5 ms·

Should they have paid him wages for all his time and effort? On the one hand, people should get compensation for their labor, especially since he's probably sa

Should they have paid him wages for all his time and effort? On the one hand, people should get compensation for their labor, especially since he's probably saving the healthcare system from having to do more-expensive/less-effective interventions. On the other hand, being treated like an employee sucks, so maybe it's for the best. Where I live, blood centers take the middle road by giving us rewards-points we can exchange for gift cards, but that adds the complication of having to manage gift cards.

bangaladore 2y ago
> Blood donors are not compensated financially under Australian law. This is something I find hard to agree with. I understand banning say selling of body parts (even your own). But blood / plasma?
- chneu 2y ago
  As a lifelong donor, 10+ gallons, I don't think we should be paid for blood. It takes just a lil bit of time. Banning payment avoids a ton of issues and overhead. Downside is less people donate, but I don't think $10 would change that much.
  - tiluha 2y ago
    In Germany you get to eat from a tasty assortment of food after donating. When going with friends it makes for a nice little event. Fair deal
    - chneu 2y ago
      I tend to donate at churches and community centers because the food is more often homemade. Chatting with them old ladies is great. The red cross also has their "rewards" program but it's nonsense stuff like water bottles. I think you can exchange points for Amazon gift cards. Like $15/year.
    - Lev1a 2y ago
      When I previously donated blood at the DRK, not only did I always get a Bockwurst&Brötchen along with a selection of beverages (water, cola, coffee, tea, etc.) but also a little gift bag containing a variety of little food and drink items, like a banana, an apple, little bottles/packets of fruit juice, (fruit/chocolate/etc.) joghurt cups, all in all maybe ~5-7€ worth.
      - matsemann 2y ago
        In Norway we get wine glasses or Moomin cups. Most homes I've been in have a sizeable collection of those cups.
        chneu 2y ago
        Oh wow I had no idea what moomin cups were. They're pretty adorable. That's fun.
    - renewiltord 2y ago
      Seems incredibly unethical to exploit starving people by feeding them for selling their body. Horrible stuff. But from the nation that brought us our greatest human experimentation regimen, hardly surprising.
      - pyth0 2y ago
        > But from the nation that brought us our greatest human experimentation regimen, hardly surprising. This is not a fair judgement in this situation. I think money is a far more perverse incentive for donating blood than snacks. Also the snacks are more about helping people increase their blood sugar after giving blood than incentivizing them.
      - chneu 2y ago
        Lol it's cookies and juice. Calm down. Nobody is donating blood trying to stay fed.
      - nucleardog 2y ago
        > But from the nation that brought us our greatest human experimentation regimen, hardly surprising. To assume good faith here I'd have to assume wherever you are you've never donated blood? When you donate blood you've lost a pint of fluids. They give you something to drink to work on rehydrating. The sugar in the juice and the sugary snacks are to help give you a bit of energy since... you just lost a pint of blood. Which is to say this is pretty standard everywhere. It's not payment. The ice pack after my vasectomy wasn't "payment for population control". It's healthcare.
    - ddingus 2y ago
      I like that! Seems very reasonable and fun too. Any downsides?
      - tiluha 2y ago
        One time they didn't get the needle in smoothly and it hurt a little bit, but it really wasn't too bad
    - ShinTakuya 2y ago
      That's the case in Australia too although the quality of the food varies.
    - wkat4242 2y ago
      Here too, it's also to get your nutrients and blood pressure back up afaik. Not just as a reward.
  - scarfaceneo 2y ago
    In Brazil you get a day off work every year to donate. Which I think is a good compromise.
  - ekaryotic 2y ago
    I think the issue is the difference between positive and negative reinforcement. positive reinforcement with money may attract tainted blood, but negative might not, unless you count blood borne diseases which predispose to suicide. Suppose you were to legalize euthanasia for blood donors. i.e. you could earn the right to assisted suicide after 5 years of regular donations, no questions asked. That way the religious lobby gets shut up because the blood is maintaining the population rate and the chronic mentally ill like myself can have a comfortable exit.
  - boredatoms 2y ago
    A 0.1% reduction on annual taxes would be great and dissuade most who just need a quick dollar
- j_timberlake 2y ago
  The dark truth is that the kind of people who are desperate for that money are also much more likely to have tainted blood from illegal drugs, dirty needles, and STDs. The bureaucracy plays it safe by just banning payment, even though people like James aren't in that risk category.
  - ksenzee 2y ago
    But every country that bans payment turns around and buys plasma from countries that don’t. So it doesn’t make their plasma supply one bit safer. All it does is make plasma-derived products rarer and more expensive.
    - burnished 2y ago
      Might be a demographic difference that explains it. I donated materials when I was a broke college student, wouldn't surprise me if the bulk came from people in similar situations
      - xnyan 2y ago
        This is correct, and is also true for healthy volunteers in clinical trials. I did them when I was a young broke college student, 100% of the healthy volunteers were where what I would consider to be quite poor.
  - victorbjorklund 2y ago
    Better to import it from poorer countries right? Or would you wanna make it illegal to import it too which would result in many dead people?
  - bangaladore 2y ago
    My understanding is all of these cases are tested for. A lifelong blood donor could still get XYZ after donating for 10 years. Now if you are talking about undetectable or uncommon I could understand, but that just shows a fault in the testing process.
crabmusket 2y ago
Here's a look into the situation in Australia https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-07-07/donating-blood-plasma-money-red-cross-supply/103923554 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-07-07/donating-blood-plasma... > Despite making up just 4.2 per cent of the world's population, the United States accounts for around 70 per cent of all the source plasma in the world blood market, according to most analysts. > As it stands, the only countries in the world that are entirely self-sufficient for immunoglobulin are those that offer to pay their plasma donors. > In 2022-23, Australia imported $399.2 million worth of immunoglobulin to make up the shortfall in supplies, buying plasma products at what Mr Cahill calls "world-best prices".
- devnullbrain 2y ago
  There are lower hanging fruit. Last time I tried to give blood in the UK involved waiting 2 months for an appointment and a 3-hour round-trip. They turned me away for a medical reason that was mentioned on the application form. So I drove home: the NHS are more strict than the DVLA.
  - sgerenser 2y ago
    Crazy. Around my area of the U.S., The Blood Connection has mobile blood collection buses that stop regularly at popular shopping centers, office parks, etc. Typically I don’t have to drive more than a few minutes to make a donation. And they’re also one of the ones that gives points redeemable for gift cards.

bangaladore 2y ago

> Blood donors are not compensated financially under Australian law. This is something I find hard to agree with. I understand banning say selling of body parts (even your own). But blood / plasma?

chneu 2y ago
As a lifelong donor, 10+ gallons, I don't think we should be paid for blood. It takes just a lil bit of time. Banning payment avoids a ton of issues and overhead. Downside is less people donate, but I don't think $10 would change that much.
- tiluha 2y ago
  In Germany you get to eat from a tasty assortment of food after donating. When going with friends it makes for a nice little event. Fair deal
  - chneu 2y ago
    I tend to donate at churches and community centers because the food is more often homemade. Chatting with them old ladies is great. The red cross also has their "rewards" program but it's nonsense stuff like water bottles. I think you can exchange points for Amazon gift cards. Like $15/year.
  - Lev1a 2y ago
    When I previously donated blood at the DRK, not only did I always get a Bockwurst&Brötchen along with a selection of beverages (water, cola, coffee, tea, etc.) but also a little gift bag containing a variety of little food and drink items, like a banana, an apple, little bottles/packets of fruit juice, (fruit/chocolate/etc.) joghurt cups, all in all maybe ~5-7€ worth.
    - matsemann 2y ago
      In Norway we get wine glasses or Moomin cups. Most homes I've been in have a sizeable collection of those cups.
      - chneu 2y ago
        Oh wow I had no idea what moomin cups were. They're pretty adorable. That's fun.
  - renewiltord 2y ago
    Seems incredibly unethical to exploit starving people by feeding them for selling their body. Horrible stuff. But from the nation that brought us our greatest human experimentation regimen, hardly surprising.
    - pyth0 2y ago
      > But from the nation that brought us our greatest human experimentation regimen, hardly surprising. This is not a fair judgement in this situation. I think money is a far more perverse incentive for donating blood than snacks. Also the snacks are more about helping people increase their blood sugar after giving blood than incentivizing them.
    - chneu 2y ago
      Lol it's cookies and juice. Calm down. Nobody is donating blood trying to stay fed.
    - nucleardog 2y ago
      > But from the nation that brought us our greatest human experimentation regimen, hardly surprising. To assume good faith here I'd have to assume wherever you are you've never donated blood? When you donate blood you've lost a pint of fluids. They give you something to drink to work on rehydrating. The sugar in the juice and the sugary snacks are to help give you a bit of energy since... you just lost a pint of blood. Which is to say this is pretty standard everywhere. It's not payment. The ice pack after my vasectomy wasn't "payment for population control". It's healthcare.
  - ddingus 2y ago
    I like that! Seems very reasonable and fun too. Any downsides?
    - tiluha 2y ago
      One time they didn't get the needle in smoothly and it hurt a little bit, but it really wasn't too bad
  - ShinTakuya 2y ago
    That's the case in Australia too although the quality of the food varies.
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    Here too, it's also to get your nutrients and blood pressure back up afaik. Not just as a reward.
- scarfaceneo 2y ago
  In Brazil you get a day off work every year to donate. Which I think is a good compromise.
- ekaryotic 2y ago
  I think the issue is the difference between positive and negative reinforcement. positive reinforcement with money may attract tainted blood, but negative might not, unless you count blood borne diseases which predispose to suicide. Suppose you were to legalize euthanasia for blood donors. i.e. you could earn the right to assisted suicide after 5 years of regular donations, no questions asked. That way the religious lobby gets shut up because the blood is maintaining the population rate and the chronic mentally ill like myself can have a comfortable exit.
- boredatoms 2y ago
  A 0.1% reduction on annual taxes would be great and dissuade most who just need a quick dollar
j_timberlake 2y ago
The dark truth is that the kind of people who are desperate for that money are also much more likely to have tainted blood from illegal drugs, dirty needles, and STDs. The bureaucracy plays it safe by just banning payment, even though people like James aren't in that risk category.
- ksenzee 2y ago
  But every country that bans payment turns around and buys plasma from countries that don’t. So it doesn’t make their plasma supply one bit safer. All it does is make plasma-derived products rarer and more expensive.
  - burnished 2y ago
    Might be a demographic difference that explains it. I donated materials when I was a broke college student, wouldn't surprise me if the bulk came from people in similar situations
    - xnyan 2y ago
      This is correct, and is also true for healthy volunteers in clinical trials. I did them when I was a young broke college student, 100% of the healthy volunteers were where what I would consider to be quite poor.
- victorbjorklund 2y ago
  Better to import it from poorer countries right? Or would you wanna make it illegal to import it too which would result in many dead people?
- bangaladore 2y ago
  My understanding is all of these cases are tested for. A lifelong blood donor could still get XYZ after donating for 10 years. Now if you are talking about undetectable or uncommon I could understand, but that just shows a fault in the testing process.

crabmusket 2y ago

Here's a look into the situation in Australia https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-07-07/donating-blood-plasma-money-red-cross-supply/103923554 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-07-07/donating-blood-plasma... > Despite making up just 4.2 per cent of the world's population, the United States accounts for around 70 per cent of all the source plasma in the world blood market, according to most analysts. > As it stands, the only countries in the world that are entirely self-sufficient for immunoglobulin are those that offer to pay their plasma donors. > In 2022-23, Australia imported $399.2 million worth of immunoglobulin to make up the shortfall in supplies, buying plasma products at what Mr Cahill calls "world-best prices".

devnullbrain 2y ago
There are lower hanging fruit. Last time I tried to give blood in the UK involved waiting 2 months for an appointment and a 3-hour round-trip. They turned me away for a medical reason that was mentioned on the application form. So I drove home: the NHS are more strict than the DVLA.
- sgerenser 2y ago
  Crazy. Around my area of the U.S., The Blood Connection has mobile blood collection buses that stop regularly at popular shopping centers, office parks, etc. Typically I don’t have to drive more than a few minutes to make a donation. And they’re also one of the ones that gives points redeemable for gift cards.