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> Urban life in China, excluding pandemic times, is better than urban life in the states. What data do you have for this conclusion?
by throwawayq3423 2y ago
> Urban life in China, excluding pandemic times, is better than urban life in the states.
What data do you have for this conclusion?
- mandmandam 2y agoTry YouTube. Just use your eyes.
- throwawayq3423 2y agoI did. When I went to China and left the major cities all I saw was rows of high rises next to train stations with nothing around them. Funny, that's never on YouTube.
- riehwvfbk 2y agoIf you leave major cities in California you see a lot of empty space that's mostly brown-grey dust, with occasional small towns where everyone is very poor and came from Mexico. Your point?
- throwawayq3423 2y agoYes and I see a lot of YouTube videos about all the poverty in California, I see exactly none about the extensive and overwhelming poverty of rural China (and when I mean rural I mean 20 min outside Shanghai). That's the point. And who trying to lie about eliminating poverty in China (or making the US look much worse), and why are people repeating that lie?
- wordofx 2y agoI did. When I lived in China and traveled outside of Shanghai it was eye opening. People living in slums with no running water or toilets. No trains. No buses. No taxis. The nicest people ever but makes you realise that the whole eliminating poverty claim is utter BS.
- the_af 2y agoThey were talking about people with good paying jobs living in big cities, not China in general. There are people living in extreme poverty in first world countries, and rural areas are always different to big cities.
- tokioyoyo 2y agoTop talent, whom the government advices to not to go to the states aren’t living in the slums, or areas where there’s nothingness. They don’t live like in Ordos or something. Meta, OpenAI employees aren’t living in Bakersfield. Google NY employees aren’t living in Clifton or something. Very dumb comparisons, obviously, but when you have a good comp in China, your quality of life is just great. There just isn’t that much of a reason to move. Another note, it's correct that some people want to live in the states. But there's a nuance. From my personal observations, a good chunk of them don't want to live anywhere in the US, but they want the American passport/green card. It's just a hedge for the worst case scenario and to have an escape route if something bad happens. Like life in Tokyo is pretty decent if you're in top percentiles. But most people understand problems (like demographics), however until it becomes an actual issue, it's still preferable to live here.
- chrischen 2y agoApart from public bathrooms being much dirtier on average, they’ve modernized quite a bit. So, you can take me as 1st hand anecdotal evidence.
- the_af 2y agoPublic bathrooms can be disgusting in many first world countries. I wonder if the true mark of civilization will eventually be clean public bathrooms. It cannot be that hard because some select countries have managed to do it. Too few though.
- tokioyoyo 2y agoCultural, if I’ll be honest. Until kids are taught and indoctrinated in school that public cleanliness is net good for everyone, hard to see it change.
- chrischen 2y agoVietnam is arguably less developed than China, but their bathrooms are way cleaner on average.
- the_af 2y agoGood to know. I've heard bad things about public restrooms (from travelers I know) about both China and India, though this information may be outdated. I was worried about Vietnam, but this is encouraging. I always wanted to visit. (Don't worry, I understand what "on average" means, and I also understand it varies from location to location).
- DiogenesKynikos 2y agoPublic bathrooms are getting much better in China. There's been a very noticeable improvement recently, I think tied to a government inspection program.
- chrischen 2y ago
- Spivak 2y agoI think a good chunk of America had their "Soviets seeing an American supermarket" moment on Red Note when they got to see what city life is actually like in China from the perspective of regular people.
- throwawayq3423 2y agoRed Note is Instagram for rich kids. If China managed to frame their upper class as ordinary, good for them. Propaganda win for their regime. Not sure why we are making that mistake here.
- riehwvfbk 2y agoTry actually traveling outside the US. It's eye opening. The rest of the world has been developing and the US has been backsliding. It's impossible not to notice.
- throwawayq3423 2y agoKind of seems like you are avoiding my point, or throwing up a straw man to argue against instead (with a dig at US for good measure). Of course there are more rich people in China today than there were in decades past. That doesn't mean a rich kid of Red Note is good representation of the average Chinese, who is still poorer than the average Mexican, and trending in the wrong direction.
- Spivak 2y agoInstagram is Instagram for rich kids, I know. But like I am ostensibly also a rich kid (probably) by your metric. And I have a very nice looking aesthetic social profile, I know how it translates to what real life is. At this point, that's just basic media literacy.
- throwawayq3423 2y agoYou are missing my point. The average Red Note influencer is not the average Chinese citizen. I guess you could say the same for IG, but not one is holding up rich kids on IG as the typical American.
- klipt 2y agoGreat public transit. Affordable housing. Huge variety of delicious food. Low crime. People who care enough about the social good to wear masks in crowded places during a pandemic.
- throwawayq3423 2y agoCould say the same about Vietnam, or Thailand, or anywhere in SE Asia.
- hustwindmaple1 2y agoHousing is definitely not easily affordable. But the other points are valid.
- janalsncm 2y agoFor top talent it might be.
- throwawayq3423 2y ago"if you are rich, life is good" can be said about anywhere
- wordofx 2y ago600m people in China live in poverty despite claims of the CPC eliminating it. Traveling around China you see this. Showing off main cities is not proof that people don’t live in poverty. Low crime is simply not true. Most crimes are not reported or swept under the rug as local statistics are reported back to the central government and no one wants to look bad. But wow if you have Weibo you can see some pretty horrible stuff daily before it’s deleted. Nothing worse than seeing 2 woman hacked to death with an axe because of road rage. Cheap food in China comes with a lot of trade offs such as quality. Many shops recycle left over hotpot for the following day. Gutter oil is a real thing. Fake meats or meats from other animals is a real thing.
- maxglute 2y ago
- tokioyoyo 2y agoHonestly, no real data just working with a lot of Chinese on a daily basis. It’s not like they don’t talk about their daily economical or political struggles. Everyone weighs pros/cons, and less and less people have been moving out. Pandemic broke their spirit, but from what I’ve heard, the benefits of living in the US are getting slimmer and slimmer every other day.