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Car manufacturers have total control over how users use their devices. If you want to change any of that, you have to start making hardware changes. You can do

Car manufacturers have total control over how users use their devices. If you want to change any of that, you have to start making hardware changes. You can do that with an Apple device also, if you have the skills. But why?

Dylan16807 2y ago
Nobody has those skills because of how hostile they've made it to modification. That's the problem. And the more car manufacturers do similar things, they more they become the problem too and laws need to get involved.
- carlosjobim 2y ago
  > That's the problem. That's not their problem.
  - Dylan16807 2y ago
    If they want to do a sale rather than a rental, it should be their problem.
kennysoona 2y ago
> Car manufacturers have total control over how users use their devices. If you want to change any of that, you have to start making hardware changes. Cars are not phones, and your analogy here is missing the point. No one should have to make hardware modifications because they want to put code on their computer without paying Apple for the privilege. It's not more complicated than that. As I said, you can still have your device in nanny mode if you need it.
- carlosjobim 2y ago
  Step one: Bore out one of your cylinders. Step two: Your car breaks down, because everything in the engine is connected and finely tuned by the microsecond to function as one integral unit. Step three: Blame Toyota and petition the EU to force Toyota to help you bore out your cylinder. That's pretty much the equivalent. You hackers already have hundreds of Linux distros that are destroyed-on-deilvery because of the endless tinkering and programmer-first mindset. There's Android, Windows, and a plethora of other systems for you. Why can't we have at least one computer (Mac) and one phone (iPhone) that is not destroyed by FOSS and corporate people, and is actually useful for normal people who want to get things done? I don't get it. Why don't you direct your efforts into fixing Linux or Android? Then you wouldn't have to think about Apple and their devices.
  - kennysoona 2y ago
    > That's pretty much the equivalent. No, it isn't. Your example is not analogous at all. No one wanting to sideload is talking about blaming Apple for anything, this is purely an invented argument because your excuse of vulnerable family members doesn't hold up. > You hackers already have hundreds of Linux distros that are destroyed-on-deilvery because of the endless tinkering and programmer-first mindset. There's Android, Windows, and a plethora of other systems for you. Irrelevant. An iPhone is a computer, a far more general purpose computer as opposed to something like a playstation (although I believe that should be open enough that people can put Linux on it as with the PS3). It's simply unacceptable that a manufacturer dictates the code we can run on hardware we paid for. That's it. > Why can't we have at least one computer (Mac) and one phone (iPhone) that is not destroyed by FOSS and corporate people Giving people extra freedom isn't 'destroying' anything. Your concerns are incredibly misplaced. > and is actually useful for normal people who want to get things done? Your iPhone won't be any less useful if people can sideload apps on it. Your concerns are incredibly misplaced. > I don't get it. Why don't you direct your efforts into fixing Linux or Android? Then you wouldn't have to think about Apple and their devices. People are not just randomly wanting to tinker, they want to get full functionality out of the hardware they already paid for.
    - carlosjobim 2y ago
      > hardware we paid for. > the hardware they already paid for. There's no rule saying you are only allowed to have one piece of hardware. You can also buy an Android phone for cheap for your uses where you find iOS lacking. There is always an assumption here on HN that you are only allowed one of anything, and that you have to stick to that for life. Whether that is software or hardware. I have Android devices and Apple devices, because even though Android is destroyed as an operating system, there are some hardware features that Apple doesn't offer. I assume you've already heard the argument that nobody is forced to buy Apple hardware, so I'll skip that. Just remember that you can have two phones if you want, or as many as you please.
      - kennysoona 2y ago

Dylan16807 2y ago

Nobody has those skills because of how hostile they've made it to modification. That's the problem. And the more car manufacturers do similar things, they more they become the problem too and laws need to get involved.

carlosjobim 2y ago
> That's the problem. That's not their problem.
- Dylan16807 2y ago
  If they want to do a sale rather than a rental, it should be their problem.

kennysoona 2y ago

> Car manufacturers have total control over how users use their devices. If you want to change any of that, you have to start making hardware changes. Cars are not phones, and your analogy here is missing the point. No one should have to make hardware modifications because they want to put code on their computer without paying Apple for the privilege. It's not more complicated than that. As I said, you can still have your device in nanny mode if you need it.

carlosjobim 2y ago
Step one: Bore out one of your cylinders. Step two: Your car breaks down, because everything in the engine is connected and finely tuned by the microsecond to function as one integral unit. Step three: Blame Toyota and petition the EU to force Toyota to help you bore out your cylinder. That's pretty much the equivalent. You hackers already have hundreds of Linux distros that are destroyed-on-deilvery because of the endless tinkering and programmer-first mindset. There's Android, Windows, and a plethora of other systems for you. Why can't we have at least one computer (Mac) and one phone (iPhone) that is not destroyed by FOSS and corporate people, and is actually useful for normal people who want to get things done? I don't get it. Why don't you direct your efforts into fixing Linux or Android? Then you wouldn't have to think about Apple and their devices.
- kennysoona 2y ago
  > That's pretty much the equivalent. No, it isn't. Your example is not analogous at all. No one wanting to sideload is talking about blaming Apple for anything, this is purely an invented argument because your excuse of vulnerable family members doesn't hold up. > You hackers already have hundreds of Linux distros that are destroyed-on-deilvery because of the endless tinkering and programmer-first mindset. There's Android, Windows, and a plethora of other systems for you. Irrelevant. An iPhone is a computer, a far more general purpose computer as opposed to something like a playstation (although I believe that should be open enough that people can put Linux on it as with the PS3). It's simply unacceptable that a manufacturer dictates the code we can run on hardware we paid for. That's it. > Why can't we have at least one computer (Mac) and one phone (iPhone) that is not destroyed by FOSS and corporate people Giving people extra freedom isn't 'destroying' anything. Your concerns are incredibly misplaced. > and is actually useful for normal people who want to get things done? Your iPhone won't be any less useful if people can sideload apps on it. Your concerns are incredibly misplaced. > I don't get it. Why don't you direct your efforts into fixing Linux or Android? Then you wouldn't have to think about Apple and their devices. People are not just randomly wanting to tinker, they want to get full functionality out of the hardware they already paid for.
  - carlosjobim 2y ago
    > hardware we paid for. > the hardware they already paid for. There's no rule saying you are only allowed to have one piece of hardware. You can also buy an Android phone for cheap for your uses where you find iOS lacking. There is always an assumption here on HN that you are only allowed one of anything, and that you have to stick to that for life. Whether that is software or hardware. I have Android devices and Apple devices, because even though Android is destroyed as an operating system, there are some hardware features that Apple doesn't offer. I assume you've already heard the argument that nobody is forced to buy Apple hardware, so I'll skip that. Just remember that you can have two phones if you want, or as many as you please.
    - kennysoona 2y ago