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I drive a VW ID.4. It's profitable for VW (modulo some boondoggles early on in production), and it's the best car I've ever driven, even solid for road trips.

by i80and 2y ago

I drive a VW ID.4. It's profitable for VW (modulo some boondoggles early on in production), and it's the best car I've ever driven, even solid for road trips. If I wanted, I could have gotten a Hyundai or a Chevy equally well. Tesla just isn't the only or even best game in town, and hasn't been for years.

averageRoyalty 2y ago
> If I wanted, I could have gotten a Hyundai or a Chevy equally well. Tesla just isn't the only or even best game in town, and hasn't been for years I'm yet to find an EV with the same range, acceleration and price point as the model 3 LR. Many seem to beat it on two but not three points. The Polstar is close. The ID.4 has less range, double the time 0-100 and (prices not confirmed yet in Australia but) expected to be $10-20k more expensive.
- cmrdporcupine 2y ago
  You don't need 0-60 in under 6 seconds. I say this as a driver of a Polestar. It's just silly. In fact it's mostly dangerous. I won't pay for the upgrade to the "performance" package because 4.5 seconds is already crazy enough. Also consider we non-Tesla owners get luxuries like an actual dashboard, turn stalk... and body panels that fit together properly.
  - gottorf 2y ago
    > an actual dashboard My biggest dislike in Teslas. I won't entertain buying one until they decide that an iPad is not in fact an appropriate way to handle user interface in a car...
  - TheBozzCL 2y ago
    TBH, this is something that scares me about Teslas. Most people can’t handle a car that accelerates that fast. Granted, I know they have safety features that prevent you from running over people… but safeguards fail, this is just a game we shouldn’t be playing at all. On the track? Go crazy. Long stretches of road by yourself? It’s your life, just don’t crash and don’t get caught. Around other people, though?
  - averageRoyalty 2y ago
    > Also consider we non-Tesla owners get luxuries like an actual dashboard, turn stalk... and body panels that fit together properly Personally speaking I have an indicator stalk, I like the minimal cockpit and my panels fit fine.
- freejazz 2y ago
  In a thread about cynicism, a poster wonders why don't more cars come with dangerous features
- Marsymars 2y ago
  I'd bet that you could pick three points about any EV where the model 3 LR is only able to beat the alternative on two of the three.
  - fred_is_fred 2y ago
    For example The ID.4 has body work that lines up and paint that is the same color.
  - averageRoyalty 2y ago
    Completely agree, but these are the things I'm personally interested in, and we're discussing "best", which is subjective.
- r00fus 2y ago
  Acceleration? Anything with 6s or faster 0-60 is plenty fast unless you're just measuring dick size. Actual range is matched by Hyundai/Kia EVs, and pricing is quite good as well (especially used). Also these vehicles support V2L, charge faster, and Don't get me wrong - Tesla has some amazing tech, but they blew their lead in the past few years on that useless Cybertruck instead of iterating their most popular models.
  - averageRoyalty 2y ago
    > Acceleration? Anything with 6s or faster 0-60 is plenty fast unless you're just measuring dick size. "Fun", is my reasoning, the same reason (I assume) why most people buy fast cars. > Also these vehicles support V2L, charge faster V2L doesn't interest me. My understanding is in North America charging is an issue, but in Australia mine charges at 250KW. > Don't get me wrong - Tesla has some amazing tech, but they blew their lead in the past few years on that useless Cybertruck instead of iterating their most popular models. Completely agree RE the cybetruvk - a small "model 2" would be a market changer, cybertruck is weird Elon wank. But every other electric I've driven so far I find inferior, I'm not sure they've lost their lead yet.
    - r00fus 2y ago
      Fast is a single feature that a car has. The target market that values "very fast" over "fast enough" is much smaller than the opposite.
tapoxi 2y ago
I also own an ID4, I'm actually on my second lease (had a 2021, now a 2024). I originally had some skepticism from friends since I went non-Tesla, but I love the car. I also appreciate that it's not tied to Musk (and has Android Auto).
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  The ID4 software is so bad VW is basically buying rivian. I don't factor politics into car purchases, just value for money.
  - tapoxi 2y ago
    I use Android Auto so even if it were bad, I never really use what's natively in the car.
aianus 2y ago
My friend’s Tesla drives itself with no hands on the steering wheel from door to door. It is a totally different product category than a regular EV from VW, come on.

by i80and 2y ago

averageRoyalty 2y ago

> If I wanted, I could have gotten a Hyundai or a Chevy equally well. Tesla just isn't the only or even best game in town, and hasn't been for years I'm yet to find an EV with the same range, acceleration and price point as the model 3 LR. Many seem to beat it on two but not three points. The Polstar is close. The ID.4 has less range, double the time 0-100 and (prices not confirmed yet in Australia but) expected to be $10-20k more expensive.

cmrdporcupine 2y ago
You don't need 0-60 in under 6 seconds. I say this as a driver of a Polestar. It's just silly. In fact it's mostly dangerous. I won't pay for the upgrade to the "performance" package because 4.5 seconds is already crazy enough. Also consider we non-Tesla owners get luxuries like an actual dashboard, turn stalk... and body panels that fit together properly.
- gottorf 2y ago
  > an actual dashboard My biggest dislike in Teslas. I won't entertain buying one until they decide that an iPad is not in fact an appropriate way to handle user interface in a car...
- TheBozzCL 2y ago
  TBH, this is something that scares me about Teslas. Most people can’t handle a car that accelerates that fast. Granted, I know they have safety features that prevent you from running over people… but safeguards fail, this is just a game we shouldn’t be playing at all. On the track? Go crazy. Long stretches of road by yourself? It’s your life, just don’t crash and don’t get caught. Around other people, though?
- averageRoyalty 2y ago
  > Also consider we non-Tesla owners get luxuries like an actual dashboard, turn stalk... and body panels that fit together properly Personally speaking I have an indicator stalk, I like the minimal cockpit and my panels fit fine.
freejazz 2y ago
In a thread about cynicism, a poster wonders why don't more cars come with dangerous features
Marsymars 2y ago
I'd bet that you could pick three points about any EV where the model 3 LR is only able to beat the alternative on two of the three.
- fred_is_fred 2y ago
  For example The ID.4 has body work that lines up and paint that is the same color.
- averageRoyalty 2y ago
  Completely agree, but these are the things I'm personally interested in, and we're discussing "best", which is subjective.
r00fus 2y ago
Acceleration? Anything with 6s or faster 0-60 is plenty fast unless you're just measuring dick size. Actual range is matched by Hyundai/Kia EVs, and pricing is quite good as well (especially used). Also these vehicles support V2L, charge faster, and Don't get me wrong - Tesla has some amazing tech, but they blew their lead in the past few years on that useless Cybertruck instead of iterating their most popular models.
- averageRoyalty 2y ago
  > Acceleration? Anything with 6s or faster 0-60 is plenty fast unless you're just measuring dick size. "Fun", is my reasoning, the same reason (I assume) why most people buy fast cars. > Also these vehicles support V2L, charge faster V2L doesn't interest me. My understanding is in North America charging is an issue, but in Australia mine charges at 250KW. > Don't get me wrong - Tesla has some amazing tech, but they blew their lead in the past few years on that useless Cybertruck instead of iterating their most popular models. Completely agree RE the cybetruvk - a small "model 2" would be a market changer, cybertruck is weird Elon wank. But every other electric I've driven so far I find inferior, I'm not sure they've lost their lead yet.
  - r00fus 2y ago
    Fast is a single feature that a car has. The target market that values "very fast" over "fast enough" is much smaller than the opposite.

tapoxi 2y ago

I also own an ID4, I'm actually on my second lease (had a 2021, now a 2024). I originally had some skepticism from friends since I went non-Tesla, but I love the car. I also appreciate that it's not tied to Musk (and has Android Auto).

throwaway48476 2y ago
The ID4 software is so bad VW is basically buying rivian. I don't factor politics into car purchases, just value for money.
- tapoxi 2y ago
  I use Android Auto so even if it were bad, I never really use what's natively in the car.

aianus 2y ago

My friend’s Tesla drives itself with no hands on the steering wheel from door to door. It is a totally different product category than a regular EV from VW, come on.