do brands even exist? Why can't we just but 'peanut butter'? The word and our society is actually so strange, if you really think about this. By the way, did I mentioned yet, I really miss David Graeber?
- atrus 2y agoProducts of the past did not last longer. Products of the past for the same price point as today (adj for inflation) especially did not last longer, if they even existed at that price point.
- convolvatron 2y agothat's strictly not true, at least for many segments. my 1960s Kitchenaid mixer has been used since..the 60s, and if you buy a new Kitchenaid today, don't expect that plastic gear to last very long if you actually take it out and use it.
- beacon294 2y agoI had a 60s kitchenaid and it was super loud, possibly over 90 db. Additionally, it had square corners where stuff got stuck, couldn't handle some solids well, and to wash it you often had to remove the blade and gasket. One interesting thing was a gimmick about heating soup with the blender using solely friction. I eventually bought a modern plastic refurb which has been a dream. I do think it is a shame that it won't last 50 years.
- mhb 2y agoA Kitchenaid K5-A mixer cost $159 in 1960. That would be $1,700 today. I'll bet you can get someone to make you a replacement metal gear for something less than $1,000.
- rndmize 2y agoThis is excellent work. I like everything about this project - user assembly and repair (repair is much easier not only if the item is designed to be repaired, but if the user assembles it in the first place); flat pack for efficient shipping/storage; the overall focus on reuse and waste reduction. Perhaps, with more projects like this for a wider range of items, it'll be possible to pull manufacturers to a more right-to-repair, cradle-to-grave kind of world.
- pyrolistical 2y agoWhen I see repairable I also think moddable. Can it run doom by toasting a new frame per slice?
- shreddit 2y agoAny toaster can do this. If you reduce “frame” to “pixel”
- amenghra 2y agoBack in 2001, Robin Southgate's toaster ran Java (https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/just-javatm-2/0131482114/ch11s09.html https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/just-javatm-2/013148211...) and could probably have been able to run doom, one frame per slice!
- jasongill 2y agoI designed an automotive part that is fabricated out of sheet metal and this article resonates with me because while the completed product looks very simple, the process of getting to the completed product is very complex and has dozens of iterations of designs, failed prototypes, mistakes, etc. That's what is so infuriating when my products get copied by sellers from China or similar - they are taking all of the hundreds of hours of work that I put into a design and skipping that, going straight to the easy part of producing the finalized part. Making the thing is the easy part - making up the thing is the hard part!
- mattlondon 2y agoApparently you can use LLMs with tools like OpenSCAD now and it not be utterly terrible, so that might save you some time :)
- xbar 2y agoNice! I know a good recipe for toast.
- ang_cire 2y ago> Repairable flatpack toaster Good bad so-so
- Arch-TK 2y agoPAT isn't exactly a particularly sophisticated benchmark. But then again, toasters aren't exactly idiot proof (neither are most things in the kitchen) so I guess as long as that case has a low impedance path to the earth pin, and there aren't any exposed single insulated wires, I'd also be happy.
- brudgers 2y agoMy first thought was “is it UL listed?” Then I saw the PAT, looked that up, and it is not near equivalent. Here is a 20 year old version of UL 1026 Electric Household Cooking and Food Serving Appliances for comparison. http://u.dianyuan.com/bbs/u/31/1121404214.pdf http://u.dianyuan.com/bbs/u/31/1121404214.pdf
- nickcw 2y agoHaving mended a few toasters in my time I salute this effort. Cheap toasters are very difficult to take apart and mend. The toasting mechanism on this one looks great. Cheap toasters only last a few years before dying. Usually because someone jams it up then clumsily unjams it while damaging the element. After going through a few toasters in quick succession I finally bought an expensive Dualit one. It's still going 25 years later. I changed the timer mechanism once which was a joy, and you can easily buy spare parts. The Dualit cost over 10 times more than the cheap toasters though. I don't regret that purchase though and it has actually saved me money over the years and made much less landfill. Funnily enough the toaster in this article looks quite like the Dualit. I don't suppose that is a coincidence!
- gavanm 2y agoHaving recently done a timer replacement on a Dualit, I think that might literally be a Dualit timer module. Looks identical in the packing box photo. It wouldn’t surprise me if the heating elements were the same as well (haven’t checked) though those are probably more commonly available as generic items.
- hgomersall 2y agoThey look the same to me: https://www.dualit.com/collections/toaster-spares https://www.dualit.com/collections/toaster-spares It seems slightly disingenuous to use the repair parts from a toaster on the market without crediting them.
- vile_wretch 2y agoDualit "Classic" toasters are the only toasters I'm aware of with heating elements that can be replaced. Every cheap toaster I've owned has died from the wire in one of the heating elements burning out. The only two toasters I'd buy these days are a Dualit or a vintage Sunbeam Radiant Control toaster. Dualit wins for the modern slot widths though.
- janfoeh 2y agoMy Italian Milantoast has everything replaceable as well: https://www.milantoast.com/en/products/spare-parts/ https://www.milantoast.com/en/products/spare-parts/
- Waterluvian 2y agoThe problem as I see it is that 99% of toaster owners don’t know where to find the parts in this toaster and/or how to replace them. That’s where I’d love to see more experimentation. There’s a maker space in my old town where you can just take stuff and they’ll nerd out over helping you fix it. I wish there was that, but in a store format. I want to live in a world where it’s just common parlance to say, “my toaster broke so I have to stop at the FixIt on my way home. Yes yes, fixing it is too expensive to support this business model. I want to dream, okay?! Maybe a toaster like this makes it much more reasonable for cheaper appliances to be fixed by the summer student from high school who will learn invaluable skills for $15/hr. I would have killed to make min wage taking apart and doing basic repairs on stuff. I mentor high school students who can CAD and fabricate plastic and metal parts. Surely we could fabricate more young people like that too.
- atrus 2y agoI've toyed around with a similar idea. A pizza shop style manufacturing/fixit hub that would pick up and deliver locally manufactured items like that. I even think that repairing items at a loss could work out, because you'd get valuable customer data on what items they used enough to break, and what parts broke, giving you an insight to make your own product lines that didn't break in that way.
- pragma_x 2y agoI was immediately reminded of this old gem: https://makezine.com/article/craft/a-homemade-toaster-built-from-scrat/ https://makezine.com/article/craft/a-homemade-toaster-built-... No idea what it is about toasters, other than their simplicity, but I really love the effort with the flatpack version.
- lelandfe 2y agoSo cool. From 2009 so there's been some link rot; they had a Tumblr that seems fully disappeared from the web. Most current site: https://www.thomasthwaites.com/the-toaster-project/ https://www.thomasthwaites.com/the-toaster-project/ Older site: http://www.thetoasterproject.org/page2.htm http://www.thetoasterproject.org/page2.htm Some videos: https://vimeo.com/3162229 https://vimeo.com/3162229 https://vimeo.com/3186135 https://vimeo.com/3186135 https://vimeo.com/3186840 https://vimeo.com/3186840 They also did a TED talk on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ODzO7Lz_pw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ODzO7Lz_pw
- KolyaKornelius 2y agoMy toaster is from the 1950s and works fine. Also it's not ugly as sin.
- an_aparallel 2y agoHow do you give out a mains powered toaster with assembly instructions just like that? My experience with diy electronics is that most kit designers are super wary of even giving instruction on mains anything...so as not to be held liable.
- debacle 2y agoYou could make a USB toaster, it would just take a lot longer...
- NBJack 2y agoNonsense. We just need...about 10-15 USB-C laptop charging blocks rated at 100W each. I'm sure can find a 1:10 USB charge splitter (heck, maybe we just need to get creative with a few 1:4s) on Temu. What could possibly go wrong?
- xp84 2y agoBrilliant comments like this make me miss Slashdot moderation. +5, Funny
- debacle 2y agoFor starters, that USB splitter would be single use, assuming it didn't melt before your toast was done.
- alnwlsn 2y agoOr, in the pre-USB-PD days, you do this[0]. Only 30 USB ports required. I swear I remember this being a toaster instead of a hot plate, but I guess you would need around 300 USB ports for a toaster. [0] https://hackaday.com/2022/12/01/throwback-usb-hotplate-used-30-whole-ports/ https://hackaday.com/2022/12/01/throwback-usb-hotplate-used-...
- analog31 2y agoJust cook the toast from the flames of the battery.
- YuccaGloriosa 2y agoCome on, this is basically what a Dualit Classic is. I really don't see this is much more than an exercise. The problem is asking people to spend 5x to 10x the price of cheap mass produced unmaintainable tat.
- krisoft 2y agoThe goal of reducing e-waste is commendable. I really like the idea that if people built their own toaster then they will know how it works and they will feel more comfortable repairing it if something goes wrong with it. That being said I would have started a project like this with researching why toasters end up in the trash. Is it because they break? (and if so which part?) Or is it because people get bored with the old design and want something new which fits their kitchen decoration better? My suspicion is that there are garbage toasters not built to last. And then there are good quality toasters where the toaster probably could serve for decades. Maybe even hundreds of years with part replacements. But changes of taste, and design is what limits the lifetime of the second kind of toasters in reality not breakage.
- i80and 2y agoI have a toaster from the 70's. It's a nice toaster, but has a big problem I didn't expect when I bought it: Apparently most grocery store bread is significantly more wide now than in the past! Most bread won't fit! If the inputs to a device change, that can also cause obsolescence.
- jdprgm 2y agoCool project, also curious about the economics. Have been thinking recently with the increasing quality and affordability of 3d printers and assistive benefits of LLM's it would be cool to basically have the equivalent of lego builds kits for all kinds of consumer goods.
- nancyminusone 2y agoOn the subject of toasters, if you want one that lasts then grab an old toastmaster or Sunbeam (the kind with the chrome sides) and spend a weekend doing a deep clean. They are held together with screws, not bent over tabs. You might be up against decades of baked on grease, so you'll have to break out the sodium hydroxide. You should probably replace the asbestos cord with a rubber one too. The toaster will then last the remainder of your life. The main downside is that the slots are usually to narrow for bagels. There aren't any infinite number of old toasters out there, but there's enough out there for everyone who wants to do the above.
- hondo77 2y agoI bought one from 1965 last year. Got it cheap on eBay. Seller said it didn't work. Seller just didn't know how to turn the knob on the side. I have to buy bread that isn't as wide as I was getting but it's totally worth it. Perfect toast every time.
- convolvatron 2y agogot a 1930s toastmaster single slice for $30 on eBay. new carbon switch contacts, new nichrome wire, new cord. functions great and really looks nice. there are a lot of broken toasters in the world.
- jkestner 2y agoEven other more complex appliances get tossed too easily. My spouse’s desire to get rid of our 15yo microwave was replaced a while ago by the satisfaction of being able to keep it going. I’ve fixed it twice with a few bucks of parts (waveguide cover, door switch).
- cogman10 2y agoHave you ever had one fail? Mine is the $10 plastic special from 20 years ago still toasting it's heart out. The simpler a toaster is, the more likely it is to have eternal life. If you can buy a modern toaster that's just the knob and levers (no digital controls or whatever) then there's really no reason it won't last decades.
- jonah-archive 2y agoThe control knob looks like the one off a Dualit toaster (their Classic model is also extremely repairable), as do the heating elements: https://www.dualit.com/collections/toasters https://www.dualit.com/collections/toasters (I bought a Dualit after using one at a B&B many years ago -- I absolutely love it, though it really is a little overkill for making a few slices of toast each day. But it's a pleasure to use.)
- slyall 2y agoWhen I was a kid we had an two-slice electric "Side door Toaster" when we stayed in our caravan on holiday. It had two spring-loaded fold-up doors on each side which you put the toast on. Then they folder vertically to put the toast near the elements. Half way through you pulled down the doors, flipped the slices over and toasted the other half. https://www.ronebergcairns.com/2006onwards/home06_026.html https://www.ronebergcairns.com/2006onwards/home06_026.html Probably easier to construct that a pop-up
- someothherguyy 2y agocommon to see that in conveyor toasters as well
- vanderZwan 2y agoNice! Although I hope the next project will be a repairable panini grill, those are way more versatile than toasters.
- ElijahLynn 2y agoThis looks awesome, I definitely want one! Are you selling these too?
- d3rockk 2y agoA post worthy of Hacker News Hall of Fame.
- xp84 2y agoI feel that the real thing that this guy is getting at, which I am also a fan of, is "How could we as a society, shift the culture away from disposability and consumption to sustainability and repair?" As someone without all the answers, it seems like only a heavyhanded degree of regulation could have any chance (e.g. high taxes on whole categories of devices with low/no repairability). Though perhaps in a trade apocalypse situation that may happen sooner than we think (such as total breakdown of trade with China) perhaps repair will suddenly be relevant. This is why, as I understand it, basically every car owner in Cuba is also a mechanic. Of course, they had the benefit of having 1950s cars when trade barriers went up. We've got houses full of devices built and purchased with the understanding that you throw away anything with a plug or a battery within 5 years max!
- crabmusket 2y agoMinor point: lots of commenters here are defaulting to male pronouns for the author. In this Dezeen article, for which they spoke to Kasey, they use she/her pronouns. https://www.dezeen.com/2017/07/20/kasey-hou-reduce-electrical-waste-flatpack-repairable-toaster-design-graduates/ https://www.dezeen.com/2017/07/20/kasey-hou-reduce-electrica...
- aussieguy1234 2y ago[flagged]
- razille 2y ago[flagged]
- userbinator 2y agoI think a lot of people just don't pay attention to the domain name or anything else besides the actual content.
- razille 2y agoI agree that much of this is unconscious bias. But it still grates.
- smm11 2y ago[flagged]
- HeatrayEnjoyer 2y agoBut not that's not the case for many of us. We do know who we are, and an increasingly violent sect want us to bury it and pretend otherwise.
- nicbou 2y ago
- ggm 2y agoWe had an old toaster which was swinging plates to hold toast against the elements as a central core. Want both sides toasted? flip the toast. It was a 1920s design. Very functional, few parts to break (springs, hinges mostly) and it burned toast very effectively. It also did not accrue crumbs the way modern sealed-box toasters do. I think if I was making a toaster I'd be looking to this model rather than the slot model, simply because its simpler. Or, placing toast on a flat bed with a reflecting heat plate behind the element. That would work for far thicker toastable objects, and also refreshing pita &c. So many ways to die. Very cool project btw.
- nosrepa 2y agoI wonder when teenage engineering will sell a 2000 dollar version of this.
- saltybytes 2y agoTrying to reduce eWaste as well and was wondering if anybody could recommend repair meetups around NYC, maybe in Westchester?
- jamesriso 2y agoam I the only one who read this headline and thought it was a random three-word identifier?
- twic 2y agoI would definitely confuse this with my NAS and put a couple of hard drives in it.
- botswana99 2y agoThis is great. I have personally gone through a half a dozen toasters. It such a waste. I want to buy one for my lifetime
- afdslfslkfdsk 2y ago[flagged]
- camwhite 2y agoI love this because it is making a practical, everyday item more accessible. I know the toaster is not explicitly open source but I've been lamenting the fact that such an incredible amount of energy is spent making things more accessible but most of those things are not what 'normal people' actually need. For example I think there is a greater need for more open source couches, bikes, houses, clothing, etc than the need for, say, software that helps us coordinate containerized web infrastructure (from a social good perspective)
- johntitorjr 2y agoAgreed on the social good of open source everyday items. I'd love to go to a build-it-yourself store/workshop where they have tools, materials, experts, and open source designs available. The social good of open source software is at an inflection point. Stallman has always been right, but for decades it's been an 'yeah, but so what' situation. In today's consumer tech, surveillance is pervasive and manipulation getting more effective. Of course, that's only a problem if we lived in a fascist state where the government could force companies to work against our interests. Or lived in a network state run by a software company. The only prudent options are moving to open source SW infrastructure running on personally controlled HW, or moving to an off-grid cabin in the woods. I'm incredibly grateful to the folks that create software like immich and jellyfin that allow me to degoogle w/o losing capabilities that I've come to rely on.
- robertfrank 2y agoI don’t mean this in an overly judgmental way, but how much utility is there to open source physical objects for most people if they don’t also include some sort of cost benefit? What’s the utility of an open source t-shirt you can make for $30 when a 5 pack of shirts from Walmart is $10? I like the idea in concept, but how does a normal person implement open source physical good production?
- rnewme 2y agoCompanies pick it up and start selling the open source product. Since it's open anyone can fix it, modify it, upgrade it etc. Prices go down, both for devices and parts. Even if no new parts are available you still have giant used market.
- smm11 2y agoDo it for 'smart' TVs now.
- Brian_K_White 2y agoI guess I'm the only one who thinks it's just not a very good design. Right off the bat there is no excuse for all those screws, and those trays block all the radiation from the elements from reaching the bread! It's a terrible design for accomplishing the task.
- scotty79 2y agoWhat's wrong with the screws? Screws are the king of repairability.
- Brian_K_White 2y agoScrews are the king of parts count, manufacturing process (for the screw itself, and it's nut, as well as then using the screw), and falling apart later. Having the thing be held together by screws is not necessarily the problem, it's having so many instead of having interlocking pieces that need only a couple screws, or maybe none. The alternative doesn't have to be glue or rivets or welding, just folds and tabs and slots. And some amount of welding or rivets isn't necessarily anti-repair either, it just depends what, where, & why.
- billfruit 2y agoIf you have an Airfryer, it is possibly the most consistent method to make toast. 150 degrees at 3 minutes makes perfectly crunchy toast.
- cricalix 2y agoPerhaps it depends on your air fryer. Mine just dries the bread out, and toasts one side sorta..
- chrismatheson 2y agoI have not found the air fryer to cook in the same way as my toaster. The AirFryer is essentially still an oven (at least mine is) with the heat coming predominantly from the top, leading to some form of "double baked" bread, which IMHO isn't the same as toasted (where the bread can be crisp on the outside but still soft in the middle)
- Brian_K_White 2y agoAir fryer dries out the entire bread to a coaster. A toaster blasts the outside of the bread with massive radiation, with thin wire element that goes from dead cold off to 100% instantly, so that the outside gets toasted before the inside gets dry. Air fryer is way too slow and the moving air makes it even worse. Larger toaster-oven air fryers are even worse. Way too slow to heat up and way too much of the wattage wasted radiating away in other directions being just 2 or 4 quarts tubes inches away from the bread, and with splatter shields covering them besides, instead of a veritable cage of thin wire filaments all around the bread and right next to it.
- astrostl 2y agoflatpack | ˈflatˌpak | noun 1 Electronics a package for an integrated circuit consisting of a rectangular sealed unit with a number of horizontal metal pins protruding from its sides.
- quesera 2y agoThat is not the correct meaning in this context. This is the much more commonplace "packs flat for shipping, assembly required by end user" meaning.
- tvb12 2y agoI've always wanted toasters to have a lid to keep dust out. That's one thing I would add to their design.
- Animats 2y agoThere's a video.[1] - Toast is toasted on one end, un-toasted at the other. - Control is just a timer, so the second time you use it twice in succession it will be hot at the start and will need a shorter time, which you have to figure out. Check out the Sunbeam Radiant Control Toaster (1949-1980), which is still considered the peak of toaster design.[2] It's repairable, too. Now replicating that would be a good project. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKbUNDPXCWk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKbUNDPXCWk [2] https://www.theverge.com/22801890/sunbeam-radiant-control-toaster-t20-t35-vista https://www.theverge.com/22801890/sunbeam-radiant-control-to...
- perihelions 2y ago[2] is remarkably interesting: - "And that mechanism doesn’t just wear out after nearly three-quarters of a century of use: there’s a single screw underneath the crumb tray to adjust the tension of the wire, and it alone is enough to bring many aging toasters back to life." edit: There's other HN threads about it, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29342936 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29342936 (232 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38868753 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38868753 (76 comments)
- sejje 2y agoIn the photo of the Sunbeam, it's also got un-toasted areas
- abetusk 2y agoThanks for that video. From the video, the heating elements look to be "flat wire toaster heater elements", maybe from made-in-china.com [0]? I also see some flat heating elements as Waring replacements on Amazon [1]. [0] https://zgeycom.en.made-in-china.com/product/LOEGudIBnbkz/China-Flat-Wire-Heater-Toaster-Heater.html https://zgeycom.en.made-in-china.com/product/LOEGudIBnbkz/Ch... [1] https://amazon.com/Waring-027901-Heating-Element-Toasters/dp/B015B40V3K https://amazon.com/Waring-027901-Heating-Element-Toasters/dp...?
- abetusk 2y agoI also found a "How it's made" clip for a Rowlett toaster [0]. It looks like those heating elements are also available for sale [1]. [0] https://youtube.com/watch?v=SFptFIiRsCg https://youtube.com/watch?v=SFptFIiRsCg [1] https://www.ebay.com/itm/140421765340 https://www.ebay.com/itm/140421765340
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- AngryData 2y agoI find this thread fascinating because even people's "long-term durable" idea of a toaster is way below my experiences and expectations. I would expect even cheap ones to last atleast 20 years. And whats with people replacing their toast cords? What are you doing with the cord that it doesn't last decades? I wonder if this is a case where spending more money results in a worse product because the cheapest versions are essentially a solved design without any gimmicks or unproven design changes made to try justify a higher price/markup.
- hnhg 2y agoYou bring up a good point in that at one point it is also about ensuring the quality of materials and construction processes so that everything lasts by default. On top of that, repairability is another factor. I have a fancy kettle that I am sure will not last five years, and I regret buying it.
- awhitby 2y agoOne obvious thing is that some people are probably toasting a slice a week and others half a dozen a day. The parts don’t time out, they wear out, so that really matters. Another is that being cheap, there’s probably quite variable quality. So it’s not that surprising that experiences vary.
- Cthulhu_ 2y ago"Wear" is exactly right; most toasters have a pretty crude design involving hot glowing wires, springs and an electromagnet that jolts the whole thing pretty violently when it's finished. Just the glowing wires will fail after a while, even if you make them extra thick. (That said we have a basic model secondhand toaster that gets used multiple times a week for the past six years and it's still fine... although some of the glow wires don't work).
- account42 2y agoHow does the coord wear out though? Surely it's not getting hot enough for that so the only wear would be if you constantly bend or pull it.
- urban_winter 2y agoIf you want repairability then you can buy a Dualit. They are unreasonably expensive but very easy to fix. Mine is 25 years old. I replaced one of the elements a few years ago. It's held together with screws and bolts - totally user-repairable. Fun project, nice write-up, but not solving a problem that needs to be solved.
- jalk 2y agoI recently replaced the timer dial in a Dualit. Super easy since wires have crimped connectors. The replacement part could have been cheaper (~15% of new toaster)
- yoyokinfra 2y ago[flagged]
- seu 2y agoMy toaster broke a week ago. I tried repairing it and found out exactly what the post says: almost impossible without breaking it (or seriously bending parts just to take them apart). After realizing that I wouldn't be able to, I decided to buy a used one, but couldn't find any on offer around my area that looked in good enough shape. Ended up paying 25€ for a new one, which will arrive by post any time soon. I find the whole experience extremely unsatisfying and would love more of this (repairable and self-assembly-able electric appliances).
- ddmf 2y agoHowdee doodilly doo! It's begun.
- nopelynopington 2y agoIt's a fantastic idea and I love the concept of user assembly and repair of household appliances. I think the author has done something wonderful and thoughtful here. However, I think a toaster is probably the least complex and least risky kitchen appliance. There are quite a few kitchen appliances that I would not feel comfortable using if I had assembled them myself. Anything with spinning blades for example. Also I don't think anyone should be assembling a flat pack microwave, where doing it wrong could end in radiation leakage. But still, it's a great idea for less risky things. I look forward to open source hair dryers. Those things burn out in no time
- jeffreygoesto 2y agoSimilar idea for a grill https://boxgrill.de/ https://boxgrill.de/
- fnord77 2y agoI don't understand. Toasters go bad regularly? I am using a Krups toaster I bought in 1995. I guess I should get it a birthday cake.
- account42 2y agoI guess feeding the toaster a cake is one way to break it.
- titchard 2y agoThis reminds me of this book I read a few years back -https://www.thomasthwaites.com/the-toaster-project/ https://www.thomasthwaites.com/the-toaster-project/ How much work actually goes into the cheapest toaster the chap works to make every element from scratch into a toaster.
- DrNosferatu 2y agoA TV and/or video projector would also be a great target for flat packing!
- pjc50 2y ago.. have I missed something, because TVs are already the flattest consumer durable that isn't, say, flooring?
- DrNosferatu 2y agoThe idea is to make reparable and part of the circular economy.
- Dylan16807 2y agoYou could split a TV into a couple parts, but I'm skeptical about how much that would improve repairability over the status quo. If you're able to fix those parts, you can get the TV open. Getting some manufacturers to use standardized control boards and power supplies, and listing them in the spec sheet, would do a lot more than any ease of access.
- account42 2y agoBeing able to get the panels+frame separately from the control boards would be great. Doubt it's really practical though.
- juliangmp 2y agoHonestly I would buy that. The design just looks cool.
- dirkc 2y agoI find it incredibly frustrating if something breaks and my experience from attempting to repair it is that it's impossible to disassemble. I'm currently sitting with a broken coffee grinder that I can take apart with a brick :( I frequently dream of openly licensed appliances that are repairable!
- zombot 2y agoWhat is "Flatpack" then? https://haleystrategic.com/flatpack https://haleystrategic.com/flatpack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatpack_(electronics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatpack_(electronics) I'm clueless.
- socksy 2y agoAssuming this comment is made in good faith, it's referring to the fact that it can be delivered in a "flat package", so to speak, and has to be assembled by the customer. Flat being a relative term, rather than a specific width. This is the relevant wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ready-to-assemble_furniture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ready-to-assemble_furniture
- Freak_NL 2y agoAlso see: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/flatpack https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/flatpack (First sense.) It's a fairly common word in English.
- jjice 2y agoThe concept of things like this is excellent, and I don't think that even at massive scale that you could get the average consumer to go along with it, unfortunately. Even if this thing is 30% more expensive than a non-repairable toaster, I bet many consumers would pick the cheaper one, despite it probably not being the long term financially optimal decision. There are valid reasons for it, but even people with means would skip over this, I'd imagine. I know so many people in my life that can afford the better quality version of something, but instead opt for the cheaper, shittier version. When the shitty one dies, they get a new shitty one. I think it comes down to the short term impact of cost,which is a valid choice if the cost is the main constraint currently, but I repeatedly see this even in cases where the additional cost isn't an issue. My ranting aside, this is an incredibly cool project and I'd love things like this in my life. Partially for the fact it's repairable and better for the environment, but partially because it's just neat to have a modular version of your household appliances.
- 8bitsrule 2y ago>I know so many people in my life that can afford the better quality version of something, but instead opt for the cheaper, shittier version. When the shitty one dies, they get a new shitty one. Where I once lived in the midwest this was called the 'Kame-apart mentality'. But I don't why this toaster can't cost more or less the same, and it comes with that non-purchasable accessory, bragging rights.
- modriano 2y ago> Even if this thing is 30% more expensive than a non-repairable toaster, I bet many consumers would pick the cheaper one, despite it probably not being the long term financially optimal decision. Toasters are so cheap that I can't imagine repairing them could be cost effective (ie "financially optimal") unless you assign no value to your time. A new, good-enough toaster costs in the ballpark of $30. I love taking things apart and fixing them, but if the repair involves figuring out the part I have to order or soldering anything, it will take far more than $30 of my time. This kind of project is for people who love to tinker. The economics do not make sense.
- 2y ago
- lostlogin 2y agoThis has me thinking of the guy who made a toaster from scratch. ‘Made’, as in, made the wires etc. https://www.thomasthwaites.com/the-toaster-project/ https://www.thomasthwaites.com/the-toaster-project/ https://gizmodo.com/one-mans-nearly-impossible-quest-to-make-a-toaster-from-5794368 https://gizmodo.com/one-mans-nearly-impossible-quest-to-make...
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]