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~30% of voting age Americans voted for the current president. ~29% voted for the other option.

by ryoshu 2y ago

Sabinus 2y ago
Look we're all grateful for the Americans that do care about The Alliance but we've seen the political trends in America and it looks bad. You can't elect Trump twice and say it doesn't represent America. Trump's politics isn't going away. The Democrats allowed 'radical' social change to dictate the party platform and didn't implement enough reforms to please the average citizen. Until they do or Trump makes massive blunders we don't have a hope that the old America is coming back.
- hypothesis 2y ago
  It’s a grave mistake to assume that some “old” America is ever coming back.
- bloomingkales 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - FirmwareBurner 2y ago
    [flagged]
- wwweston 2y ago
  Everything you're saying about the international trust American voters have betrayed and thrown away is pretty reasonable. But this: > The Democrats allowed 'radical' social change to dictate the party platform and didn't implement enough reforms to please the average citizen. is false. Democratic policy has done plenty to benefit average citizens, in a long tradition (at one point bipartisan) going back to WW2. And it's never been centered around any idea more "radical" than taking seriously the words of the declaration of independence about equality, inalienable rights, and life liberty and the pursuit of happiness, even for people who are doing something others think is weird. It's even pretty clear that Democratic policies have strong electoral popularity: https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/50802-harris-vs-trump-on-the-issues-whose-policies-do-voters-prefer https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/50802-harris-vs-t... https://www.dataforprogress.org/insights/2024/8/22/harris-can-win-swing-voters-by-emphasizing-populist-economic-policies-and-protecting-freedoms https://www.dataforprogress.org/insights/2024/8/22/harris-ca... But "swing" voters (assuming they really exist in any form as popularly understood) among others are often not really clear on who supports the policies they prefer. My suspicion is that this comes from Democratic underinvestment and poor investments in media and culture while their opposition has been doing this aggressively, which allows others to define them as radical.
xico 2y ago
When people choose not to have their vote represented, for whatever reason, when the outcome was so clear in advance, then there is practically, legally, morally and philosophically no distinction between not voting and voting for Trump.
dangjc 2y ago
We (Americans) can’t be relied on. Yeah most Americans are still supportive of Europe but our political system produces whipsaw foreign policy. The end result of all this is America is weakened on the global stage as our allies lose faith in us and start working around us. Why should Europeans boycott China, sanction Iran, support Israel, isolate Cuba, intervene in another Iraq? These are American priorities, not European ones.
- etc-hosts 2y ago
  The US has successfully created a system that integrates the US economy with Europe, limiting Europe's choices and greatly enriching the US for decades... and then last week JD Vance in Munich yelled at everyone and claimed the EU was somehow stealing money from the US. A++ gaslighting, great job.
  - hnaccount_rng 2y ago
    The really funny thing is: Vance is ~right that the Europeans "steal money" from the US. What I do not get is why that is a bad thing. A "trade" nowadays basically always involves one side getting something tangible that they want, be that goods or services or commodities. And the other side getting something intangible claims or money. If I can get something inherently valuable for essentially nothing but an empty promise? That's an extremely comfortable position to be in..
- reissbaker 2y ago
  Because they are a part of NATO and have basically zero military to speak of on their own. There's a reason all of their proposed plans to support Ukraine include an American backstop: because they can't stand on their own and have relied on US military spending for decades to prop themselves up. Ukraine is not a member of NATO and has no significant mutual defense treaty with America. We intervened nonetheless, to protect Europe. I think we should continue intervening, but I also think it's ludicrous for the EU to threaten to not support America, when they've allowed their military infrastructure to rot away at our expense.
  - 2y ago
LadyCailin 2y ago
And how many were too apathetic to even bother voting?
vladgur 2y ago
Thats not an insignificant number. This election had the second highest turn out in recorded history(2020 was slightly higher) https://ballotpedia.org/Election_results,_2024:_Analysis_of_voter_turnout_in_the_2024_general_election https://ballotpedia.org/Election_results,_2024:_Analysis_of_...
grandempire 2y ago
This is normal turn out. Anyway voting is not about recording a talley for every 18+ year old human with a pulse. It’s citizens selecting a leader and policy from their community. Getting your people out to vote is part of the event.

~30% of voting age Americans voted for the current president. ~29% voted for the other option.

by ryoshu 2y ago

~30% of voting age Americans voted for the current president. ~29% voted for the other option.

Look we're all grateful for the Americans that do care about The Alliance but we've seen the political trends in America and it looks bad. You can't elect Trump twice and say it doesn't represent America. Trump's politics isn't going away. The Democrats allowed 'radical' social change to dictate the party platform and didn't implement enough reforms to please the average citizen. Until they do or Trump makes massive blunders we don't have a hope that the old America is coming back.

hypothesis 2y ago
It’s a grave mistake to assume that some “old” America is ever coming back.
bloomingkales 2y ago
[flagged]
- FirmwareBurner 2y ago
  [flagged]
wwweston 2y ago
Everything you're saying about the international trust American voters have betrayed and thrown away is pretty reasonable. But this: > The Democrats allowed 'radical' social change to dictate the party platform and didn't implement enough reforms to please the average citizen. is false. Democratic policy has done plenty to benefit average citizens, in a long tradition (at one point bipartisan) going back to WW2. And it's never been centered around any idea more "radical" than taking seriously the words of the declaration of independence about equality, inalienable rights, and life liberty and the pursuit of happiness, even for people who are doing something others think is weird. It's even pretty clear that Democratic policies have strong electoral popularity: https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/50802-harris-vs-trump-on-the-issues-whose-policies-do-voters-prefer https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/50802-harris-vs-t... https://www.dataforprogress.org/insights/2024/8/22/harris-can-win-swing-voters-by-emphasizing-populist-economic-policies-and-protecting-freedoms https://www.dataforprogress.org/insights/2024/8/22/harris-ca... But "swing" voters (assuming they really exist in any form as popularly understood) among others are often not really clear on who supports the policies they prefer. My suspicion is that this comes from Democratic underinvestment and poor investments in media and culture while their opposition has been doing this aggressively, which allows others to define them as radical.

xico 2y ago

When people choose not to have their vote represented, for whatever reason, when the outcome was so clear in advance, then there is practically, legally, morally and philosophically no distinction between not voting and voting for Trump.

dangjc 2y ago

We (Americans) can’t be relied on. Yeah most Americans are still supportive of Europe but our political system produces whipsaw foreign policy. The end result of all this is America is weakened on the global stage as our allies lose faith in us and start working around us. Why should Europeans boycott China, sanction Iran, support Israel, isolate Cuba, intervene in another Iraq? These are American priorities, not European ones.

etc-hosts 2y ago
The US has successfully created a system that integrates the US economy with Europe, limiting Europe's choices and greatly enriching the US for decades... and then last week JD Vance in Munich yelled at everyone and claimed the EU was somehow stealing money from the US. A++ gaslighting, great job.
- hnaccount_rng 2y ago
  The really funny thing is: Vance is ~right that the Europeans "steal money" from the US. What I do not get is why that is a bad thing. A "trade" nowadays basically always involves one side getting something tangible that they want, be that goods or services or commodities. And the other side getting something intangible claims or money. If I can get something inherently valuable for essentially nothing but an empty promise? That's an extremely comfortable position to be in..
reissbaker 2y ago
Because they are a part of NATO and have basically zero military to speak of on their own. There's a reason all of their proposed plans to support Ukraine include an American backstop: because they can't stand on their own and have relied on US military spending for decades to prop themselves up. Ukraine is not a member of NATO and has no significant mutual defense treaty with America. We intervened nonetheless, to protect Europe. I think we should continue intervening, but I also think it's ludicrous for the EU to threaten to not support America, when they've allowed their military infrastructure to rot away at our expense.
- 2y ago

LadyCailin 2y ago

And how many were too apathetic to even bother voting?

vladgur 2y ago

Thats not an insignificant number. This election had the second highest turn out in recorded history(2020 was slightly higher) https://ballotpedia.org/Election_results,_2024:_Analysis_of_voter_turnout_in_the_2024_general_election https://ballotpedia.org/Election_results,_2024:_Analysis_of_...

grandempire 2y ago

This is normal turn out. Anyway voting is not about recording a talley for every 18+ year old human with a pulse. It’s citizens selecting a leader and policy from their community. Getting your people out to vote is part of the event.