4 ms·

Given that this administration has made it crystal clear that they want to invalidate birthright citizenship, every US citizen reading this should seriously ask

by clipsy 2y ago

Given that this administration has made it crystal clear that they want to invalidate birthright citizenship, every US citizen reading this should seriously ask themselves: How would you prove that you're a citizen?

nathanaldensr 2y ago
Why is that a difficult question to answer? Nearly all adults have Star ID driver licenses that are basically as good as passports for that very purpose. Required documentation is consistent and easily acquired. In general, birth certificate record-keeping is extremely reliable in the US. That's not the case everywhere, though; the Philippines, for example, is notorious for easily being able to acquire fake birth certificates. In other words, Trump and DOGE have absolutely nothing to do with proving citizenship. You're just angry and emotional.
- donohoe 2y ago
  You didn’t read the article as it demonstrated why the points you raise are wrong. Try again.
- happytoexplain 2y ago
  >You're just angry and emotional. Just skip this part.
- sympil 2y ago
  My birth certificate prominently has this written on the top: Can not be used to determine citizenship. I’m a natural born U.S. citizen.
  - Kon-Peki 2y ago
    Foreign diplomatic personnel stationed in the US sometimes have babies while in the US. These children get the same birth certificates as any other child born in the US, but they are not citizens. Ergo, a birth certificate is not proof of citizenship. I’d be willing to bet that >99.999% of people with US birth certificates are citizens, but it most certainly is not 100%.
    - sympil 2y ago
      The person I responded to thinks a birth certificate is sufficient to prove citizenship. My birth certificate can not be used to establish citizenship even though it was issued by the U.S. government and I’m a natural born U.S. citizen.
    - marssaxman 2y ago
      It works the other way, too; I know a guy whose parents were US diplomatic personnel stationed in Tehran at the time of his birth. His US passport says he's from Iran, which is technically true, though he's not Iranian and he's never held Iranian citizenship.
      - Kon-Peki 2y ago
        In such cases, there is usually a “consular report of a birth abroad” that the embassy sends to Washington and the parents get a copy of. Military servicemembers also frequently get this. It’s not required to be done by any means and it is not a birth certificate though it can usually be used in place of one. But! I think it may be the only document issued about a birth that is proof of US citizenship. And, paradoxically, is not available to people born inside the US.
        sympil 2y ago
        I got my certificate of citizenship a few days after birth. I believe anyone can get this but almost no one has heard of this.
- ivewonyoung 2y ago
  You can get a valid star ID driver license with a work visa, at least in one state if not more. It has nothing to do with citizenship.
- clipsy 2y ago
  > Why is that a difficult question to answer? Nearly all adults have Star ID driver licenses that are basically as good as passports for that very purpose. I have such a driver's license; it did not require me to "prove citizenship." > Required documentation is consistent and easily acquired. It's relatively easy for me to prove I was born in the US (birth certificate), but one of my parents was born at home and the other was born at a hospital that no longer exists -- if I can't prove citizenship based on my birth certificate, please tell me how exactly I can prove it? > You're just angry and emotional. One of us certainly is.
  - pixxel 2y ago
    [dead]
- JohnFen 2y ago
  > Nearly all adults have Star ID driver licenses that are basically as good as passports for that very purpose. Do they? Most people I know well enough to know this about them don't have one. The most recent statistic I could find is from last September, where the DHS was predicting that about 60% of people will have a Real ID by this March. https://www.govexec.com/management/2024/09/tsa-proposes-softer-rollout-real-id-enforcement/399501/ https://www.govexec.com/management/2024/09/tsa-proposes-soft...
_9za9 2y ago
It has nothing to do with US Citizens. According to estimates from the Pew Research Center and the Center for Migration Studies, roughly 250,000 to 400,000 children are born each year in the U.S. to undocumented immigrants, virtually all of whom receive citizenship at birth under the 14th Amendment. The underlying issue is the exploitation of a legal loophole that currently incentivizes unlawful entry and exploitation. https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2015/09/28/modern-immigration-wave-brings-59-million-to-u-s-driving-population-growth-and-change-through-2065/ https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2015/09/28/mo...
- defrost 2y ago
  Can you quote the text that supports your claim from the linked 'source'? What I did find there was: This report’s estimates and projections of foreign-born residents in the U.S. comprise both legal and unauthorized immigrants. However, the numbers for each status group are not broken out separately except where stated. As an aside; useful data: Number of births in the United States from 1990 to 2022 https://www.statista.com/statistics/195908/number-of-births-in-the-united-states-since-1990/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/195908/number-of-births-... ( ~ 4 million per annum, now fallen to 3.5 million per annum ) Births were to foreign-born mothers (2000 - 2022) In 2000, 21 percent of births were to foreign-born mothers, according to data from the Annie E. Casey Foundation. This number has fluctuated slightly throughout the years, peaking at 25 percent in 2006. It decreased to 21 percent in 2021 before increasing to 24 percent in 2023. It's important to note that this data does not differentiate between illegal and legal foreign-born mothers and includes mothers from Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands. - https://www.newsweek.com/birthright-citizenship-donald-trump-executive-order-2017995 https://www.newsweek.com/birthright-citizenship-donald-trump...
- maxerickson 2y ago
  It's not a loophole, it's the plain text of a constitutional amendment. More or less all sources that provide context for what they might have meant support the plain reading.
  - VOIPThrowaway 2y ago
kcplate 2y ago
Yes, the obvious goal here is to invalidate everyone’s US citizenship.
LaundroMat 2y ago
Maybe the next step is the introduction of tests to see whether you are a true American in thought and appearance before an ID is issued.
- Eddy_Viscosity2 2y ago
  Or, that you are only allowed to vote if you can prove you have previously voted for the correct party in a past election. Anything else is unamerican.

by clipsy 2y ago

nathanaldensr 2y ago

Why is that a difficult question to answer? Nearly all adults have Star ID driver licenses that are basically as good as passports for that very purpose. Required documentation is consistent and easily acquired. In general, birth certificate record-keeping is extremely reliable in the US. That's not the case everywhere, though; the Philippines, for example, is notorious for easily being able to acquire fake birth certificates. In other words, Trump and DOGE have absolutely nothing to do with proving citizenship. You're just angry and emotional.

donohoe 2y ago
You didn’t read the article as it demonstrated why the points you raise are wrong. Try again.
happytoexplain 2y ago
>You're just angry and emotional. Just skip this part.
sympil 2y ago
My birth certificate prominently has this written on the top: Can not be used to determine citizenship. I’m a natural born U.S. citizen.
- Kon-Peki 2y ago
  Foreign diplomatic personnel stationed in the US sometimes have babies while in the US. These children get the same birth certificates as any other child born in the US, but they are not citizens. Ergo, a birth certificate is not proof of citizenship. I’d be willing to bet that >99.999% of people with US birth certificates are citizens, but it most certainly is not 100%.
  - sympil 2y ago
    The person I responded to thinks a birth certificate is sufficient to prove citizenship. My birth certificate can not be used to establish citizenship even though it was issued by the U.S. government and I’m a natural born U.S. citizen.
  - marssaxman 2y ago
    It works the other way, too; I know a guy whose parents were US diplomatic personnel stationed in Tehran at the time of his birth. His US passport says he's from Iran, which is technically true, though he's not Iranian and he's never held Iranian citizenship.
    - Kon-Peki 2y ago
      In such cases, there is usually a “consular report of a birth abroad” that the embassy sends to Washington and the parents get a copy of. Military servicemembers also frequently get this. It’s not required to be done by any means and it is not a birth certificate though it can usually be used in place of one. But! I think it may be the only document issued about a birth that is proof of US citizenship. And, paradoxically, is not available to people born inside the US.
      - sympil 2y ago
        I got my certificate of citizenship a few days after birth. I believe anyone can get this but almost no one has heard of this.
ivewonyoung 2y ago
You can get a valid star ID driver license with a work visa, at least in one state if not more. It has nothing to do with citizenship.
clipsy 2y ago
> Why is that a difficult question to answer? Nearly all adults have Star ID driver licenses that are basically as good as passports for that very purpose. I have such a driver's license; it did not require me to "prove citizenship." > Required documentation is consistent and easily acquired. It's relatively easy for me to prove I was born in the US (birth certificate), but one of my parents was born at home and the other was born at a hospital that no longer exists -- if I can't prove citizenship based on my birth certificate, please tell me how exactly I can prove it? > You're just angry and emotional. One of us certainly is.
- pixxel 2y ago
  [dead]
JohnFen 2y ago
> Nearly all adults have Star ID driver licenses that are basically as good as passports for that very purpose. Do they? Most people I know well enough to know this about them don't have one. The most recent statistic I could find is from last September, where the DHS was predicting that about 60% of people will have a Real ID by this March. https://www.govexec.com/management/2024/09/tsa-proposes-softer-rollout-real-id-enforcement/399501/ https://www.govexec.com/management/2024/09/tsa-proposes-soft...

_9za9 2y ago

It has nothing to do with US Citizens. According to estimates from the Pew Research Center and the Center for Migration Studies, roughly 250,000 to 400,000 children are born each year in the U.S. to undocumented immigrants, virtually all of whom receive citizenship at birth under the 14th Amendment. The underlying issue is the exploitation of a legal loophole that currently incentivizes unlawful entry and exploitation. https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2015/09/28/modern-immigration-wave-brings-59-million-to-u-s-driving-population-growth-and-change-through-2065/ https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2015/09/28/mo...

defrost 2y ago
Can you quote the text that supports your claim from the linked 'source'? What I did find there was: This report’s estimates and projections of foreign-born residents in the U.S. comprise both legal and unauthorized immigrants. However, the numbers for each status group are not broken out separately except where stated. As an aside; useful data: Number of births in the United States from 1990 to 2022 https://www.statista.com/statistics/195908/number-of-births-in-the-united-states-since-1990/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/195908/number-of-births-... ( ~ 4 million per annum, now fallen to 3.5 million per annum ) Births were to foreign-born mothers (2000 - 2022) In 2000, 21 percent of births were to foreign-born mothers, according to data from the Annie E. Casey Foundation. This number has fluctuated slightly throughout the years, peaking at 25 percent in 2006. It decreased to 21 percent in 2021 before increasing to 24 percent in 2023. It's important to note that this data does not differentiate between illegal and legal foreign-born mothers and includes mothers from Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands. - https://www.newsweek.com/birthright-citizenship-donald-trump-executive-order-2017995 https://www.newsweek.com/birthright-citizenship-donald-trump...
maxerickson 2y ago
It's not a loophole, it's the plain text of a constitutional amendment. More or less all sources that provide context for what they might have meant support the plain reading.
- VOIPThrowaway 2y ago

kcplate 2y ago

Yes, the obvious goal here is to invalidate everyone’s US citizenship.

LaundroMat 2y ago

Maybe the next step is the introduction of tests to see whether you are a true American in thought and appearance before an ID is issued.

Eddy_Viscosity2 2y ago
Or, that you are only allowed to vote if you can prove you have previously voted for the correct party in a past election. Anything else is unamerican.