5 ms·

And, in a virtual age, what is the point of a physical school? Answer: there is no point.

Kototama 18y ago
Synergy. Relationship. Feedback. Allowing smart people to meet each other today so that they will build the startups of tomorrow.
- gravitycop 18y ago
  All possible online. No? For example, a lot of HN visitors interact here primarily to meet founding partners.
  - Kototama 18y ago
    Possible but not as good as when you interact directly with people (in my view). Direct feedback with teachers is far better than a lot of email exchanges, or than videoconference. Spending a lot of time with other students on the same projects, in the same room and everyday at the university give you the opportunity to know their personality, and how they work. A lot better than doing a project in common with Internet. You also have more opportunities to meet people from other horizons (i.e. non geeks).
    - gravitycop 18y ago
      Direct feedback with teachers is far better than [...] videoconference. Wouldn't that depend upon the quality of the "videoconference"? http://www.google.com/search?q=telepresence+%22eye+contact%22 http://www.google.com/search?q=telepresence+%22eye+contact%2... - in the same room Kind of like ... HP's Halo? http://www.hp.com/halo/introducing.html http://www.hp.com/halo/introducing.html Halo gives the sense of being in the same room together.
gamache 18y ago
Nerd sex.
lliiffee 18y ago
There can be great value in personal interaction. I agree that big lectures like described should and will die off. However, the fastest way to learn anything is to have a series of conversations with an expert. (I guess that could still be reproduced by videochat or something...) I understand this has long been the model in many UK schools. All that said, in a virtual age it is perfectly possible for someone to learn with out any physical school or personal interaction, just slower.
- barry-cotter 18y ago
  <i>There can be great value in personal interaction. I agree that big lectures like described should and will die off. However, the fastest way to learn anything is to have a series of conversations with an expert. (I guess that could still be reproduced by videochat or something...) I understand this has long been the model in many UK schools.</i> The long conversations with an expert are purely an Oxbridge thing, it costs waaay too much to do that for it to be worthwhile for students with less potential/no tradition of doing so.
  - gravitycop 18y ago
    http://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc http://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc
- jimbokun 18y ago
  "(I guess that could still be reproduced by videochat or something...)" Even if it is delivered as videochat, the attention of the instructor is still a limited resource. And this is the value proposition of a 21st century university. I think this change to the MIT lecture format reflects an understanding of this. Now that MIT has made much of its content available as Podcasts, etc., they are looking for ways they can provide more value to the people on campus.
  - lliiffee 18y ago
    Absolutely, and that is great for students. It could be that universities will become more relevant in a digital age. In the past, a student sitting in a gigantic lecture hall didn't have too much advantage over one just reading a book (and not paying tuition). If universities move to giving student 1 on 1 (or N on 1) interaction, someone in a university will have a big advantage over someone outside.
coolnewtoy 18y ago
I've been reading Stanford's Engineering Everywhere lectures, and the thing I'm most impressed about is how much support there is for students: Course-specific computer labs with course-specific lab assistants to help you walk you through problems as you're coming up against them in learning to code! Sections with section leaders who grade your code in front of you and discuss the strengths and weaknesses of your coding style! There is no advantage to a huge lecture hall over a podcast. But in-person mentoring, one-on-one human interaction is the best way to learn if you can afford it.
- gravitycop 18y ago
  in-person mentoring, one-on-one human interaction is the best way to learn if you can afford it. Is it possible to tell the difference between in-person presence and immersive telepresence?
  - tokenadult 18y ago
    Is it possible to tell the difference between in-person presence and immersive telepresence? Yes. I say this as a parent of a pioneer class student in Stanford's EPGY Online High School. I'll acknowledge that the several examples I have seen (not just EPGY OHS) of distance learning courses have far from immersive telepresence, but I think there is evolutionary adaptation to real-world, in-person conversation that isn't taken advantage of by any distance learning communication mode I have seen.
- endtime 18y ago
  Agreed. I'm a TA for a CS course here and we have open office hours where the students can come and do their homework and ask questions as they come up, which I can then answer on the board (I'm not going to say if it's black or white so as not to alienate those who apparently feel strongly about this issue), benefitting not only the student with the question but also whoever else is there. I've had students help each other in my office hours too. That's not something you're going to get with SEE.
orib 18y ago
Answer: It's far easier to talk to someone over a beer when you're in the same building as them. Or to pop up at their office unplanned with a question. Or to work on a project with team members. School isn't all about lectures, and even for lectures, pre-recorded lectures don't let you ask questions.

Synergy. Relationship. Feedback. Allowing smart people to meet each other today so that they will build the startups of tomorrow.

gravitycop 18y ago
All possible online. No? For example, a lot of HN visitors interact here primarily to meet founding partners.
- Kototama 18y ago
  Possible but not as good as when you interact directly with people (in my view). Direct feedback with teachers is far better than a lot of email exchanges, or than videoconference. Spending a lot of time with other students on the same projects, in the same room and everyday at the university give you the opportunity to know their personality, and how they work. A lot better than doing a project in common with Internet. You also have more opportunities to meet people from other horizons (i.e. non geeks).
  - gravitycop 18y ago
    Direct feedback with teachers is far better than [...] videoconference. Wouldn't that depend upon the quality of the "videoconference"? http://www.google.com/search?q=telepresence+%22eye+contact%22 http://www.google.com/search?q=telepresence+%22eye+contact%2... - in the same room Kind of like ... HP's Halo? http://www.hp.com/halo/introducing.html http://www.hp.com/halo/introducing.html Halo gives the sense of being in the same room together.

gamache 18y ago

Nerd sex.

lliiffee 18y ago

There can be great value in personal interaction. I agree that big lectures like described should and will die off. However, the fastest way to learn anything is to have a series of conversations with an expert. (I guess that could still be reproduced by videochat or something...) I understand this has long been the model in many UK schools. All that said, in a virtual age it is perfectly possible for someone to learn with out any physical school or personal interaction, just slower.

barry-cotter 18y ago
<i>There can be great value in personal interaction. I agree that big lectures like described should and will die off. However, the fastest way to learn anything is to have a series of conversations with an expert. (I guess that could still be reproduced by videochat or something...) I understand this has long been the model in many UK schools.</i> The long conversations with an expert are purely an Oxbridge thing, it costs waaay too much to do that for it to be worthwhile for students with less potential/no tradition of doing so.
- gravitycop 18y ago
  http://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc http://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc
jimbokun 18y ago
"(I guess that could still be reproduced by videochat or something...)" Even if it is delivered as videochat, the attention of the instructor is still a limited resource. And this is the value proposition of a 21st century university. I think this change to the MIT lecture format reflects an understanding of this. Now that MIT has made much of its content available as Podcasts, etc., they are looking for ways they can provide more value to the people on campus.
- lliiffee 18y ago
  Absolutely, and that is great for students. It could be that universities will become more relevant in a digital age. In the past, a student sitting in a gigantic lecture hall didn't have too much advantage over one just reading a book (and not paying tuition). If universities move to giving student 1 on 1 (or N on 1) interaction, someone in a university will have a big advantage over someone outside.

coolnewtoy 18y ago

I've been reading Stanford's Engineering Everywhere lectures, and the thing I'm most impressed about is how much support there is for students: Course-specific computer labs with course-specific lab assistants to help you walk you through problems as you're coming up against them in learning to code! Sections with section leaders who grade your code in front of you and discuss the strengths and weaknesses of your coding style! There is no advantage to a huge lecture hall over a podcast. But in-person mentoring, one-on-one human interaction is the best way to learn if you can afford it.

gravitycop 18y ago
in-person mentoring, one-on-one human interaction is the best way to learn if you can afford it. Is it possible to tell the difference between in-person presence and immersive telepresence?
- tokenadult 18y ago
  Is it possible to tell the difference between in-person presence and immersive telepresence? Yes. I say this as a parent of a pioneer class student in Stanford's EPGY Online High School. I'll acknowledge that the several examples I have seen (not just EPGY OHS) of distance learning courses have far from immersive telepresence, but I think there is evolutionary adaptation to real-world, in-person conversation that isn't taken advantage of by any distance learning communication mode I have seen.
endtime 18y ago
Agreed. I'm a TA for a CS course here and we have open office hours where the students can come and do their homework and ask questions as they come up, which I can then answer on the board (I'm not going to say if it's black or white so as not to alienate those who apparently feel strongly about this issue), benefitting not only the student with the question but also whoever else is there. I've had students help each other in my office hours too. That's not something you're going to get with SEE.

orib 18y ago

Answer: It's far easier to talk to someone over a beer when you're in the same building as them. Or to pop up at their office unplanned with a question. Or to work on a project with team members. School isn't all about lectures, and even for lectures, pre-recorded lectures don't let you ask questions.