7 ms·

Why is parity the goal? The US is on a different continent, and also (theoretically) defending US allies in the Pacific, and middle east. It's Europe's backya

Why is parity the goal? The US is on a different continent, and also (theoretically) defending US allies in the Pacific, and middle east. It's Europe's backyard. Europe should be contributing 5x what the US contributes. They can afford it. It's the richest (per-capita) continent on earth. They outproduce Russia 5-10x. I have been a strong supporter of US support to Ukraine and I think this meeting was gross and unbecoming, but Europeans need to wake up and understand that this is a problem they can, and have to, solve, not just as a supporting player to the US. "We did as much as the US" doesn't matter. Give enough support to solve the problem. You have the economy and can, if you make even minor commitment — 5% of GDP would vastly outproduce Russia, for a small cost to living standards. The alternative is giving up.

agumonkey 2y ago
This debate is probably a communication strategy to fuel anger in the american public while distracting / confusing other partners. From the time I could watch TV I always saw USA spend intensely on military and foreign policy. I'm trying to find when the reversal occured, but it's probably during the previous campaign, as a trick to blame biden.
- DamnYuppie 2y ago
  I have said this many times. I feel, as an American, many people are tired. WE have no insight into the vast sums of money that are being spent by the DOD and where it is going. I see debt climbing and I have to ask myself, do I want my country to spend money on other countries or maybe focus on cleaning up our own house first? I would rather America focus on putting its own house in order, wasted spending, corruption, cartels, China buying up land, and the erosion of our education system. Many of us no longer feel the juice is worth the squeeze in supporting Europe. We have done enough over the last 100 years. Yes we have benefit some from their troubles, which they caused, but that doesn't mean we have to continue to support them.
  - agumonkey 2y ago
    Most western countries are indebted way above the normal limit. I'm only a newb, but afaik, the global monetary system was wired this way. And US was said, being the currency reserve of the world, to have no problem with large debt. In reality, what I heard is that US inflation gets passed onto the world through dollar dominance. (not an unusual move for Trump to invert the logic to gain political point painting himself as the savior). You never considered it was just a story to justify shaking "allies" ? I don't know what the truth is, but it smells like it. And so far there's no announcement about investing in education or health, it seems quite the opposite, isn't it ? I sincerely don't understand how there can be any trust invested in Trump and his speeches. So far all he's done is creating meme coins and reviving the ruble. thanks for your answer nonetheless
    - DamnYuppie 2y ago
      It takes time to turn a big ship. Why would I be excited to see more spending into government agencies until I am sure of how they are operating and what they are spending money on. Once things are cleaned up then you can start spending money as needed to get the results you want. It feels everyone is near jerk like, you actions didn't improve everything immediately so they were wrong. The reality of all of this will play out over the next few years.
      - flaburgan 2y ago
        But cleaning can't be done Musk's way. The whole system is kinda stable because everything is linked together. To start from scratch without anything in the meantime is just suicide. It's like if a scientist what not giving food to an animal for a month to test if really food is needed. Well, he will conclude that food was needed, but now the animal is dead.
      - etc-hosts 2y ago
        Pol Pot tried that with Year Zero. It turned out poorly.
        2y ago
OKRainbowKid 2y ago
The reason the US is the global hegemon of the western world was because they won the cold war against USSR. Being the leading member of NATO largely contributed to that, and ensured US dominance in geopolitics and trade. With Trump now in office, the US seems to be willingly breaking, or at the very least withdrawing from, the NATO alliance. With that they give up their position as hegemon, and sacrifice their influence on Europe. To me, it seems like Russia is now winning the cold war, 35 years after it "ended".
- jimmydoe 2y ago
  If you compare to how things began in Cold War, it’s far from a win for Russia no matter how much it may take from Ukraine. SU lost, here we feel some ripple or aftershock. US enjoyed years of prosperity, its people lived in much higher living standards for a long time. What’s a shame for the US is the innovators dilemma that it was not able to improve its system after the pressure of competition was gone, and now inequality brought you Trump II.
  - OKRainbowKid 2y ago
    Perhaps saying "Russia made the US lose the cold war" would be more accurate than saying "Russia won". From a lost position, Russia managed to make the US resign from the game.
jan_g 2y ago
Unfortunately, EU is not an entity with single and unified view on things. In the case of Russian invasion of Ukraine, there is a surprisingly strong opposition to related policies in Brussels amongst the people in quite a few member states. In fact, many support Putin and now his best buddy Trump - with plain stupid belief that Putin/Trump wants peace and Zelensky wants to continue war. In short, EU (+ UK, Norway, maybe Switzerland) is simply not as unified against Putin as it may appear in the Brussels press conferences. Putting more effort (in money, materials, soldiers even) in this conflict will be hard to pill to swallow for large percentage of citizens and by extension politicians. What I see happening in the near future is more money flowing into militaries of the member states, which is a sad necessity by having Putin as neighbor. But I'm skeptical of EU countries becoming much more involved in the Ukraine conflict.
- bpodgursky 2y ago
  Forget the EU. I don't care about the EU. Britain, Germany, and France alone have the military production and economy to win the war. Doesn't matter if Hungary or Ireland or whoever back out of the consortium.
  - kergonath 2y ago
    > Britain, Germany, and France These three countries have been a bit unstable politically during the last couple of years. This did not help. At least they are going in the same direction and not shooting each other’s foot.

agumonkey 2y ago

This debate is probably a communication strategy to fuel anger in the american public while distracting / confusing other partners. From the time I could watch TV I always saw USA spend intensely on military and foreign policy. I'm trying to find when the reversal occured, but it's probably during the previous campaign, as a trick to blame biden.

DamnYuppie 2y ago
I have said this many times. I feel, as an American, many people are tired. WE have no insight into the vast sums of money that are being spent by the DOD and where it is going. I see debt climbing and I have to ask myself, do I want my country to spend money on other countries or maybe focus on cleaning up our own house first? I would rather America focus on putting its own house in order, wasted spending, corruption, cartels, China buying up land, and the erosion of our education system. Many of us no longer feel the juice is worth the squeeze in supporting Europe. We have done enough over the last 100 years. Yes we have benefit some from their troubles, which they caused, but that doesn't mean we have to continue to support them.
- agumonkey 2y ago
  Most western countries are indebted way above the normal limit. I'm only a newb, but afaik, the global monetary system was wired this way. And US was said, being the currency reserve of the world, to have no problem with large debt. In reality, what I heard is that US inflation gets passed onto the world through dollar dominance. (not an unusual move for Trump to invert the logic to gain political point painting himself as the savior). You never considered it was just a story to justify shaking "allies" ? I don't know what the truth is, but it smells like it. And so far there's no announcement about investing in education or health, it seems quite the opposite, isn't it ? I sincerely don't understand how there can be any trust invested in Trump and his speeches. So far all he's done is creating meme coins and reviving the ruble. thanks for your answer nonetheless
  - DamnYuppie 2y ago
    It takes time to turn a big ship. Why would I be excited to see more spending into government agencies until I am sure of how they are operating and what they are spending money on. Once things are cleaned up then you can start spending money as needed to get the results you want. It feels everyone is near jerk like, you actions didn't improve everything immediately so they were wrong. The reality of all of this will play out over the next few years.
    - flaburgan 2y ago
      But cleaning can't be done Musk's way. The whole system is kinda stable because everything is linked together. To start from scratch without anything in the meantime is just suicide. It's like if a scientist what not giving food to an animal for a month to test if really food is needed. Well, he will conclude that food was needed, but now the animal is dead.
    - etc-hosts 2y ago
      Pol Pot tried that with Year Zero. It turned out poorly.
      - 2y ago

OKRainbowKid 2y ago

The reason the US is the global hegemon of the western world was because they won the cold war against USSR. Being the leading member of NATO largely contributed to that, and ensured US dominance in geopolitics and trade. With Trump now in office, the US seems to be willingly breaking, or at the very least withdrawing from, the NATO alliance. With that they give up their position as hegemon, and sacrifice their influence on Europe. To me, it seems like Russia is now winning the cold war, 35 years after it "ended".

jimmydoe 2y ago
If you compare to how things began in Cold War, it’s far from a win for Russia no matter how much it may take from Ukraine. SU lost, here we feel some ripple or aftershock. US enjoyed years of prosperity, its people lived in much higher living standards for a long time. What’s a shame for the US is the innovators dilemma that it was not able to improve its system after the pressure of competition was gone, and now inequality brought you Trump II.
- OKRainbowKid 2y ago
  Perhaps saying "Russia made the US lose the cold war" would be more accurate than saying "Russia won". From a lost position, Russia managed to make the US resign from the game.

jan_g 2y ago

Unfortunately, EU is not an entity with single and unified view on things. In the case of Russian invasion of Ukraine, there is a surprisingly strong opposition to related policies in Brussels amongst the people in quite a few member states. In fact, many support Putin and now his best buddy Trump - with plain stupid belief that Putin/Trump wants peace and Zelensky wants to continue war. In short, EU (+ UK, Norway, maybe Switzerland) is simply not as unified against Putin as it may appear in the Brussels press conferences. Putting more effort (in money, materials, soldiers even) in this conflict will be hard to pill to swallow for large percentage of citizens and by extension politicians. What I see happening in the near future is more money flowing into militaries of the member states, which is a sad necessity by having Putin as neighbor. But I'm skeptical of EU countries becoming much more involved in the Ukraine conflict.

bpodgursky 2y ago
Forget the EU. I don't care about the EU. Britain, Germany, and France alone have the military production and economy to win the war. Doesn't matter if Hungary or Ireland or whoever back out of the consortium.
- kergonath 2y ago
  > Britain, Germany, and France These three countries have been a bit unstable politically during the last couple of years. This did not help. At least they are going in the same direction and not shooting each other’s foot.