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Few people need Blu-ray quality, though. The quality offered by streaming services would usually fit on a DVD. Shorter TV show episodes would fit even on a dual

Few people need Blu-ray quality, though. The quality offered by streaming services would usually fit on a DVD. Shorter TV show episodes would fit even on a dual layer CD. We can look at game recording tools to try to understand what a world without DRM might have looked like. Those are able to easily record and encode video at 1080p or 4K on consumer hardware. Uploading that to YouTube or sharing that with friends isn't an issue either.

Dylan16807 2y ago
Dual layer CDs are not a thing but yes you can put a 'half hour' episode on a CD at 3.5-4Mbps and it will look pretty good, better than the average streamed video.
- tim-- 2y ago
  Double Density 1.3 GB CD-RW from Sony: https://www.dpreview.com/articles/5586166218/sonyddcddrive https://www.dpreview.com/articles/5586166218/sonyddcddrive
  - Dylan16807 2y ago
    I will note the existence of that, but I feel comfortable saying that's not actually a CD. Especially since only one drive could ever use it. More importantly, it's still single layer. And compared to the not-fully-compatible 99 minute CD-Rs, they only get an extra 50% space. Not a very impressive format there when burnable DVDs were already out and would obviously drop in price over time. Plus you could get another 14% by using mode 2 with reduced error correction...
dangus 2y ago
> The quality offered by streaming services would usually fit on a DVD Absolutely not. Have you watched modern streaming services lately? I recall when hdtvtest (Vincent) on YouTube tested Apple's 4K quality against 4K Ultra Blu-Rays via Apple TV (formerly iTunes Movies). IIRC the bitrate was about half (~25 Mbps vs 50Mbps) and the difference in visual quality was very difficult to see. Esssentially, he concluded that a high-quality streaming service or online digital movie purchase is pretty much just as good as a 4K Blu-ray. There is absolutely no way you get something anywhere equivalent to a recent Severance episode (4K Dolby Vision Dolby Atmos) that Apple is streaming to you at ~25Mbps onto a DVD. It's also important to note that the average US broadband speed is now quite a lot more respectable than it was back when we were all begging for US home Internet infrastructure to improve. I believe the average home connection is something like 100 Mbps if not better, and streaming services really have no trouble delivering Blu-ray quality 4K video to the average US consumer. Now, obviously, you don't need that level of quality to enjoy the movie, but if that's what piracy is up against you will definitely need a lot of storage to compete with those streaming services that cost a couple of Starbucks coffees per month. I think this is actually a bigger barrier than a lot of people assume. I have personally considered the idea of my own media server but keep getting put off by the fact that I really will need a very large NAS-grade HDD for it. The total hardware cost to get going is roughly equivalent to a multiple years of streaming service fees.
- Dylan16807 2y ago
  > There is absolutely no way you get something anywhere equivalent to a recent Severance episode (4K Dolby Vision Dolby Atmos) that Apple is streaming to you at ~25Mbps onto a DVD. Well first off, what percentage of viewing hours are in 4K? Second, a DVD could store a 54 minute episode at 20Mbps. That's close. And if I found the hdtvtest video you're talking about the bitrate was "between 15 and 25" so it would likely fit as-is. Also, that comparison was seven years ago with Apple using h.265, and today they could use AV1 to get the same quality with 20% fewer bits. Maybe h.266 to be even smaller or better. (If you're interpreting their comment as "with actual DVD encoding", I think you're misreading them. I don't think they're suggesting streaming services are on par with low-noise 480p. And it doesn't fit with the CD comment.)
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- kuschku 2y ago
  > Absolutely not. Have you watched modern streaming services lately? Of course I have - a typical Netflix movie is between 3-6GB. Apple TV is the only one offering higher bitrates (which is why I use it, even though we're an Android/Linux only household, with iTunes running in a VM to buy movies from Apple TV). > There is absolutely no way you get something anywhere equivalent to a recent Severance episode (4K Dolby Vision Dolby Atmos) that Apple is streaming to you at ~25Mbps onto a DVD. Severance episodes, in 2160p with Dolby Vision and DD+/Atmos audio, are 8.3GB-8.7GB each. While you're technically correct, the point remains. > I believe the average home connection is something like 100 Mbps if not better, and streaming services really have no trouble delivering Blu-ray quality 4K video to the average US consumer. A typical 4K UHD bluray has a bandwidth of 95Mbps-120Mbps. A far cry even from the 25Mbps offered by Apple TV, let alone the 6-10Mbps offered by Netflix. > I think this is actually a bigger barrier than a lot of people assume. I have personally considered the idea of my own media server but keep getting put off by the fact that I really will need a very large NAS-grade HDD for it. I have a blu-ray collection, I do not have a blu-ray player. I watch my movies by ripping them to my NAS and playing them from my NVIDIA Shield TV. If you don't do any transcoding on the NAS, you can use an old ThinkCentre or HP Microserver (about $60-$100). If you just rip your own movies from blu-ray, you don't need any redundancy, so you can buy a single 12TB drive for $200. That's about $250-$300 for enough storage for 450 1080p blu-rays or 160 4K UHD blu-rays. The only remaining cost is the content, but usually you don't just watch new releases. Used blu-rays are available at e.g. worldofbooks or rebuy for $5-$15 each.

Dylan16807 2y ago

Dual layer CDs are not a thing but yes you can put a 'half hour' episode on a CD at 3.5-4Mbps and it will look pretty good, better than the average streamed video.

tim-- 2y ago
Double Density 1.3 GB CD-RW from Sony: https://www.dpreview.com/articles/5586166218/sonyddcddrive https://www.dpreview.com/articles/5586166218/sonyddcddrive
- Dylan16807 2y ago
  I will note the existence of that, but I feel comfortable saying that's not actually a CD. Especially since only one drive could ever use it. More importantly, it's still single layer. And compared to the not-fully-compatible 99 minute CD-Rs, they only get an extra 50% space. Not a very impressive format there when burnable DVDs were already out and would obviously drop in price over time. Plus you could get another 14% by using mode 2 with reduced error correction...

dangus 2y ago

> The quality offered by streaming services would usually fit on a DVD Absolutely not. Have you watched modern streaming services lately? I recall when hdtvtest (Vincent) on YouTube tested Apple's 4K quality against 4K Ultra Blu-Rays via Apple TV (formerly iTunes Movies). IIRC the bitrate was about half (~25 Mbps vs 50Mbps) and the difference in visual quality was very difficult to see. Esssentially, he concluded that a high-quality streaming service or online digital movie purchase is pretty much just as good as a 4K Blu-ray. There is absolutely no way you get something anywhere equivalent to a recent Severance episode (4K Dolby Vision Dolby Atmos) that Apple is streaming to you at ~25Mbps onto a DVD. It's also important to note that the average US broadband speed is now quite a lot more respectable than it was back when we were all begging for US home Internet infrastructure to improve. I believe the average home connection is something like 100 Mbps if not better, and streaming services really have no trouble delivering Blu-ray quality 4K video to the average US consumer. Now, obviously, you don't need that level of quality to enjoy the movie, but if that's what piracy is up against you will definitely need a lot of storage to compete with those streaming services that cost a couple of Starbucks coffees per month. I think this is actually a bigger barrier than a lot of people assume. I have personally considered the idea of my own media server but keep getting put off by the fact that I really will need a very large NAS-grade HDD for it. The total hardware cost to get going is roughly equivalent to a multiple years of streaming service fees.

Dylan16807 2y ago
> There is absolutely no way you get something anywhere equivalent to a recent Severance episode (4K Dolby Vision Dolby Atmos) that Apple is streaming to you at ~25Mbps onto a DVD. Well first off, what percentage of viewing hours are in 4K? Second, a DVD could store a 54 minute episode at 20Mbps. That's close. And if I found the hdtvtest video you're talking about the bitrate was "between 15 and 25" so it would likely fit as-is. Also, that comparison was seven years ago with Apple using h.265, and today they could use AV1 to get the same quality with 20% fewer bits. Maybe h.266 to be even smaller or better. (If you're interpreting their comment as "with actual DVD encoding", I think you're misreading them. I don't think they're suggesting streaming services are on par with low-noise 480p. And it doesn't fit with the CD comment.)
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kuschku 2y ago
> Absolutely not. Have you watched modern streaming services lately? Of course I have - a typical Netflix movie is between 3-6GB. Apple TV is the only one offering higher bitrates (which is why I use it, even though we're an Android/Linux only household, with iTunes running in a VM to buy movies from Apple TV). > There is absolutely no way you get something anywhere equivalent to a recent Severance episode (4K Dolby Vision Dolby Atmos) that Apple is streaming to you at ~25Mbps onto a DVD. Severance episodes, in 2160p with Dolby Vision and DD+/Atmos audio, are 8.3GB-8.7GB each. While you're technically correct, the point remains. > I believe the average home connection is something like 100 Mbps if not better, and streaming services really have no trouble delivering Blu-ray quality 4K video to the average US consumer. A typical 4K UHD bluray has a bandwidth of 95Mbps-120Mbps. A far cry even from the 25Mbps offered by Apple TV, let alone the 6-10Mbps offered by Netflix. > I think this is actually a bigger barrier than a lot of people assume. I have personally considered the idea of my own media server but keep getting put off by the fact that I really will need a very large NAS-grade HDD for it. I have a blu-ray collection, I do not have a blu-ray player. I watch my movies by ripping them to my NAS and playing them from my NVIDIA Shield TV. If you don't do any transcoding on the NAS, you can use an old ThinkCentre or HP Microserver (about $60-$100). If you just rip your own movies from blu-ray, you don't need any redundancy, so you can buy a single 12TB drive for $200. That's about $250-$300 for enough storage for 450 1080p blu-rays or 160 4K UHD blu-rays. The only remaining cost is the content, but usually you don't just watch new releases. Used blu-rays are available at e.g. worldofbooks or rebuy for $5-$15 each.