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I don't disagree with the idea that Apple may have peaked and started turning the corner into anti-consumer behavior. That said, even as an Apple detractor, I

by BowBun 2y ago

I don't disagree with the idea that Apple may have peaked and started turning the corner into anti-consumer behavior. That said, even as an Apple detractor, I don't think it's fair to say they haven't continue driving innovation since 2010. Off the top of my head: Apple Watch, the M-series chips, and even to a lesser degree AirTags are all big technical innovations that are now entrenched in our societies. Yes pieces of this all existed before, but so did the pieces of the iPhone. I do think they tend to put out the best-executed products when they see it through (not sure if that held up with Vision Pro since I never tried it).

goosedragons 2y ago
I think a lot of Apple's success with the Apple Watch and Airtag is that they didn't make it a fair fight. Competing products are deliberately hobbled because they just can't do what Apple does because Apple doesn't allow it. That's not innovation. M-series are I think overhyped, they aren't bad and they certainly are better than the old Intel CPUs they were shipping. AMD has been nipping at their heels despite not always having the latest and greatest foundry nodes at their fingertips.
- Jtsummers 2y ago
  Android devices grossly out number iOS devices. If Samsung, Google, Sony, HTC, etc. wanted to make their own watch or tag system they could have. Even better, Garmin at least has figured out how to make their watches work with both iOS and Android so cross-compatibility is possible and greatly expands the potential market share. Apple's Apple Watch only works with iOS, restricting its total market share to approximately the same as the number of iOS devices in active use (approximate because you can activate the watch for other people in your family but without an appropriate iDevice).
  - bitpush 2y ago
    How did a comment about Apple restricting competition become about Apples market share? That's not the point here. Apple didn't allow fair competition for alternate peripherals (watch etc) and it has got nothing to do with iPhones market share.
    - Jtsummers 2y ago
      Smart watches other than Apple's work with Apple's phones (I gave the example of Garmin). How is that restricting competition? And even if Apple is restricting competition (by somehow not allowing Garmin and others to work with their phones even though they do...), they're restricting themselves to about 30% of global market share for smart watches since their watches do not work with Android devices. So if they're restricting competition, then they're doing it in a way which limits their ability to capture the larger market with their watches since if anyone makes a decent competitor they can sell it to the billions of people who aren't using Apple's phones. The fact that no one has made a compelling alternative to capture that larger global market that Apple is ignoring seems like an issue with the competitors, not with Apple.
      - goosedragons 2y ago
        Sure, Garmin devices work with iOS but a bunch of features don't like notification replies. It's not that 3rd party smartwatches don't work, it's that they are deliberately knee-capped by Apple to make the Apple Watch seem better. And come on, in most developed countries iOS is like half the market easily.
creer 2y ago
> I don't think it's fair to say they haven't continue driving innovation since 2010 I don't know about "driving" but that's the norm for Apple. Certainly pitched in - and from that point of view, it's not fair to only count successes. So Vision Pro of course belongs to the list: Apple was not the only company working on something in that general direction but a ton of work went into it. Same for the car effort: just because we are not seeing it doesn't mean it wasn't done and the lessons learned by a massive pile of engineers. And this continues with a pile of software feature efforts (payment?) and fights for users' rights (encryption?). With its share of unfortunate directions (CSAM?). Just because a project is not hardware and a smashing success doesn't mean it didn't get done.

by BowBun 2y ago

goosedragons 2y ago

I think a lot of Apple's success with the Apple Watch and Airtag is that they didn't make it a fair fight. Competing products are deliberately hobbled because they just can't do what Apple does because Apple doesn't allow it. That's not innovation. M-series are I think overhyped, they aren't bad and they certainly are better than the old Intel CPUs they were shipping. AMD has been nipping at their heels despite not always having the latest and greatest foundry nodes at their fingertips.

Jtsummers 2y ago
Android devices grossly out number iOS devices. If Samsung, Google, Sony, HTC, etc. wanted to make their own watch or tag system they could have. Even better, Garmin at least has figured out how to make their watches work with both iOS and Android so cross-compatibility is possible and greatly expands the potential market share. Apple's Apple Watch only works with iOS, restricting its total market share to approximately the same as the number of iOS devices in active use (approximate because you can activate the watch for other people in your family but without an appropriate iDevice).
- bitpush 2y ago
  How did a comment about Apple restricting competition become about Apples market share? That's not the point here. Apple didn't allow fair competition for alternate peripherals (watch etc) and it has got nothing to do with iPhones market share.
  - Jtsummers 2y ago
    Smart watches other than Apple's work with Apple's phones (I gave the example of Garmin). How is that restricting competition? And even if Apple is restricting competition (by somehow not allowing Garmin and others to work with their phones even though they do...), they're restricting themselves to about 30% of global market share for smart watches since their watches do not work with Android devices. So if they're restricting competition, then they're doing it in a way which limits their ability to capture the larger market with their watches since if anyone makes a decent competitor they can sell it to the billions of people who aren't using Apple's phones. The fact that no one has made a compelling alternative to capture that larger global market that Apple is ignoring seems like an issue with the competitors, not with Apple.
    - goosedragons 2y ago
      Sure, Garmin devices work with iOS but a bunch of features don't like notification replies. It's not that 3rd party smartwatches don't work, it's that they are deliberately knee-capped by Apple to make the Apple Watch seem better. And come on, in most developed countries iOS is like half the market easily.

creer 2y ago

> I don't think it's fair to say they haven't continue driving innovation since 2010 I don't know about "driving" but that's the norm for Apple. Certainly pitched in - and from that point of view, it's not fair to only count successes. So Vision Pro of course belongs to the list: Apple was not the only company working on something in that general direction but a ton of work went into it. Same for the car effort: just because we are not seeing it doesn't mean it wasn't done and the lessons learned by a massive pile of engineers. And this continues with a pile of software feature efforts (payment?) and fights for users' rights (encryption?). With its share of unfortunate directions (CSAM?). Just because a project is not hardware and a smashing success doesn't mean it didn't get done.