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I think they did, but they didn’t expect Zelensky to punch back. He’s more of a fighter than either of them will ever be. Trump is the classic bully where all y
by matwood 2y ago
I think they did, but they didn’t expect Zelensky to punch back. He’s more of a fighter than either of them will ever be. Trump is the classic bully where all you need to do is push back. Then he folds.
- rbanffy 2y agoZelensky has nothing to lose at this point. If he takes the deal Trump proposed Ukraine will be paying the US and Russia for having been invaded in 2014 and again in 2022. And let’s not ignore the fact it was the US was propping up the politicians suggesting joining NATO and not renewing the lease on Sevastopol in 2015.
- s1artibartfast 2y agoThat is the real disgrace. This was a setup from day 1. A win-win to degrade Russia either way at Ukraine's expense. I wish Zelensky made those points instead. "The US voted to open a NATO path for us, The US asked not to renew the base, and the US refused to negotiate with Russia when tanks were on our boarder. And now you want to walk away?"
- just-ok 2y agoNothing to lose besides thousands more lives, of course.
- cbg0 2y agoNo real security guarantees also means tens of thousands of lives lost when Russia gets back into gear and tries to take Ukraine a second time.
- just-ok 2y agoWhy would Russia bother going through this again?
- relaxing 2y agoThe same reason they did it the first time.
- netsharc 2y agoBecause after bribing Trump with the ability to brag that he won the USA 500B of minerals, they will be able to march in without any US interference...
- just-ok 2y agoThat doesn’t answer the “why?” at all. To what end?
- usernomdeguerre 2y agoAre you asking people to read the mind of Putin? Or speculate? It seems reasonable to believe that at the very least Putin wants the territory he attempted to take when he first invaded, Kyiv et.al. Why would that change if he hasn't?
- just-ok 2y agoBecause both Ukraine and Russia have changed? Ukraine is war torn, deeply in debt, and no longer provides the strategic benefit to Russia it might’ve in ‘22. Russia’s economy and populace needs to recover from being war-oriented. They have their land bridge to Crimea now, and if I had to speculate, they’d be happy with a neutered neighbor that can’t join NATO, essentially a populated DMZ. I can’t see what benefit in wanting to take Ukraine on again after the dragged out meat grinder it was this time around.
- usernomdeguerre 2y agoSo speculation then. Here's some more: because it won't be a dragged out meat-grinder if he has a puppet US administration/political party.
- 2y ago
- dagenleg 2y agoSecond time? More like fourth time. First there was Crimea, then Donbas, then the current invasion.
- cbg0 2y agoYou are correct, I should have said "again".
- insane_dreamer 2y agoThe deal was a sham -- it came with no guarantees.
- joyeuse6701 2y agoDon’t victim blame.
- fulladder 2y agoWho do you think should pay for those invasions? Currently, it is the US/EU taxpayers.
- rbanffy 2y agoI'd suggest the US, because they propped up the Ukrainian politicians who started saying it out loud they would join NATO (a big No-No since the fall of the URSS) and not renew the lease on Sevastopol (Russia's only naval base that operates throughout the year), but I'd settle with Russia, because, after all, they were first to cross the border with tanks.
- s1artibartfast 2y agoDid trump fold?
- randcraw 2y agoI think Europe will see this as a clear sign that Trump just attacked one of their own. I would not be surprised if the EU nations soon call a conclave to discuss establishing a new compact for self defense (and economic interest) that EXCLUDES the US. If this does come to pass, then yes, Trump and all of America will have lost. This bright shining revelation of just how ugly and stupid Trumpism truly is (and America, by proxy) may realign world powers for decades, to our great loss.
- s1artibartfast 2y agoThat is an entirely different claim than "trump folds" if anyone pushes back, which doesnt seem at all accurate to me. If anything, he digs in his heels. The only things that seem to sway him is the sentiment of his voters and the economy. Bully or not, I think the entire schoolyard theory that bullies fold when pushed back is bunk, cartoon logic. Did Russia give up and go home when Ukraine pushed back?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- 7952 2y agoMaybe start talking about nuclear proliferation within europe. Put more cards on the Table.
- svachalek 2y agoToday he claims he never called Zelensky a dictator. You can call that folding, or being senile, or who knows.
- sjsdaiuasgdia 2y agoIt sure is awesome having a president where whenever they say anything that's obviously false, it's a toss-up whether it's dishonesty, senility, or just plain ignorance.
- Krasnol 2y agoI, too, think that they did and underestimated Zelenskyy. Trump would love to sell his deal. Now he just embarrassed himself and his nation again.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]