3 ms·

DRM isn't about release groups, and it never was. Actual pirates have a million different methods to capture video. DRM is a panic reaction to VHS, designed to

DRM isn't about release groups, and it never was. Actual pirates have a million different methods to capture video. DRM is a panic reaction to VHS, designed to making copying so inconvenient that casual users won't bother anymore.

bob1029 2y ago
I look at the raw amount of information as a form of deterrent in some cases. Getting a Blu-ray rip to a point where the average Pirate Bay user would be willing to wait for the download takes quite a bit of transcoding work. Not many are interested in maintaining 1:1 50 gigabyte source copies of every film out there.
- Dylan16807 2y ago
  If your connection counts as "broadband" then you can download 50 gigabytes in an hour. Or in other words, you can buffer for less than a minute and start playing. And seeding long enough to not be rude is probably somewhere between a day and a month, so that's a pretty small storage burden.
  - superkuh 2y ago
    One qualifier is that even if a connection counts as "broadband" many national ISP like Comcast (Xfinity) put data transfer limits and 50 GB is 5% of my monthly limit. And if I go over I have to pay $10/50GB in chunks. Not that this matters in the 'downloading' versus 'download then deleting' (streaming) debate. There the amount of data is the same and not having to re-download obviously makes not-streaming the winner. Tangential: when I signed up in 2013 I actually had unlimited data transfer and paid $78/mo. Now in 2025 for the same plan and speeds I pay $113/mo and I have a data cap with fees. Comcast just decided on a whim they would not provide what I signed up for but since they're a megacorp they can. I have filed 2 FCC complaints about this but the FCC doesn't care. I'd switch but Comcast has been given a monopoly on local pole infrastructure and there are literally no other wired options (telco says 3 blocks from the switching center downtown is too far for dsl).
  - throwaway48476 2y ago
    You can download sequentially too.
- kuschku 2y ago
  Few people need Blu-ray quality, though. The quality offered by streaming services would usually fit on a DVD. Shorter TV show episodes would fit even on a dual layer CD. We can look at game recording tools to try to understand what a world without DRM might have looked like. Those are able to easily record and encode video at 1080p or 4K on consumer hardware. Uploading that to YouTube or sharing that with friends isn't an issue either.
  - Dylan16807 2y ago
    Dual layer CDs are not a thing but yes you can put a 'half hour' episode on a CD at 3.5-4Mbps and it will look pretty good, better than the average streamed video.
    - tim-- 2y ago
      Double Density 1.3 GB CD-RW from Sony: https://www.dpreview.com/articles/5586166218/sonyddcddrive https://www.dpreview.com/articles/5586166218/sonyddcddrive
      - Dylan16807 2y ago
        I will note the existence of that, but I feel comfortable saying that's not actually a CD. Especially since only one drive could ever use it. More importantly, it's still single layer. And compared to the not-fully-compatible 99 minute CD-Rs, they only get an extra 50% space. Not a very impressive format there when burnable DVDs were already out and would obviously drop in price over time. Plus you could get another 14% by using mode 2 with reduced error correction...
  - dangus 2y ago
    > The quality offered by streaming services would usually fit on a DVD Absolutely not. Have you watched modern streaming services lately? I recall when hdtvtest (Vincent) on YouTube tested Apple's 4K quality against 4K Ultra Blu-Rays via Apple TV (formerly iTunes Movies). IIRC the bitrate was about half (~25 Mbps vs 50Mbps) and the difference in visual quality was very difficult to see. Esssentially, he concluded that a high-quality streaming service or online digital movie purchase is pretty much just as good as a 4K Blu-ray. There is absolutely no way you get something anywhere equivalent to a recent Severance episode (4K Dolby Vision Dolby Atmos) that Apple is streaming to you at ~25Mbps onto a DVD. It's also important to note that the average US broadband speed is now quite a lot more respectable than it was back when we were all begging for US home Internet infrastructure to improve. I believe the average home connection is something like 100 Mbps if not better, and streaming services really have no trouble delivering Blu-ray quality 4K video to the average US consumer. Now, obviously, you don't need that level of quality to enjoy the movie, but if that's what piracy is up against you will definitely need a lot of storage to compete with those streaming services that cost a couple of Starbucks coffees per month. I think this is actually a bigger barrier than a lot of people assume. I have personally considered the idea of my own media server but keep getting put off by the fact that I really will need a very large NAS-grade HDD for it. The total hardware cost to get going is roughly equivalent to a multiple years of streaming service fees.

bob1029 2y ago

I look at the raw amount of information as a form of deterrent in some cases. Getting a Blu-ray rip to a point where the average Pirate Bay user would be willing to wait for the download takes quite a bit of transcoding work. Not many are interested in maintaining 1:1 50 gigabyte source copies of every film out there.

Dylan16807 2y ago
If your connection counts as "broadband" then you can download 50 gigabytes in an hour. Or in other words, you can buffer for less than a minute and start playing. And seeding long enough to not be rude is probably somewhere between a day and a month, so that's a pretty small storage burden.
- superkuh 2y ago
  One qualifier is that even if a connection counts as "broadband" many national ISP like Comcast (Xfinity) put data transfer limits and 50 GB is 5% of my monthly limit. And if I go over I have to pay $10/50GB in chunks. Not that this matters in the 'downloading' versus 'download then deleting' (streaming) debate. There the amount of data is the same and not having to re-download obviously makes not-streaming the winner. Tangential: when I signed up in 2013 I actually had unlimited data transfer and paid $78/mo. Now in 2025 for the same plan and speeds I pay $113/mo and I have a data cap with fees. Comcast just decided on a whim they would not provide what I signed up for but since they're a megacorp they can. I have filed 2 FCC complaints about this but the FCC doesn't care. I'd switch but Comcast has been given a monopoly on local pole infrastructure and there are literally no other wired options (telco says 3 blocks from the switching center downtown is too far for dsl).
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  You can download sequentially too.
kuschku 2y ago
Few people need Blu-ray quality, though. The quality offered by streaming services would usually fit on a DVD. Shorter TV show episodes would fit even on a dual layer CD. We can look at game recording tools to try to understand what a world without DRM might have looked like. Those are able to easily record and encode video at 1080p or 4K on consumer hardware. Uploading that to YouTube or sharing that with friends isn't an issue either.
- Dylan16807 2y ago
  Dual layer CDs are not a thing but yes you can put a 'half hour' episode on a CD at 3.5-4Mbps and it will look pretty good, better than the average streamed video.
  - tim-- 2y ago
    Double Density 1.3 GB CD-RW from Sony: https://www.dpreview.com/articles/5586166218/sonyddcddrive https://www.dpreview.com/articles/5586166218/sonyddcddrive
    - Dylan16807 2y ago
      I will note the existence of that, but I feel comfortable saying that's not actually a CD. Especially since only one drive could ever use it. More importantly, it's still single layer. And compared to the not-fully-compatible 99 minute CD-Rs, they only get an extra 50% space. Not a very impressive format there when burnable DVDs were already out and would obviously drop in price over time. Plus you could get another 14% by using mode 2 with reduced error correction...
- dangus 2y ago
  > The quality offered by streaming services would usually fit on a DVD Absolutely not. Have you watched modern streaming services lately? I recall when hdtvtest (Vincent) on YouTube tested Apple's 4K quality against 4K Ultra Blu-Rays via Apple TV (formerly iTunes Movies). IIRC the bitrate was about half (~25 Mbps vs 50Mbps) and the difference in visual quality was very difficult to see. Esssentially, he concluded that a high-quality streaming service or online digital movie purchase is pretty much just as good as a 4K Blu-ray. There is absolutely no way you get something anywhere equivalent to a recent Severance episode (4K Dolby Vision Dolby Atmos) that Apple is streaming to you at ~25Mbps onto a DVD. It's also important to note that the average US broadband speed is now quite a lot more respectable than it was back when we were all begging for US home Internet infrastructure to improve. I believe the average home connection is something like 100 Mbps if not better, and streaming services really have no trouble delivering Blu-ray quality 4K video to the average US consumer. Now, obviously, you don't need that level of quality to enjoy the movie, but if that's what piracy is up against you will definitely need a lot of storage to compete with those streaming services that cost a couple of Starbucks coffees per month. I think this is actually a bigger barrier than a lot of people assume. I have personally considered the idea of my own media server but keep getting put off by the fact that I really will need a very large NAS-grade HDD for it. The total hardware cost to get going is roughly equivalent to a multiple years of streaming service fees.