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It's generally a myth that government employees are somehow receiving low total compensation and they could do better in the real economy. Here's one governmen

It's generally a myth that government employees are somehow receiving low total compensation and they could do better in the real economy. Here's one government employees providing stats and experiences about what it is like to work for the government: https://www.betonit.ai/p/the-joy-of-government-employment https://www.betonit.ai/p/the-joy-of-government-employment

garrettdreyfus 2y ago
This post says very little and you can look up almost all public salaries.
- atlgator 2y ago
  What good is knowing their salary if you don't know what their skills and experience are? How can you say they would make more in the private sector? You're just trading one set of assertions for another and neither of you have data to back up your claims.
  - unclebucknasty 2y ago
    This report from the CBO is more balanced and accounts for the variables you mentioned (and more). [0] "Compared with private-sector workers, federal workers tend to be older, more educated, and more concentrated in professional occupations. To account for those differences, the Congressional Budget Office limited its comparisons to employees with a set of similar observable characteristics—education, occupation, years of work experience, geographic location, size of employer, veteran status, and certain demographic characteristics (sex, race, ethnicity, marital status, immigration status, and citizenship)—in this report" [0] https://www.cbo.gov/publication/60235 https://www.cbo.gov/publication/60235
  - hnaccount_rng 2y ago
    I mean 18F was essentially "hey you earn ~infinite money selling ads to people. Whenever you grow bored come here, you'll have the same kind of colleagues but get to work making this country work better". So yeah.. they recruited from Silicon Valley and they didn't pull the low achievers
lesuorac 2y ago
> Oh yeah, and I’m a government employee of the state of Virginia I mean this thread is on the federal government not state governments so your link isn't really relevant. Federal government employees cannot make more than the VP ($235,100). So if you know a role that pays more than that it pays less in the federal government. (There is some hand wavey-ness around locale pay and stuff but we're not talking 2x).
- skissane 2y ago
  > Federal government employees cannot make more than the VP ($235,100). So if you know a role that pays more than that it pays less in the federal government. (There is some hand wavey-ness around locale pay and stuff but we're not talking 2x) Medical specialists (certain types thereof) and surgeons employed by the federal government (VA, DOD, etc) commonly earn $3xx,xxx or even $4xx,xxx - which is less than they’d get in the private sector - I’m pretty sure some of the more highly paid ones are getting at least double the VP’s salary (but not all the non-salary perks the VP gets, like a 33 room mansion) VA base salaries max out at $400K, but I believe you can get much higher into the 400s, even into the 500s potentially, with market pay / allowances / etc - https://www.va.gov/OHRM/Pay/2024/PhysicianDentist/PayTables.pdf https://www.va.gov/OHRM/Pay/2024/PhysicianDentist/PayTables....
  - lesuorac 2y ago
    VA Clinicians are exempt from the cap - https://www.veterans.senate.gov/services/files/3512D245-DA89-43ED-A23E-7D24717A4A67 https://www.veterans.senate.gov/services/files/3512D245-DA89...
    - skissane 2y ago
      Not just VA, I also believe DOD civilian physicians DOD and PHS uniformed physicians get base pay per military pay scales, but allowances/bonuses/etc push that significantly higher, although still not as high as civilian pay rates IHS base pay, like VA, maxes out at $400k. I believe this is due to a legal provision that says no federal employee can get more base pay than the President
jmull 2y ago
Well, that post you link to has assertions but no data to back it up. Not sure what you think this shows?
unclebucknasty 2y ago
The linked article reads more like a hit piece with a narrative and omits significant context. Features gems like these: government employment is a blight upon the economy government employment is terrible for society as a whole A more balanced review from the Congressional Budget Office. [0] TLDR; 1. Wages tend to be lower for government employees, but benefits are better, making total compensation more competitive 2. Even with this effect, the higher you go in education, the more likely wages and total comp are lower for government employees [0] https://www.cbo.gov/publication/60235 https://www.cbo.gov/publication/60235
specialp 2y ago
It is exceedingly rare to make over 200k in govt. Most heads of agencies and other high level roles are GS-15 which tops out around 195k What you USED to get in exchange for less salary was stability as government jobs were viewed as less vulnerable to economic cycles and uncertainty. Now that value prop is gone
- t3rabytes 2y ago
  Agency heads can be SES and can make more than GS-15, but the max is still far lower than private sector equivalent.
- toast0 2y ago
  Governent jobs top out on salary, and generally offer a lower salary than similar jobs anyway, but... Government jobs often have nicer health care plans than many corporate plans (but some corporate plans are very nice too). Government jobs are still likely to have a defined benefit pension. Those are potentially a large deferred compensation, that can be hard to evaluate fiscally, but can be an amazing resource. If you can manage to get 20 years of Active Duty military, retirement benefits are pretty good, and there's nothing private sector that is close to that.
  - kyawzazaw 2y ago
    most corporate healthcare plans for techworkers at 18F level will be top notch
wan23 2y ago
The salary cap for most federal employees is $195,200 - that's the max for any level of experience. Big law firms are paying 225,000 for new grads and it goes up quickly from there. The median software engineer salary in the bay area is 260K. There are a lot of careers where a smart and motivated person could instantly be doing better switching from public to private.
- IshKebab 2y ago
  I don't think SF tech pay is a sane benchmark. Presumably those government employees live somewhere more affordable for a start.

garrettdreyfus 2y ago

This post says very little and you can look up almost all public salaries.

atlgator 2y ago
What good is knowing their salary if you don't know what their skills and experience are? How can you say they would make more in the private sector? You're just trading one set of assertions for another and neither of you have data to back up your claims.
- unclebucknasty 2y ago
  This report from the CBO is more balanced and accounts for the variables you mentioned (and more). [0] "Compared with private-sector workers, federal workers tend to be older, more educated, and more concentrated in professional occupations. To account for those differences, the Congressional Budget Office limited its comparisons to employees with a set of similar observable characteristics—education, occupation, years of work experience, geographic location, size of employer, veteran status, and certain demographic characteristics (sex, race, ethnicity, marital status, immigration status, and citizenship)—in this report" [0] https://www.cbo.gov/publication/60235 https://www.cbo.gov/publication/60235
- hnaccount_rng 2y ago
  I mean 18F was essentially "hey you earn ~infinite money selling ads to people. Whenever you grow bored come here, you'll have the same kind of colleagues but get to work making this country work better". So yeah.. they recruited from Silicon Valley and they didn't pull the low achievers

lesuorac 2y ago

> Oh yeah, and I’m a government employee of the state of Virginia I mean this thread is on the federal government not state governments so your link isn't really relevant. Federal government employees cannot make more than the VP ($235,100). So if you know a role that pays more than that it pays less in the federal government. (There is some hand wavey-ness around locale pay and stuff but we're not talking 2x).

skissane 2y ago
> Federal government employees cannot make more than the VP ($235,100). So if you know a role that pays more than that it pays less in the federal government. (There is some hand wavey-ness around locale pay and stuff but we're not talking 2x) Medical specialists (certain types thereof) and surgeons employed by the federal government (VA, DOD, etc) commonly earn $3xx,xxx or even $4xx,xxx - which is less than they’d get in the private sector - I’m pretty sure some of the more highly paid ones are getting at least double the VP’s salary (but not all the non-salary perks the VP gets, like a 33 room mansion) VA base salaries max out at $400K, but I believe you can get much higher into the 400s, even into the 500s potentially, with market pay / allowances / etc - https://www.va.gov/OHRM/Pay/2024/PhysicianDentist/PayTables.pdf https://www.va.gov/OHRM/Pay/2024/PhysicianDentist/PayTables....
- lesuorac 2y ago
  VA Clinicians are exempt from the cap - https://www.veterans.senate.gov/services/files/3512D245-DA89-43ED-A23E-7D24717A4A67 https://www.veterans.senate.gov/services/files/3512D245-DA89...
  - skissane 2y ago
    Not just VA, I also believe DOD civilian physicians DOD and PHS uniformed physicians get base pay per military pay scales, but allowances/bonuses/etc push that significantly higher, although still not as high as civilian pay rates IHS base pay, like VA, maxes out at $400k. I believe this is due to a legal provision that says no federal employee can get more base pay than the President

jmull 2y ago

Well, that post you link to has assertions but no data to back it up. Not sure what you think this shows?

unclebucknasty 2y ago

The linked article reads more like a hit piece with a narrative and omits significant context. Features gems like these: government employment is a blight upon the economy government employment is terrible for society as a whole A more balanced review from the Congressional Budget Office. [0] TLDR; 1. Wages tend to be lower for government employees, but benefits are better, making total compensation more competitive 2. Even with this effect, the higher you go in education, the more likely wages and total comp are lower for government employees [0] https://www.cbo.gov/publication/60235 https://www.cbo.gov/publication/60235

specialp 2y ago

It is exceedingly rare to make over 200k in govt. Most heads of agencies and other high level roles are GS-15 which tops out around 195k What you USED to get in exchange for less salary was stability as government jobs were viewed as less vulnerable to economic cycles and uncertainty. Now that value prop is gone

t3rabytes 2y ago
Agency heads can be SES and can make more than GS-15, but the max is still far lower than private sector equivalent.
toast0 2y ago
Governent jobs top out on salary, and generally offer a lower salary than similar jobs anyway, but... Government jobs often have nicer health care plans than many corporate plans (but some corporate plans are very nice too). Government jobs are still likely to have a defined benefit pension. Those are potentially a large deferred compensation, that can be hard to evaluate fiscally, but can be an amazing resource. If you can manage to get 20 years of Active Duty military, retirement benefits are pretty good, and there's nothing private sector that is close to that.
- kyawzazaw 2y ago
  most corporate healthcare plans for techworkers at 18F level will be top notch

wan23 2y ago

The salary cap for most federal employees is $195,200 - that's the max for any level of experience. Big law firms are paying 225,000 for new grads and it goes up quickly from there. The median software engineer salary in the bay area is 260K. There are a lot of careers where a smart and motivated person could instantly be doing better switching from public to private.

IshKebab 2y ago
I don't think SF tech pay is a sane benchmark. Presumably those government employees live somewhere more affordable for a start.