7 ms·

> actively harmed by US tech giants Both Nokia and Skype went under due to usual European leadership stagnation and comfort before getting bought. Thankfully b

by klohto 2y ago

> actively harmed by US tech giants Both Nokia and Skype went under due to usual European leadership stagnation and comfort before getting bought. Thankfully both sales funneled enough funds into EU to bootstrap a startup culture here.

sl-1 2y ago
Nope, Nokia was killed via suicide-by-microsoft-exec. They took in a MS aligned CEO and promptly proceeded to destroy their own chance of competing (using Maemo/meego or android for their phones) by using MS operating system. I guess one could call it leadership stagnation, but I would argue more it being just plain old stupidity
- ahoka 2y ago
  Microsoft did not buy or kill Nokia though.
caseyy 2y ago
I've worked for a European company acquired by big tech in the US. My experience was that the Americans were quite full of themselves and didn't want to learn how we operated. There was a vibe of “things are going to change around here, no more free rides, the grown-ups have arrived.” Awful management decisions were made, most of the talent left, and the team from the original company now only exists on paper. n=1 and all, but I've heard similar stories. European tech companies have very different cultures and ways of making money, shaped by our laws and consumer expectations. Skype, for example, was used as a pay phone and a simple messaging app before Microsoft bought it. You put in a euro, and you call and message your friends. It mutated into a bloated Microsoft Live app with several different front-ends, including some integrations with Office and various subscription services that sold the same thing in multiple ways. Core features stopped working, too. I'm sure someone liked the Frankenstein monster that it became (I don't kink-shame sadists), but most of the original users, and especially Europeans, did not. If Microsoft had a purpose for Skype except for taking out a competitor, I'd say the decline would have been the result of managerial incompetence and American managers' lack of understanding of Europe. But of course, once a competitor bought Skype, there was no reason for it to exist anymore, so perhaps that is the reason it died. Still, I wouldn't blame Europe so quickly. American big tech often fails to do business here within the local culture and laws, too.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  > I've worked for a European company acquired by big tech in the US. My experience was that the Americans were quite full of themselves and didn't want to learn how we operated. Yup, that's also my experience. Americans are just like the unofficial President - they don't take "no" for an answer when they demand something, no matter what, unless you manage to get court judgements because that actually threatens the bottom line. > Still, I wouldn't blame Europe so quickly. American big tech often fails to do business here within the local culture and laws, too. I always remember when Wal-Mart tried to come to Germany... and had to leave with its tail tucked in because they just couldn't cope with stuff being done differently here [1]. [1] https://medium.com/the-global-millennial/why-walmart-failed-in-germany-f1c3ca7eea65 https://medium.com/the-global-millennial/why-walmart-failed-...
  - kennysoona 2y ago
    > Americans are just like the unofficial President - ̶Y̶o̶u̶ ̶m̶e̶a̶n̶ ̶T̶r̶u̶m̶p̶?̶ ̶H̶e̶'̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶d̶i̶s̶a̶s̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶v̶o̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶h̶i̶m̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶a̶s̶h̶a̶m̶e̶d̶,̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶h̶e̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶u̶n̶f̶o̶r̶t̶u̶n̶a̶t̶e̶l̶y̶ ̶v̶e̶r̶y̶ ̶o̶f̶f̶i̶c̶i̶a̶l̶.̶ Edit: Parent more than likely meant Musk as replies to this comment explained, I should have figured that out but it's too late or early or some other excuse.
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      I assumed GP was referring to Musk. No one voted for him, but he can crash a presidental press meeting to ramble about DOGE propoganda. But it is hard to tell. They are cut from he same cloth after all, simply separated by a generation of figuring out how to squeeze more out of their labor.
      - kennysoona 2y ago
        Yeah I agree parent meant Musk. It really is bizarre the power he's been handed. Crazy the party that supposedly backs 'small government' is fine with that even if it takes the form of an unelected fool billionaire being given unreasonable amounts of power and doing nothing but causing damage.
jajko 2y ago
> Both Nokia and Skype went under due to usual European leadership stagnation and comfort before getting bought. Thankfully both sales funneled enough funds into EU to bootstrap a startup culture here. What? None of those were EU government owned, all was private. Do people really have this sort of (completely incorrect) view on how things work in Europe? Not even donald was ever stating such ridiculous things
- wqaatwt 2y ago
  Who said they were government owned though? Stagnation and risk averseness is pretty much the default when it comes to most major European companies. In almost any sector.
  - jajko 2y ago
    Not true, just some cheap internet meme for people too lazy to bother understanding economics and different principles US and European societies and markets work on. And the claim of parent that income from sales would go to EU, which is not true, it went to Nokia owners who aren't in any meaning 'EU'. Its like saying any sale of any US private company to some foreign one goes to trump and his government. Your post is typical lazy propagation of trivially verifiable made up claims, not sure even by whom or for what purpose, but this forum has higher standards
    - wqaatwt 2y ago
      > different principles Yes, risk aversion. Of course there are highly innovative and successful companies in Europe, but they are usually highly specialized or an exception to the rule. It wasn’t always the case of course, but the last ~15 years or so have been a disaster. > verifiable made up claims Well yes, it’s rather easily verifiable. The biggest “tech” company in the EU is SAP after all. It’s a but confusing is your comment supposed to be sarcasm? Otherwise how exactly are my claims “made up”? > would go to EU, which is not true, it went to Nokia owners who aren't in any meaning 'EU It’s very obvious that they didn’t mean that especially if you read what they said next. Not sure how one can misinterpret it.

by klohto 2y ago

sl-1 2y ago

Nope, Nokia was killed via suicide-by-microsoft-exec. They took in a MS aligned CEO and promptly proceeded to destroy their own chance of competing (using Maemo/meego or android for their phones) by using MS operating system. I guess one could call it leadership stagnation, but I would argue more it being just plain old stupidity

ahoka 2y ago
Microsoft did not buy or kill Nokia though.

caseyy 2y ago

I've worked for a European company acquired by big tech in the US. My experience was that the Americans were quite full of themselves and didn't want to learn how we operated. There was a vibe of “things are going to change around here, no more free rides, the grown-ups have arrived.” Awful management decisions were made, most of the talent left, and the team from the original company now only exists on paper. n=1 and all, but I've heard similar stories. European tech companies have very different cultures and ways of making money, shaped by our laws and consumer expectations. Skype, for example, was used as a pay phone and a simple messaging app before Microsoft bought it. You put in a euro, and you call and message your friends. It mutated into a bloated Microsoft Live app with several different front-ends, including some integrations with Office and various subscription services that sold the same thing in multiple ways. Core features stopped working, too. I'm sure someone liked the Frankenstein monster that it became (I don't kink-shame sadists), but most of the original users, and especially Europeans, did not. If Microsoft had a purpose for Skype except for taking out a competitor, I'd say the decline would have been the result of managerial incompetence and American managers' lack of understanding of Europe. But of course, once a competitor bought Skype, there was no reason for it to exist anymore, so perhaps that is the reason it died. Still, I wouldn't blame Europe so quickly. American big tech often fails to do business here within the local culture and laws, too.

mschuster91 2y ago
> I've worked for a European company acquired by big tech in the US. My experience was that the Americans were quite full of themselves and didn't want to learn how we operated. Yup, that's also my experience. Americans are just like the unofficial President - they don't take "no" for an answer when they demand something, no matter what, unless you manage to get court judgements because that actually threatens the bottom line. > Still, I wouldn't blame Europe so quickly. American big tech often fails to do business here within the local culture and laws, too. I always remember when Wal-Mart tried to come to Germany... and had to leave with its tail tucked in because they just couldn't cope with stuff being done differently here [1]. [1] https://medium.com/the-global-millennial/why-walmart-failed-in-germany-f1c3ca7eea65 https://medium.com/the-global-millennial/why-walmart-failed-...
- kennysoona 2y ago
  > Americans are just like the unofficial President - ̶Y̶o̶u̶ ̶m̶e̶a̶n̶ ̶T̶r̶u̶m̶p̶?̶ ̶H̶e̶'̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶d̶i̶s̶a̶s̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶v̶o̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶h̶i̶m̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶a̶s̶h̶a̶m̶e̶d̶,̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶h̶e̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶u̶n̶f̶o̶r̶t̶u̶n̶a̶t̶e̶l̶y̶ ̶v̶e̶r̶y̶ ̶o̶f̶f̶i̶c̶i̶a̶l̶.̶ Edit: Parent more than likely meant Musk as replies to this comment explained, I should have figured that out but it's too late or early or some other excuse.
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    I assumed GP was referring to Musk. No one voted for him, but he can crash a presidental press meeting to ramble about DOGE propoganda. But it is hard to tell. They are cut from he same cloth after all, simply separated by a generation of figuring out how to squeeze more out of their labor.
    - kennysoona 2y ago
      Yeah I agree parent meant Musk. It really is bizarre the power he's been handed. Crazy the party that supposedly backs 'small government' is fine with that even if it takes the form of an unelected fool billionaire being given unreasonable amounts of power and doing nothing but causing damage.

jajko 2y ago

> Both Nokia and Skype went under due to usual European leadership stagnation and comfort before getting bought. Thankfully both sales funneled enough funds into EU to bootstrap a startup culture here. What? None of those were EU government owned, all was private. Do people really have this sort of (completely incorrect) view on how things work in Europe? Not even donald was ever stating such ridiculous things

wqaatwt 2y ago
Who said they were government owned though? Stagnation and risk averseness is pretty much the default when it comes to most major European companies. In almost any sector.
- jajko 2y ago
  Not true, just some cheap internet meme for people too lazy to bother understanding economics and different principles US and European societies and markets work on. And the claim of parent that income from sales would go to EU, which is not true, it went to Nokia owners who aren't in any meaning 'EU'. Its like saying any sale of any US private company to some foreign one goes to trump and his government. Your post is typical lazy propagation of trivially verifiable made up claims, not sure even by whom or for what purpose, but this forum has higher standards
  - wqaatwt 2y ago
    > different principles Yes, risk aversion. Of course there are highly innovative and successful companies in Europe, but they are usually highly specialized or an exception to the rule. It wasn’t always the case of course, but the last ~15 years or so have been a disaster. > verifiable made up claims Well yes, it’s rather easily verifiable. The biggest “tech” company in the EU is SAP after all. It’s a but confusing is your comment supposed to be sarcasm? Otherwise how exactly are my claims “made up”? > would go to EU, which is not true, it went to Nokia owners who aren't in any meaning 'EU It’s very obvious that they didn’t mean that especially if you read what they said next. Not sure how one can misinterpret it.