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>Depending on how you count, there are just two to four builders of large commercial aircraft (Airbus, Boeing, Embraer, and now COMAC). Where is Russian Sukhoi
by drysine 2y ago
>Depending on how you count, there are just two to four builders of large commercial aircraft (Airbus, Boeing, Embraer, and now COMAC).
Where is Russian Sukhoi?
- D_Alex 2y agoIt is part of UAC, along with Ilyushin and Yakovlev.
- drysine 2y agoStill not in the list)
- D_Alex 2y agoYes, and they are ahead of COMAC in the number of aircraft produced. It will be interesting to see if UAC emerges as a serious competitor to Boeing and Airbus (and COMAC) in the near future.
- drysine 2y agoYeah, waiting to see if the current iteration of PD-14 engine[0] is finally up to the task. Two years ago UAC tested them and found to be in the need of improvement. [0] https://rostec.ru/media/news/rostekh-peredal-partiyu-seriynykh-aviadvigateley-pd-14-dlya-ms-21/ https://rostec.ru/media/news/rostekh-peredal-partiyu-seriyny...
- D_Alex 2y agoYep... it is hard to build a competitive jet engine. If the Russians manage to do this, it would be another example of the stupidity of the sanctions. I bet COMAC is cheering them on too.
- notahacker 2y agoSeems unlikely. They had their window of opportunity when they had an active Western marketing arm, Russia wasn't a sanctioned nation, COMAC was barely getting started and the early reports of the Superjet were quite positive. Suffice to say the airlines that passed on the opportunity aren't regretting it and the couple that bought them did regret it.
- D_Alex 2y agoI disagree with you about the effect of sanctions. Their result was that airliners became a strategic priority rather than something Russia was happy to buy overseas forever. Furthermore, the sanctions demonstrated that there is sovereign risk associated with purchasing Western airliners. Finally, IIRC the airline's regrets were largely related to the poor early reliability of the French-built parts, specifically combustors, for the Superjet engines. It remains to be seen how the new Russian engines will perform.
- notahacker 2y agoDemand for Russian built airlines in Russia /= them being competitive with Boeing and Airbus. The USSR built airliners as a strategic priority for the domestic market for decades: their track record of being terrible was one of the reasons behind scepticism of the Superjet And airlines in most countries have far more to worry about buying aircraft whose maintenance depends on a faraway pariah state and that are not certified in Europe than they do about US sanctions targeting them. And even if they do, still not necessarily more difficult to circumvent the sanctions (as Mahan Air did with wet leased 747s) and access a worldwide parts supply and MRO market than rely on being able to maintain and sell on your Russian aircraft at reasonable price and timeliness... It would also be surprising if the new Russian engines were competitive on performance with new Western engines, and likewise with other components they've had to switch to domestic manufacture for.
- drysine 2y ago>faraway pariah state By that you mean a state sanctioned by the US and the EU, which together comprise about 10% of the world's population.
- Cyph0n 2y agoBombardier until recently was another, although it was taken over (?) by Airbus.
- dredmorbius 2y agoHuh, I'd not heard that. The Wikipedia page on Bombardier is ... not especially clear about present ownership, though apparently debt incurred developing the CSeries (Airbus 220) aircraft lead to spin-outs of much of the core business, including large shares (50% and then another acquisition) of CSeries ops by Airbus. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_Inc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_Inc.> The top of the article seems to portray Bombardier as an independent company, other bits not so much.
- Cyph0n 2y agoMy recollection is that Boeing essentially had insane tariffs applied on US imports of Bombardier commercial aircraft after Delta made a large order & was preparing for delivery. Shortly thereafter, Airbus came in and acquired a controlling stake of Bombardier Aviation, took over the CS planes, and agreed to manufacture them in the US (Airbus manufacturing is in the EU). The way it played out seemed to me as if Boeing and Airbus conspired to kill off a viable competitor after they saw how well received the CS100 and CS300 were. This is all on top of the overall financial troubles the company was facing. I could be entirely off the mark, so I will let those more knowledgeable chime in from here.
- dredmorbius 2y agoI like your take, FWIW.
- samat 2y agoCS300 are the best aircraft I have ever flown in. A lot of room, very good air inside, very nice design aesthetic.
- ianburrell 2y agoBombardier makes only private jets now. The C-series was sold to Airbus and is now the 220.. Q-Series turboprops were sold to De Havilland. The CRJ-series regional jets were sold to Mitsubishi. De Havilland was owned by Bombardier, but Viking Air bought De Havilland's designs and Dash 8, and renamed the holding company De Havilland.