14 ms·

It was as if they invited him to the Whitehouse to set him up for a lecture and scolding. They had no intention of anything other than humiliating him in front

It was as if they invited him to the Whitehouse to set him up for a lecture and scolding. They had no intention of anything other than humiliating him in front of the world. It's shameful what our administration has done.

tencentshill 2y ago
It makes sense from His worldview. Ukraine are the weaker ones, the natural losers. He doesn't help losers. There is no further thought or consideration. That territory was always Russia's to take when they were ready.
- pantalaimon 2y ago
  I think it’s worse: Trump et al want to install a neofeudal system of society whereas Ukraine is fighting for the Westen Democracy kind of system. It’s clear that Trump wants to establish that as a futile endeavor
  - borsecplata 2y ago
    I think there's no actual plan, trump et al are just stupid. Looking at how DOGE is doing seems to coroborate this view.
    - forum-soon-yuck 2y ago
      [flagged]
  - tumsfestival 2y ago
    Nah, they just care about money is all. They look at Ukraine and they don't see a profit to be made, so they demand payment or the withdrawal of aid. Greed plain and simple.
- jfengel 2y ago
  "Weaker" is a function of not just your own strength, but that of your allies. Russia wants Ukraine as a way to hit at Europe. Ukraine and its allies are a match for Russia and its. Perhaps more so, since Ukraine's allies have limited its use of force. With the US out, Ukraine may be able to exert much more force. Which is to say Trump's judgment of who is weak is deeply compromised by his belief in single strongmen. This will not go well for him.
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y ago
    > Ukraine's allies have limited its use of force. With the US out, Ukraine may be able to exert much more force. I am curious about this. Why you say it?
    - jfengel 2y ago
      Ukraine is limited in its use of American weapons. It can't strike well in Russian territory. The US wanted to keep the conflict from escalating beyond Ukraine's borders. Europe has similar concerns, but if Ukraine loses American support, they may not be able to afford that. They might gamble on direct strikes on Moscow, or at least make it clear that they can. Which might end life as we know it. Or it might force Russia to the bargaining table directly with Ukraine. Who knows? Let's find out!
uberman 2y ago
I wish Zelensky had asked Trump if he wanted his feet kissed there and now because I feel like everyone could see that is what Trump wants at the very least.
- insane_dreamer 2y ago
  Trump wants to be King.
  - lijf 2y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdygrcFcyyY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdygrcFcyyY Jon Stewart & John Oliver Welcome America to Its Trump Monarchy Era | The Daily Show
- nxm 2y ago
  Turns out Biden lost temper will Zelensky too
legitster 2y ago
This is a good reminder why diplomacy is usually done behind closed doors. "Transparency" is being used as the refuge of a scoundrel.
matwood 2y ago
I think they did, but they didn’t expect Zelensky to punch back. He’s more of a fighter than either of them will ever be. Trump is the classic bully where all you need to do is push back. Then he folds.
- rbanffy 2y ago
  Zelensky has nothing to lose at this point. If he takes the deal Trump proposed Ukraine will be paying the US and Russia for having been invaded in 2014 and again in 2022. And let’s not ignore the fact it was the US was propping up the politicians suggesting joining NATO and not renewing the lease on Sevastopol in 2015.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    That is the real disgrace. This was a setup from day 1. A win-win to degrade Russia either way at Ukraine's expense. I wish Zelensky made those points instead. "The US voted to open a NATO path for us, The US asked not to renew the base, and the US refused to negotiate with Russia when tanks were on our boarder. And now you want to walk away?"
  - just-ok 2y ago
    Nothing to lose besides thousands more lives, of course.
    - cbg0 2y ago
      No real security guarantees also means tens of thousands of lives lost when Russia gets back into gear and tries to take Ukraine a second time.
      - just-ok 2y ago
        Why would Russia bother going through this again?
        2y ago
grungydan 2y ago
So it was just like literally everything else this administration is doing. Shocking.
alabastervlog 2y ago
It 100% looks like they were planning to force a confrontation. Notice how all the escalation is them, they start escalating over basically nothing, and they keep trying to crank up the temperature while Zelenskyy's keeping things nice and even. This didn't happen the last couple times world leaders made far more confrontational statements in a similar setting, but also Vance wasn't there to provide emotional support those times and, well, there are some common sayings about the actual nature of a bully. I think Zelenskyy didn't give them the sound-bites or vibe they were looking for, but they're claiming some kind of victory (WTF) on social media anyway. Meanwhile all they managed to do was look some combination of stupid, childish, and traitorous, while he came out looking incredibly restrained, and overall more-articulate than them despite the handicap of speaking in English rather than his native tongue.
- TheOtherHobbes 2y ago
  Zelensky used to be a stand-up comedian. He has plenty of experience thinking on his feet in front of a tough audience of drunks and fools. I'm wondering what all the people in the US military and government who swore to protect the US from "all enemies, foreign and domestic" are thinking now.
  - alabastervlog 2y ago
    I have to imagine being under non-stop threat of violent death for several years also gives one a rather thick skin.
- shostack 2y ago
  Sounds like when Jon Stewart went on Crossfire and destroyed Tucker Carlson who had attempted to escalate and get angry. And Jon was like "this is theater."
  - PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
    Carlson was destroyed, but he did not attempt to escalate. He wanted Stewart to get back to "being funny" and got angry when Stewart refused.
morkalork 2y ago
Humiliating people does appear to be a common theme with the administration, one just has to look at the photo they put out after winning with RFK and the McDonald's takeout on airforce one. Also all the women jockeying for various positions getting plastic surgery, looking like an army of botox'd stepford wives. I'm no armchair psychoanalyst so I can't tell you what it means. Just that it's very.. apparent and intentional.
Rapzid 2y ago
That felt really gross to watch. I don't know what else to say that's more high-level thinking and adds to the conversation. A straight up "mean girls" moment.
WinstonSmith84 2y ago
it was 100% the purpose, but it looks like it worked out badly. They keep underestimating Zelenski but he was certainly prepared for this confrontation. I mean, I just can't imagine anybody staying that cool in front of such provocations.
- afavour 2y ago
  He’s also a former stand up comedian. If you’re going to heckle the guy you’d better be good at it if you want to come out looking good.
  - rvnx 2y ago
    He did one mistake though, when he asked "Can I speak/say something?" to Trump, and Trump said no. This is lesson learnt for the future (for myself too in terms of public speaking). But overall, he did rather well, considering the shit-show it was. I still can't believe Trump publicly tries to humiliate an ally like this, and at the same time calls Biden "the stupid President". Stupid or not, perhaps he is, but not to stay in public like that. It shows Trump doesn't respect the function of the US President and shits on the vote of the citizens.
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y ago
      > He did one mistake though I don't think I'd consider that a mistake. Not that it matters to everyone but it's one more asshole thing to know Trump did, which was only publicized because Zelenskyy respectfully asked for his turn to speak. Other leaders are likely to have taken note of that: Trump isn't even pretending that you're equals. To some common folk, it will make Zelenskyy look weak but also consider this exact thread in which people say his calm demeanor makes him look strong. I'd wager Zelenskyy is interested in impressing the latter folk and not interested in impressing the former.
      - ttyprintk 2y ago
        There’s a short list of people Trump is afraid to let speak.
dist-epoch 2y ago
Trump did the exact same thing with the Polish president, made him wait for 1 and a half hours then had a 10 minute meeting with him. https://www.dw.com/en/how-trumps-foreign-policy-is-impacting-polish-us-relations/a-71749104 https://www.dw.com/en/how-trumps-foreign-policy-is-impacting...
- IsTom 2y ago
  Which is the exact kind of play Putin likes to perform.
- attentive 2y ago
  Even worse with Kaja Kallas, she flew into US and Rubio cancelled the meeting. Not sure if she was supposed to meet Trump or not but that's still a case of US bullying its allies all the while sucking up to Putin.
onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago
The joke is on them. The one's humiliated on the global scale are the ones who are lying through their teeth with less than zero class.
- PartiallyTyped 2y ago
  I don't think the US is "too big to fall", and the US seems to have taken that road.
- nickmp 2y ago
  But will the American people see what the rest of the world sees, or will they continue supporting Trump and Vance?
  - dctoedt 2y ago
    > But will the American people see what the rest of the world sees, or will they continue supporting Trump and Vance? Attributed to (the half-American) Winston Churchill: "The American people can be counted on to do the right thing — after they've exhausted all other possibilities."
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - technothrasher 2y ago
      It is consistently misattributed to Churchill and misquoted to be about Americans. The quote is actually from Abba Eban, and what he said was, "History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have exhausted all other alternatives."
  - insane_dreamer 2y ago
    I honestly don't think there's anything Trump could do to lose the support of his MAGA base. There have been so many times when I've said "surely they'll see what he is now" only to be mistaken. It's truly a cult.
B1FF_PSUVM 2y ago
> It's shameful what our administration has done. The shameful part was ten years ago.
cmrdporcupine 2y ago
Only American MAGA supporters saw Zelensky being humiliated. Anybody else saw Vance and Trump humiliating themselves. Showing the intellectual and emotional capacity of a middle schooler to the world while a man whose people are suffering occupation and mass casualties and deals with death every day just looks stunned. To anybody with critical thinking skills it feels like Trump & Vance are talking about a TV show or video game. Completely disconnected from reality. Horrifying and shocking level of narcissistic immaturity.
haberman 2y ago
The spat started when Vance made a point addressed to the US media (not Zelensky), and Zelensky interjected to confront Vance for his statement. Up until that point there had been 40 minutes of cordial discussion. I don't think it was intended that the talks would break down and the deal would fall through.
- tdb7893 2y ago
  What did Vance say addressed to the media that Zelensky shouldn't have responded to? I've watched the video a few times and I don't really get what you're talking about https://youtu.be/O_BhxA1WDQY?si=7Ovl4-RpTCdi5ewZ https://youtu.be/O_BhxA1WDQY?si=7Ovl4-RpTCdi5ewZ
  - sidibe 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - haberman 2y ago
    In the full video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhquAWlke2o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhquAWlke2o), at 38:15 you can see the press ask a question that Trump (and then Vance) are responding to, directly prior to where your video begins. Trump and Vance are directing their answers at the reporter. Vance's reply does not criticize Zelensky at all. Then Zelensky interjects to directly confront Vance about his answer. That was the moment when it became argumentative. Don't get me wrong, I understand the righteous fury that Zelensky feels. His country was invaded. But I think it was a blunder to pick a fight over Vance's answer.
    - sureglymop 2y ago
      Could you please explain what part about his interjection/question was inaccurate or invalid?
      - haberman 2y ago
        I didn't say that it was inaccurate or invalid per se, only that he made the decision to pick a fight on live TV in what was previously a cordial conversation, and this (to me) strongly refutes the idea that Trump and Vance intentionally set this up to humiliate Zelensky.
mike-cardwell 2y ago
I couldn't even watch the whole video. Horrendous. Depressing. How can you tolerate having those men running your country America. Nightmare fuel.
- malfist 2y ago
  Lots of us here feel the way you do and are in disbelief of our country
  - tasty_freeze 2y ago
    I'm 61. I never in my life thought we could be in this situation. As the old saying goes, "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me." We elected Trump again knowing exactly who he is. I'm not disappointed in Trump; he remains exactly who I thought he was even before running in 2015. I'm disappointed in how many of my fellow citizens applaud his buffoonery, ignorance, and malice. While Trump himself is not competent, he has surrounded himself with people who can actually do the damage. To conservatives who are about to say I'm a snowflake liberal, I ask you this: if Biden had invited George Soros to run wild through the government and ignore the laws, demanded a $800B reduction in the military budget and reallocated it to distribute to those in poverty, commanded schools to hire only gay people, fire anyone who didn't declare loyalty to Biden, and had minions collecting all your data for whatever purposes, and threatened to wipe out Israel unless they gave over their country to the Palestinians, what would you have done? I can't even construct a proper analogy because those goals above are just a parody of what the left wants, whereas Trump/Musk are actually doing that about actual right wing wishes.
    - philistine 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - orangesun 2y ago
        To add on to that, counting on them to feel shame or self-reflection. That does not exist.
palominoz 2y ago
Yes this was my first thought. But then I understood that it's most probably the fact that the administration wasn't interested in the outcome of the conversation. My hypotesis is that Trump is living each day as unique, disconnected from the others, in a selfish way. So he didn't care about the consequences of this meeting for Zelenskyy and in general everything else.
EasyMark 2y ago
They 100% set him up. A new block in the wall of proving that Trump is a Russian asset or dupe. I don't see how any other conclusion can be drawn by anyone paying attention. He consistently kisses up to Putin with little love messages via Fox news and other outlets, while doing his best to alienate the rest of the world. It would be different if he just washed his hands of the whole situation, however he always looks up to Putin and refuses to call him a dictator, I reckon because he was told that he would regret it if he ever did from his Russian contacts.
- doublerabbit 2y ago
  https://www.kyivpost.com/post/47630 https://www.kyivpost.com/post/47630
wwalker2112 2y ago
It was a 40 minute long conversation and everything was fine until the last 5 minutes when Zelensky got mad about Vance talking about using diplomacy with Russia.
- Hammershaft 2y ago
  What Zelensky got mad about is that all previous diplomatic agreements with Russia have been broken by Russia when convenient. Even the Budapest Memorandum, where the US pledged security to Ukraine in exchange for them giving their nukes to Russia, is no longer honored. How can Ukraine trust that any deal made by Trump is going to be honored once Russia rebuilds its military if the US won't offer any assurances of peace?
- cbg0 2y ago
  You can't have diplomacy with Russia, they don't respect any agreements, EU tried to partner up with them on trade as a "diplomatic" route, hoping that cash flowing both ways would be enough to keep Russia happy, but their ambitions go beyond a peaceful coexistence.
_bin_ 2y ago
this seems like a misread. we get something out of sending resources to Ukraine. it's a decently-leveraged way to keep Russia, a would-be superpower, down for the next decade or so, to keep bleeding her without bleeding our own young men. we do not have enough of an interest to go send young Americans to die. to deploy boots-on-the-ground forces for what amounts to a minor territorial war in a country with limited strategic importance beyond being a buffer state. smells too strongly of vietnam and korea. to those who disagree with this, alright that's a fair position to hold. what number of young Americans is it appropriate for us to sacrifice to hold the donetsk and luhansk oblasts? how many of our children should we send to die? which number is reasonable and which is too great? if you don't believe there's a limit, and we should risk any number of Americans and potential nuclear exchange, why? the minerals deal was actually a pretty fair offer the way it was worked out. then zelensky decided to, at the eleventh hour, push for a full security deal which isn't tenable from where we stand. this wasn't what had been discussed with Rubio; it was a bait-and-switch pressure tactic. zelensky was trying to either squeeze out that guarantee or humiliate the admin with failure coming from what otherwise would have been successful. i think the constant lionization of zelensky has gone to his head. he feels confident in disrespecting nations who have invested significant resources in the war by refusing to so much as dress for the occasion, expecting the sort of standing ovation the prior administration and european leaders gave him. i can respect someone who's fighting for causes i generally support, as can most of my countrymen, but zelensky is no holy warrior and we have no moral duty to offer unlimited resources and manpower. we have aligned interests, but if not for that, there are more than enough domestic US issues that we otherwise would not (nor should we) send the sort of resources we have. similar thing with Israel: we have strongly overlapping interests but she needs to mind her place and toe the line if she wants our support.
- marticode 2y ago
  > we do not have enough of an interest to go send young Americans to die. This is a straw man: nobody asked you to. > the minerals deal was actually a pretty fair offer the way it was worked out There was nothing fair in that mineral deal: the US would get resources and Ukraine was getting... nothing. No security guarantees, no military support, nothing. Trump said it himself: he wanted it to get back what the US spent helping Ukraine so far. Getting something for nothing is fair to you? > as dress for the occasion The is the King of Saudi Arabia at the white house: https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/president-obama-meets-with-king-salman-bin-abdulaziz-al-saud-of-saudi-arabia-at-the-white-house https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/president-obama-meets-wit... This is the pope at the white house: https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2015/09/25/photos-pope-francis-visits-white-house https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2015/09/25/photos-... This is Elon Musk giving an interview in the oval office: https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/12/tech/elon-musk-x-oval-office/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/12/tech/elon-musk-x-oval-off... Did they all disrespect the US? Ukraine is sending its youngs to die to keep Russia (the west common enemy) at bay and your concern is... Zelinsky wearing a tie?
11thEarlOfMar 2y ago
They invited him to the White House to finally sign the rare earth minerals agreement, which he had said he'd sign and then renegged two times prior[0]. This was the third attempt by the US to get it signed. During the meeting, he indicated that he would sign the agreement but then not agree to a cease fire, which was the whole point of putting it in place. Naturally, this was a deal breaker for the administration and the meeting ended. [0] https://x.com/RapidResponse47/status/1895633109649134013 https://x.com/RapidResponse47/status/1895633109649134013
11thEarlOfMar 2y ago
I watched the entire press conference with Zelensky. There was 40 minutes of discussion up to the argument. Most people saw at most the last ten minutes. The whole video gives the proper context. When I first watched the argument without the proper context, I thought it was possible that Trump and Vance ambushed Zelensky or were even trying to humiliate him. That's not what happened. You had 40 minutes of calm conversation. Vance made a point that didn't attack Zelensky and wasn't even addressed to him, and Zelensky clearly started the argument. In the first 40 minutes, Zelensky kept trying to go beyond what was negotiated in the deal. When Trump was asked a question, it was always "we'll see." Zelensky made blanket assertions that there would be no negotiating with Putin, and that Russia would pay for the war. When Trump said that it was a tragedy that people on both sides were dying, Zelensky interjected that the Russians were the invaders. For his part, Trump made clear that the US would continue delivering military aid. All Zelensky had to do was remain calm for a few more minutes and they would've signed a deal. The argument started when Trump pointed out that it would be hard to make a deal if you talk about Putin the way Zelensky does. Vance interjects to make the reasonable point that Biden called Putin names and that didn't get us anywhere. The Zelensky/Trump dynamic was calm and stable. It was when Vance spoke that Zelensky started to interrogate him. Throughout the press conference to that point, everyone was making their arguments directly to the audience. Zelensky decided to challenge Vance and ask him hostile questions. He went back to his point that Putin never sticks to ceasefires, once again implying that negotiations are pointless. Why on earth would you do this? Then came the fight we all saw. Zelensky was minutes away from being home free, and he would have had the deal and new commitments from the Trump administration. The point Vance made was directed against Biden and the media, taking them to task for speaking in moralistic terms. This offended Zelensky, and that began the argument. I've been a fan of Zelensky up to this point, but this showed so much incompetence, if not emotional instability, that I don't see how he recovers from this. The relationship with the administration is broken. Ukraine should probably go with new leadership at this point.
- raziel2p 2y ago
  the way I read what you wrote, it seems like you think Zelensky's argument is bad and purely emotionally motivated, but the fact that Putin/Russia has broken agreements and ceasefires is a very valid concern, isn't it? if the conference had ended without argument but behind the scenes Trump/Vance were setting up negotiations that go against Ukraine's interest, that would not have been a "win" for Zelensky other than in terms of a contest of popularity - but only the popularity among westerners who have no real personal stake in the conflict. it's Ukrainians and Russians who are dying on the front lines.

tencentshill 2y ago

It makes sense from His worldview. Ukraine are the weaker ones, the natural losers. He doesn't help losers. There is no further thought or consideration. That territory was always Russia's to take when they were ready.

pantalaimon 2y ago
I think it’s worse: Trump et al want to install a neofeudal system of society whereas Ukraine is fighting for the Westen Democracy kind of system. It’s clear that Trump wants to establish that as a futile endeavor
- borsecplata 2y ago
  I think there's no actual plan, trump et al are just stupid. Looking at how DOGE is doing seems to coroborate this view.
  - forum-soon-yuck 2y ago
    [flagged]
- tumsfestival 2y ago
  Nah, they just care about money is all. They look at Ukraine and they don't see a profit to be made, so they demand payment or the withdrawal of aid. Greed plain and simple.
jfengel 2y ago
"Weaker" is a function of not just your own strength, but that of your allies. Russia wants Ukraine as a way to hit at Europe. Ukraine and its allies are a match for Russia and its. Perhaps more so, since Ukraine's allies have limited its use of force. With the US out, Ukraine may be able to exert much more force. Which is to say Trump's judgment of who is weak is deeply compromised by his belief in single strongmen. This will not go well for him.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y ago
  > Ukraine's allies have limited its use of force. With the US out, Ukraine may be able to exert much more force. I am curious about this. Why you say it?
  - jfengel 2y ago
    Ukraine is limited in its use of American weapons. It can't strike well in Russian territory. The US wanted to keep the conflict from escalating beyond Ukraine's borders. Europe has similar concerns, but if Ukraine loses American support, they may not be able to afford that. They might gamble on direct strikes on Moscow, or at least make it clear that they can. Which might end life as we know it. Or it might force Russia to the bargaining table directly with Ukraine. Who knows? Let's find out!

uberman 2y ago

I wish Zelensky had asked Trump if he wanted his feet kissed there and now because I feel like everyone could see that is what Trump wants at the very least.

insane_dreamer 2y ago
Trump wants to be King.
- lijf 2y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdygrcFcyyY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdygrcFcyyY Jon Stewart & John Oliver Welcome America to Its Trump Monarchy Era | The Daily Show
nxm 2y ago
Turns out Biden lost temper will Zelensky too

legitster 2y ago

This is a good reminder why diplomacy is usually done behind closed doors. "Transparency" is being used as the refuge of a scoundrel.

matwood 2y ago

I think they did, but they didn’t expect Zelensky to punch back. He’s more of a fighter than either of them will ever be. Trump is the classic bully where all you need to do is push back. Then he folds.

rbanffy 2y ago
Zelensky has nothing to lose at this point. If he takes the deal Trump proposed Ukraine will be paying the US and Russia for having been invaded in 2014 and again in 2022. And let’s not ignore the fact it was the US was propping up the politicians suggesting joining NATO and not renewing the lease on Sevastopol in 2015.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  That is the real disgrace. This was a setup from day 1. A win-win to degrade Russia either way at Ukraine's expense. I wish Zelensky made those points instead. "The US voted to open a NATO path for us, The US asked not to renew the base, and the US refused to negotiate with Russia when tanks were on our boarder. And now you want to walk away?"
- just-ok 2y ago
  Nothing to lose besides thousands more lives, of course.
  - cbg0 2y ago
    No real security guarantees also means tens of thousands of lives lost when Russia gets back into gear and tries to take Ukraine a second time.
    - just-ok 2y ago
      Why would Russia bother going through this again?
      - 2y ago

grungydan 2y ago

So it was just like literally everything else this administration is doing. Shocking.

alabastervlog 2y ago

It 100% looks like they were planning to force a confrontation. Notice how all the escalation is them, they start escalating over basically nothing, and they keep trying to crank up the temperature while Zelenskyy's keeping things nice and even. This didn't happen the last couple times world leaders made far more confrontational statements in a similar setting, but also Vance wasn't there to provide emotional support those times and, well, there are some common sayings about the actual nature of a bully. I think Zelenskyy didn't give them the sound-bites or vibe they were looking for, but they're claiming some kind of victory (WTF) on social media anyway. Meanwhile all they managed to do was look some combination of stupid, childish, and traitorous, while he came out looking incredibly restrained, and overall more-articulate than them despite the handicap of speaking in English rather than his native tongue.

TheOtherHobbes 2y ago
Zelensky used to be a stand-up comedian. He has plenty of experience thinking on his feet in front of a tough audience of drunks and fools. I'm wondering what all the people in the US military and government who swore to protect the US from "all enemies, foreign and domestic" are thinking now.
- alabastervlog 2y ago
  I have to imagine being under non-stop threat of violent death for several years also gives one a rather thick skin.
shostack 2y ago
Sounds like when Jon Stewart went on Crossfire and destroyed Tucker Carlson who had attempted to escalate and get angry. And Jon was like "this is theater."
- PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
  Carlson was destroyed, but he did not attempt to escalate. He wanted Stewart to get back to "being funny" and got angry when Stewart refused.

morkalork 2y ago

Humiliating people does appear to be a common theme with the administration, one just has to look at the photo they put out after winning with RFK and the McDonald's takeout on airforce one. Also all the women jockeying for various positions getting plastic surgery, looking like an army of botox'd stepford wives. I'm no armchair psychoanalyst so I can't tell you what it means. Just that it's very.. apparent and intentional.

Rapzid 2y ago

That felt really gross to watch. I don't know what else to say that's more high-level thinking and adds to the conversation. A straight up "mean girls" moment.

WinstonSmith84 2y ago

it was 100% the purpose, but it looks like it worked out badly. They keep underestimating Zelenski but he was certainly prepared for this confrontation. I mean, I just can't imagine anybody staying that cool in front of such provocations.

afavour 2y ago
He’s also a former stand up comedian. If you’re going to heckle the guy you’d better be good at it if you want to come out looking good.
- rvnx 2y ago
  He did one mistake though, when he asked "Can I speak/say something?" to Trump, and Trump said no. This is lesson learnt for the future (for myself too in terms of public speaking). But overall, he did rather well, considering the shit-show it was. I still can't believe Trump publicly tries to humiliate an ally like this, and at the same time calls Biden "the stupid President". Stupid or not, perhaps he is, but not to stay in public like that. It shows Trump doesn't respect the function of the US President and shits on the vote of the citizens.
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y ago
    > He did one mistake though I don't think I'd consider that a mistake. Not that it matters to everyone but it's one more asshole thing to know Trump did, which was only publicized because Zelenskyy respectfully asked for his turn to speak. Other leaders are likely to have taken note of that: Trump isn't even pretending that you're equals. To some common folk, it will make Zelenskyy look weak but also consider this exact thread in which people say his calm demeanor makes him look strong. I'd wager Zelenskyy is interested in impressing the latter folk and not interested in impressing the former.
    - ttyprintk 2y ago
      There’s a short list of people Trump is afraid to let speak.

dist-epoch 2y ago

Trump did the exact same thing with the Polish president, made him wait for 1 and a half hours then had a 10 minute meeting with him. https://www.dw.com/en/how-trumps-foreign-policy-is-impacting-polish-us-relations/a-71749104 https://www.dw.com/en/how-trumps-foreign-policy-is-impacting...

IsTom 2y ago
Which is the exact kind of play Putin likes to perform.
attentive 2y ago
Even worse with Kaja Kallas, she flew into US and Rubio cancelled the meeting. Not sure if she was supposed to meet Trump or not but that's still a case of US bullying its allies all the while sucking up to Putin.

onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago

The joke is on them. The one's humiliated on the global scale are the ones who are lying through their teeth with less than zero class.

PartiallyTyped 2y ago
I don't think the US is "too big to fall", and the US seems to have taken that road.
nickmp 2y ago
But will the American people see what the rest of the world sees, or will they continue supporting Trump and Vance?
- dctoedt 2y ago
  > But will the American people see what the rest of the world sees, or will they continue supporting Trump and Vance? Attributed to (the half-American) Winston Churchill: "The American people can be counted on to do the right thing — after they've exhausted all other possibilities."
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - technothrasher 2y ago
    It is consistently misattributed to Churchill and misquoted to be about Americans. The quote is actually from Abba Eban, and what he said was, "History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have exhausted all other alternatives."
- insane_dreamer 2y ago
  I honestly don't think there's anything Trump could do to lose the support of his MAGA base. There have been so many times when I've said "surely they'll see what he is now" only to be mistaken. It's truly a cult.

B1FF_PSUVM 2y ago

> It's shameful what our administration has done. The shameful part was ten years ago.

cmrdporcupine 2y ago

Only American MAGA supporters saw Zelensky being humiliated. Anybody else saw Vance and Trump humiliating themselves. Showing the intellectual and emotional capacity of a middle schooler to the world while a man whose people are suffering occupation and mass casualties and deals with death every day just looks stunned. To anybody with critical thinking skills it feels like Trump & Vance are talking about a TV show or video game. Completely disconnected from reality. Horrifying and shocking level of narcissistic immaturity.

haberman 2y ago

The spat started when Vance made a point addressed to the US media (not Zelensky), and Zelensky interjected to confront Vance for his statement. Up until that point there had been 40 minutes of cordial discussion. I don't think it was intended that the talks would break down and the deal would fall through.

tdb7893 2y ago
What did Vance say addressed to the media that Zelensky shouldn't have responded to? I've watched the video a few times and I don't really get what you're talking about https://youtu.be/O_BhxA1WDQY?si=7Ovl4-RpTCdi5ewZ https://youtu.be/O_BhxA1WDQY?si=7Ovl4-RpTCdi5ewZ
- sidibe 2y ago
  [flagged]
- haberman 2y ago
  In the full video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhquAWlke2o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhquAWlke2o), at 38:15 you can see the press ask a question that Trump (and then Vance) are responding to, directly prior to where your video begins. Trump and Vance are directing their answers at the reporter. Vance's reply does not criticize Zelensky at all. Then Zelensky interjects to directly confront Vance about his answer. That was the moment when it became argumentative. Don't get me wrong, I understand the righteous fury that Zelensky feels. His country was invaded. But I think it was a blunder to pick a fight over Vance's answer.
  - sureglymop 2y ago
    Could you please explain what part about his interjection/question was inaccurate or invalid?
    - haberman 2y ago
      I didn't say that it was inaccurate or invalid per se, only that he made the decision to pick a fight on live TV in what was previously a cordial conversation, and this (to me) strongly refutes the idea that Trump and Vance intentionally set this up to humiliate Zelensky.

mike-cardwell 2y ago

I couldn't even watch the whole video. Horrendous. Depressing. How can you tolerate having those men running your country America. Nightmare fuel.

malfist 2y ago
Lots of us here feel the way you do and are in disbelief of our country
- tasty_freeze 2y ago
  I'm 61. I never in my life thought we could be in this situation. As the old saying goes, "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me." We elected Trump again knowing exactly who he is. I'm not disappointed in Trump; he remains exactly who I thought he was even before running in 2015. I'm disappointed in how many of my fellow citizens applaud his buffoonery, ignorance, and malice. While Trump himself is not competent, he has surrounded himself with people who can actually do the damage. To conservatives who are about to say I'm a snowflake liberal, I ask you this: if Biden had invited George Soros to run wild through the government and ignore the laws, demanded a $800B reduction in the military budget and reallocated it to distribute to those in poverty, commanded schools to hire only gay people, fire anyone who didn't declare loyalty to Biden, and had minions collecting all your data for whatever purposes, and threatened to wipe out Israel unless they gave over their country to the Palestinians, what would you have done? I can't even construct a proper analogy because those goals above are just a parody of what the left wants, whereas Trump/Musk are actually doing that about actual right wing wishes.
  - philistine 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - orangesun 2y ago
      To add on to that, counting on them to feel shame or self-reflection. That does not exist.

palominoz 2y ago

Yes this was my first thought. But then I understood that it's most probably the fact that the administration wasn't interested in the outcome of the conversation. My hypotesis is that Trump is living each day as unique, disconnected from the others, in a selfish way. So he didn't care about the consequences of this meeting for Zelenskyy and in general everything else.

EasyMark 2y ago

They 100% set him up. A new block in the wall of proving that Trump is a Russian asset or dupe. I don't see how any other conclusion can be drawn by anyone paying attention. He consistently kisses up to Putin with little love messages via Fox news and other outlets, while doing his best to alienate the rest of the world. It would be different if he just washed his hands of the whole situation, however he always looks up to Putin and refuses to call him a dictator, I reckon because he was told that he would regret it if he ever did from his Russian contacts.

doublerabbit 2y ago
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/47630 https://www.kyivpost.com/post/47630

wwalker2112 2y ago

It was a 40 minute long conversation and everything was fine until the last 5 minutes when Zelensky got mad about Vance talking about using diplomacy with Russia.

Hammershaft 2y ago
What Zelensky got mad about is that all previous diplomatic agreements with Russia have been broken by Russia when convenient. Even the Budapest Memorandum, where the US pledged security to Ukraine in exchange for them giving their nukes to Russia, is no longer honored. How can Ukraine trust that any deal made by Trump is going to be honored once Russia rebuilds its military if the US won't offer any assurances of peace?
cbg0 2y ago
You can't have diplomacy with Russia, they don't respect any agreements, EU tried to partner up with them on trade as a "diplomatic" route, hoping that cash flowing both ways would be enough to keep Russia happy, but their ambitions go beyond a peaceful coexistence.

_bin_ 2y ago

this seems like a misread. we get something out of sending resources to Ukraine. it's a decently-leveraged way to keep Russia, a would-be superpower, down for the next decade or so, to keep bleeding her without bleeding our own young men. we do not have enough of an interest to go send young Americans to die. to deploy boots-on-the-ground forces for what amounts to a minor territorial war in a country with limited strategic importance beyond being a buffer state. smells too strongly of vietnam and korea. to those who disagree with this, alright that's a fair position to hold. what number of young Americans is it appropriate for us to sacrifice to hold the donetsk and luhansk oblasts? how many of our children should we send to die? which number is reasonable and which is too great? if you don't believe there's a limit, and we should risk any number of Americans and potential nuclear exchange, why? the minerals deal was actually a pretty fair offer the way it was worked out. then zelensky decided to, at the eleventh hour, push for a full security deal which isn't tenable from where we stand. this wasn't what had been discussed with Rubio; it was a bait-and-switch pressure tactic. zelensky was trying to either squeeze out that guarantee or humiliate the admin with failure coming from what otherwise would have been successful. i think the constant lionization of zelensky has gone to his head. he feels confident in disrespecting nations who have invested significant resources in the war by refusing to so much as dress for the occasion, expecting the sort of standing ovation the prior administration and european leaders gave him. i can respect someone who's fighting for causes i generally support, as can most of my countrymen, but zelensky is no holy warrior and we have no moral duty to offer unlimited resources and manpower. we have aligned interests, but if not for that, there are more than enough domestic US issues that we otherwise would not (nor should we) send the sort of resources we have. similar thing with Israel: we have strongly overlapping interests but she needs to mind her place and toe the line if she wants our support.

marticode 2y ago
> we do not have enough of an interest to go send young Americans to die. This is a straw man: nobody asked you to. > the minerals deal was actually a pretty fair offer the way it was worked out There was nothing fair in that mineral deal: the US would get resources and Ukraine was getting... nothing. No security guarantees, no military support, nothing. Trump said it himself: he wanted it to get back what the US spent helping Ukraine so far. Getting something for nothing is fair to you? > as dress for the occasion The is the King of Saudi Arabia at the white house: https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/president-obama-meets-with-king-salman-bin-abdulaziz-al-saud-of-saudi-arabia-at-the-white-house https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/president-obama-meets-wit... This is the pope at the white house: https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2015/09/25/photos-pope-francis-visits-white-house https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2015/09/25/photos-... This is Elon Musk giving an interview in the oval office: https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/12/tech/elon-musk-x-oval-office/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/12/tech/elon-musk-x-oval-off... Did they all disrespect the US? Ukraine is sending its youngs to die to keep Russia (the west common enemy) at bay and your concern is... Zelinsky wearing a tie?

11thEarlOfMar 2y ago

They invited him to the White House to finally sign the rare earth minerals agreement, which he had said he'd sign and then renegged two times prior[0]. This was the third attempt by the US to get it signed. During the meeting, he indicated that he would sign the agreement but then not agree to a cease fire, which was the whole point of putting it in place. Naturally, this was a deal breaker for the administration and the meeting ended. [0] https://x.com/RapidResponse47/status/1895633109649134013 https://x.com/RapidResponse47/status/1895633109649134013

11thEarlOfMar 2y ago

I watched the entire press conference with Zelensky. There was 40 minutes of discussion up to the argument. Most people saw at most the last ten minutes. The whole video gives the proper context. When I first watched the argument without the proper context, I thought it was possible that Trump and Vance ambushed Zelensky or were even trying to humiliate him. That's not what happened. You had 40 minutes of calm conversation. Vance made a point that didn't attack Zelensky and wasn't even addressed to him, and Zelensky clearly started the argument. In the first 40 minutes, Zelensky kept trying to go beyond what was negotiated in the deal. When Trump was asked a question, it was always "we'll see." Zelensky made blanket assertions that there would be no negotiating with Putin, and that Russia would pay for the war. When Trump said that it was a tragedy that people on both sides were dying, Zelensky interjected that the Russians were the invaders. For his part, Trump made clear that the US would continue delivering military aid. All Zelensky had to do was remain calm for a few more minutes and they would've signed a deal. The argument started when Trump pointed out that it would be hard to make a deal if you talk about Putin the way Zelensky does. Vance interjects to make the reasonable point that Biden called Putin names and that didn't get us anywhere. The Zelensky/Trump dynamic was calm and stable. It was when Vance spoke that Zelensky started to interrogate him. Throughout the press conference to that point, everyone was making their arguments directly to the audience. Zelensky decided to challenge Vance and ask him hostile questions. He went back to his point that Putin never sticks to ceasefires, once again implying that negotiations are pointless. Why on earth would you do this? Then came the fight we all saw. Zelensky was minutes away from being home free, and he would have had the deal and new commitments from the Trump administration. The point Vance made was directed against Biden and the media, taking them to task for speaking in moralistic terms. This offended Zelensky, and that began the argument. I've been a fan of Zelensky up to this point, but this showed so much incompetence, if not emotional instability, that I don't see how he recovers from this. The relationship with the administration is broken. Ukraine should probably go with new leadership at this point.

raziel2p 2y ago
the way I read what you wrote, it seems like you think Zelensky's argument is bad and purely emotionally motivated, but the fact that Putin/Russia has broken agreements and ceasefires is a very valid concern, isn't it? if the conference had ended without argument but behind the scenes Trump/Vance were setting up negotiations that go against Ukraine's interest, that would not have been a "win" for Zelensky other than in terms of a contest of popularity - but only the popularity among westerners who have no real personal stake in the conflict. it's Ukrainians and Russians who are dying on the front lines.