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As part of our IoT offerings, we tried quite hard to build devices with mobile connectivity about 7 years ago. This was just as low power 5G, NB-IoT and similar

As part of our IoT offerings, we tried quite hard to build devices with mobile connectivity about 7 years ago. This was just as low power 5G, NB-IoT and similar technologies were going to become a thing. We gave up because it was too much effort for little return, and it was better to focus on doing things with data, rather than collecting it. Even getting prototypes up with powered fanless PCs (SBCs) and Mini-PCIe or M.2 modems was harder than it should have been - you would think it would be easy with off-the-shelf devices and drivers. Small Internet connected devices are still needed, despite the perception that IoT is dead. Mobile networks and the modem supply chain are definitely holding the market back. On the plus side, for stationary powered devices most people are happy to connect to wi-fi. For low power devices, LoRa, with private gateways, seems to be a standard. Mobile that is used in outdoor vehicle and asset tracking is still stuck with fighting with modems as per OP.

jon-wood 2y ago
You might want to take another look, I went through a similar process a couple of years ago, and am now doing it again because our original equipment supplier decided they'd like a life (RIP PC Engines). There's a thriving industry of companies providing fanless ARM based machines either shipping with LTE modems, or with M2 & SIM slots on the board to provide your own. We install in industrial environments where an accessible internet connection is far from a given, having LTE on all our devices means that we can almost always give the device a way to call home. I can strongly recommend Compulab's devices, which you can purchase as a fully assembled unit that just needs a SIM card put in it (I can't recommend the Linux distribution they run, but you're free to flash them with whatever you'd like).
- sumtechguy 2y ago
  > There's a thriving industry of companies providing fanless ARM based machines either shipping with LTE modems, or with M2 & SIM slots on the board to provide your own When I did this about 10 years ago we had quite a number to pick from. Build your own was possible. But that was only because of our organization had the capability and expertise to do it. We settled on 3 off the shelf ones. That was dependent on cost and number of I/O the customer was needing. DiY basically is 'first make your own computer with the ARM/MIPS/x86 chipsets' then 'spin your own special firmware for it'. Then 'build your own ground up linux distro or similar with compiler chain and SDK to work with it'. You may be able to get someone to sell/give you a reference layout/SDK. Then after all of that. You are now ready to add in a modem. Also prepare for the certifications of all the mobile networks you want to run on. Plus software for you to interact with the cell modem. Oh also you need to work on getting yourself provisioned correctly in the mobile networks. When you do for five devices it is a couple hours of playing with an API. But you probably want hundreds of them so be prepared for managing that, plus billing. Oh also you need to manage EoL for your parts. Many IoT installations are looking at you hanging around for 10+ years.
  - astrobe_ 2y ago
    > Also prepare for the certifications of all the mobile networks you want to run on AFAIK the modem maker actually does this. You would rather check that the chip is certified for what you need before you buy. > also you need to work on getting yourself provisioned correctly in the mobile networks AFAIK also, this is a service provided by "virtual operators", companies that pass deals with the main operators and provide advanced services for machine-to-machine uses, for instance. But perhaps these didn't exist 10 years ago. Things really started to move where I operate when they EoL'd copper wires.
    - jon-wood 2y ago
      Yeah, this is all true in my experience. We buy devices with the appropriate Quectel modem for the region, stick a SIM card in from a provider who has relationships with operators worldwide, then ship it to site. Once it gets given some power the device will connect to whatever mobile network has best signal and call home - we don't actually do a lot of international deployments but even within the country it's hugely useful to have SIMs that will happily roam between all the major operators.
- Delphiza 2y ago
  Thanks... I'll have another look. I always assumed that device/modem supply would catch up, but they always seemed held back by the established mobile network operators. Also, covid-related supply-chain issues stopped a lot of products in their tracks. We would waited up to a year for modems in some cases. I suppose that has all flushed through the system by now.
- throwway120385 2y ago
  Seconding this about Compulab. If they made a box with a Marvell CN9130 it would be really nice.
  - transpute 2y ago
    Agreed, would be good to have an alternative to Solidrun. On the consumer side, QNAP offers both a NAS and network switch based on Marvell CN9130.
- transpute 2y ago
  > I can strongly recommend Compulab Thanks for the rec. This board looks promising, including Debian/Yocto support, and they apparently have an option for hardware customization, https://www.compulab.com/products/sbcs/sbc-iot-imx8plus-nxp-i-mx8m-plus-internet-of-things-single-board-computer/ https://www.compulab.com/products/sbcs/sbc-iot-imx8plus-nxp-...
jlarocco 2y ago
Why mobile connectivity instead of Bluetooth? As an end user, I prefer my devices use Bluetooth and a hub device like a phone or laptop, rather than each one have a direct mobile connection.
- crote 2y ago
  Because these aren't regular consumer gadgets. Think more like "lamppost mounted traffic counter", Bluetooth connectivity to a smartphone would be completely useless.
  - tonyarkles 2y ago
    Heh, thanks for that oddly-specific example that is an exact device that I worked on a few years back :)
  - jlarocco 2y ago
    That changes the situation a little bit, but could a bluetooth mesh network of lamppost mounted traffic counters work just as well? Without the hassle of giving them all direct internet connections? I've been playing with bluetooth and looking into the mesh networking a little bit lately, so I'm curious the trade offs and decision making that goes into a real product.

jon-wood 2y ago

You might want to take another look, I went through a similar process a couple of years ago, and am now doing it again because our original equipment supplier decided they'd like a life (RIP PC Engines). There's a thriving industry of companies providing fanless ARM based machines either shipping with LTE modems, or with M2 & SIM slots on the board to provide your own. We install in industrial environments where an accessible internet connection is far from a given, having LTE on all our devices means that we can almost always give the device a way to call home. I can strongly recommend Compulab's devices, which you can purchase as a fully assembled unit that just needs a SIM card put in it (I can't recommend the Linux distribution they run, but you're free to flash them with whatever you'd like).

sumtechguy 2y ago
> There's a thriving industry of companies providing fanless ARM based machines either shipping with LTE modems, or with M2 & SIM slots on the board to provide your own When I did this about 10 years ago we had quite a number to pick from. Build your own was possible. But that was only because of our organization had the capability and expertise to do it. We settled on 3 off the shelf ones. That was dependent on cost and number of I/O the customer was needing. DiY basically is 'first make your own computer with the ARM/MIPS/x86 chipsets' then 'spin your own special firmware for it'. Then 'build your own ground up linux distro or similar with compiler chain and SDK to work with it'. You may be able to get someone to sell/give you a reference layout/SDK. Then after all of that. You are now ready to add in a modem. Also prepare for the certifications of all the mobile networks you want to run on. Plus software for you to interact with the cell modem. Oh also you need to work on getting yourself provisioned correctly in the mobile networks. When you do for five devices it is a couple hours of playing with an API. But you probably want hundreds of them so be prepared for managing that, plus billing. Oh also you need to manage EoL for your parts. Many IoT installations are looking at you hanging around for 10+ years.
- astrobe_ 2y ago
  > Also prepare for the certifications of all the mobile networks you want to run on AFAIK the modem maker actually does this. You would rather check that the chip is certified for what you need before you buy. > also you need to work on getting yourself provisioned correctly in the mobile networks AFAIK also, this is a service provided by "virtual operators", companies that pass deals with the main operators and provide advanced services for machine-to-machine uses, for instance. But perhaps these didn't exist 10 years ago. Things really started to move where I operate when they EoL'd copper wires.
  - jon-wood 2y ago
    Yeah, this is all true in my experience. We buy devices with the appropriate Quectel modem for the region, stick a SIM card in from a provider who has relationships with operators worldwide, then ship it to site. Once it gets given some power the device will connect to whatever mobile network has best signal and call home - we don't actually do a lot of international deployments but even within the country it's hugely useful to have SIMs that will happily roam between all the major operators.
Delphiza 2y ago
Thanks... I'll have another look. I always assumed that device/modem supply would catch up, but they always seemed held back by the established mobile network operators. Also, covid-related supply-chain issues stopped a lot of products in their tracks. We would waited up to a year for modems in some cases. I suppose that has all flushed through the system by now.
throwway120385 2y ago
Seconding this about Compulab. If they made a box with a Marvell CN9130 it would be really nice.
- transpute 2y ago
  Agreed, would be good to have an alternative to Solidrun. On the consumer side, QNAP offers both a NAS and network switch based on Marvell CN9130.
transpute 2y ago
> I can strongly recommend Compulab Thanks for the rec. This board looks promising, including Debian/Yocto support, and they apparently have an option for hardware customization, https://www.compulab.com/products/sbcs/sbc-iot-imx8plus-nxp-i-mx8m-plus-internet-of-things-single-board-computer/ https://www.compulab.com/products/sbcs/sbc-iot-imx8plus-nxp-...

jlarocco 2y ago

Why mobile connectivity instead of Bluetooth? As an end user, I prefer my devices use Bluetooth and a hub device like a phone or laptop, rather than each one have a direct mobile connection.

crote 2y ago
Because these aren't regular consumer gadgets. Think more like "lamppost mounted traffic counter", Bluetooth connectivity to a smartphone would be completely useless.
- tonyarkles 2y ago
  Heh, thanks for that oddly-specific example that is an exact device that I worked on a few years back :)
- jlarocco 2y ago
  That changes the situation a little bit, but could a bluetooth mesh network of lamppost mounted traffic counters work just as well? Without the hassle of giving them all direct internet connections? I've been playing with bluetooth and looking into the mesh networking a little bit lately, so I'm curious the trade offs and decision making that goes into a real product.