6 ms·
Toyota completes phase 1 construction of futuristic city
- duxup 2y ago> The city will eventually be home to about 2,000 people. More like a small town? A hotel?
- schiffern 2y ago2,000 people for $10 billion.[1] That's $5 million per person. The future is expensive, but of course the intent is to advance early-stage (ie expensive) technology toward affordability. It sounds like they want to winnow down to the best option among alternate system architectures, so I expect there's a fair bit of infrastructure-level redundancy too. [1] https://apnews.com/article/toyota-city-japan-ai-robotics-eeedfead1830a40688859627829f82e3 https://apnews.com/article/toyota-city-japan-ai-robotics-eee...
- justahuman74 2y agoExperiments always cost more than the at-scale product, perhaps they see it scaling down costs later
- cloudbonsai 2y agoThis "city" is actually more like a Disneyland park, except that their main focus is on to experiment with futuristic commercial ideas/concepts. Here is the list of a few companies that co-invest with Toyota: - Nissin (Instant food company) to "Create and evaluating food environments to inspire new 'food cultures'". - UCC (Japanese coffee maker) to "Explore the potential value of coffee through futuristic cafe experiences". - Daikin Industries (Air conditioner manufacturer) to "Experiment with 'pollen-free spaces'". I don't know exactly what they are trying to test (I guess that they don't know either), but it's meant to be an industrial theme park than a real city with municipal authority.
- Barrin92 2y ago>The future is expensive Although upfront cost for city construction is probably negligible compared to the operating cost over the lifespan of the city. If you have even modest labour, infrastructure and service savings every year for decades to come building smarter probably pays off.
- robin_reala 2y agoSmallest official city in the UK is St. Davids, with ~1,750 people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Davids https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Davids
- frosted-flakes 2y agoThe UK definition of a city is arbitrary and unrelated to the usual meaning of the word. St Davids is objectively a small town.
- walthamstow 2y agoIndeed. Southend was given city status in 2022 simply because their MP was murdered. Croydon is twice the size of Southend and will probably never become a city.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y agoIt’s more like a small scale real life testing ground. Not a city but maybe meant to prove technology and design that can scale to a city. Toyota hasn’t had a great track record with alternative mobility historically - just some quirky experiments - so I’m curious what they’re working on that justified this big investment for this “city”.
- minutillo 2y agoTo be fair, 'Daisuke Toyoda, an executive in charge of the project from the automaker’s founding family, stressed it’s not “a smart city.”'.
- numpad0 2y agoAround 35.22N, 138.91E, right between Mishima and Gotenba in Shizuoka. Up to about 700k m^2 or 7500k sqft, max, about twice as big as the Las Vegas Convention Center or Boeing Everett factory. Used to be a smallish car plant next to a Toyota test track. Not at all an unpopulated area. More or less an institute campus? 0: https://maps.app.goo.gl/HYDD2aF6drR7LuvV9 https://maps.app.goo.gl/HYDD2aF6drR7LuvV9
- erulabs 2y agoIt seems odd to me, abstracting a bit from society as is, that architecture isn’t the main occupation of nation-state level entities. It’s like the single most important defining feature of the cities and yet totally under explored. Anyways I’d love to visit (another) planned city. They’re always amazing and terrible in exactly the inverse of the amazing and terrible in (relatively) unplanned cities.
- readthenotes1 2y agoYou may find this interesting https://www.historyandheadlines.com/east-st-louis-and-the-old-man-river-project/ https://www.historyandheadlines.com/east-st-louis-and-the-ol...
- creer 2y agoArchitecture has a generally modest cost, as compared to the more "as usual" construction. Except when you go nuts like trying to cross a desert. So why "nation-state"? Even the smallest country can and does make architectural and city-planning efforts. The american (not a nation-state) planned cities, usually built by average companies.
- cmarschner 2y agoIt‘s not under-explored at all. Millions of people work in architecture and city planning. Every city has several departments that deal with planning and construction. It‘s just completely dysfunctional. Architecture professors have focused on “innovation” for 100 years and have achieved little. We still flock to the old, 19th century (or older) city centers and love it. We spend thousands to spend a week or two there on holidays. Very few modern places exist where this is the case. In survey after survey, 80% of the people prefer traditional over modern(ist) designs. So the whole profession has failed, since about the introduction of the Bauhaus.
- smokel 2y agoThere's a bit of survivorship bias in your reasoning. The extremely wealthy built beautiful things that we still enjoy. But the horrible places that common people had to call home in the 19th century are not treasured in the same way.
- UberFly 2y agoWhat happens if I move in and sleep on the park bench? Not trying to be snarky, just wondering.
- growt 2y agoCorporations building futuristic cities? We all know how that ends! We’ve seen the movies!
- yareally 2y agoNo need for movies. It happened in real life https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fordl%C3%A2ndia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fordl%C3%A2ndia
- samplatt 2y agoDon't even have to look outside America. Have a read of the history of Pullman, Illinois. The wiki page is disappointingly free of all the racism and what would today be human rights violations that George Pullman implemented at the time.
- lazide 2y agoCan’t make an omelette without breaking some eggs (/s)
- sdesol 2y agoI didn't get the impression that the city was focused on creating housing for Toyota employees; rather, it seemed to be about understanding what will work and what won't. Toyota, like many Asian companies, has many different verticals, and I think whoever better understands the needs of the future will be able to stay relevant. Having Toyota employees as residents just makes sense, since it will be much easier to set expectations.
- Refusing23 2y agoLooks a bit like "Aarhus Ø" in my city. a part of the city that is quite new. https://aarhusoe.dk/media/owqjyq0b/dji_0091.jpg https://aarhusoe.dk/media/owqjyq0b/dji_0091.jpg - the construction site in the corner is done now, its a very very tall building that looks similar to the one in the center - just... very much taller. it's a terribly crowded place, and i hate it - but at least the apartment buildings look different than all the ol 'red brick cubes' from the 40s and 50s we have in the rest of the city (You can see some of them in the background in this picture)
- insane_dreamer 2y agodoesn't look more crowded than what you find in a lot of big cities
- ncr100 2y agoI like the idea of separating utility transport from passenger transport, leaving it underground
- globular-toast 2y agoSure, as long as passenger transport is foot and bicycle. The bin lorry comes once a week, the Amazon van once a day, but people are driving their cars around all day. I don't see how removing utility vehicles would make the slightest difference.
- ncr100 2y agoHmm, I see, that's right!
- insane_dreamer 2y ago> The city will have an underground passageway for deliveries and garbage collection. This would be a great improvement over many cities, though definite drop in QOL for delivery and garbage truck drivers. Though I imagine having it underground makes it much easier to manage with autonomous vehicles.
- veltas 2y agoWorking as a regular delivery driver in sprawling futuristic underground tunnels sounds awesome, not going to lie. To each their own.
- lazide 2y agoJust watch out for the C.H.U.D.s! [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.H.U.D https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.H.U.D.]
- insane_dreamer 2y agoYou make a good point. Away from the noise and traffic -- assuming quiet EVs which they would of course have to be. If it has nice lighting and ventilation.
- hn_user82179 2y agoI wouldn’t enjoy the lack of fresh air, but I think the lack or traffic and (perhaps?) not having to worry about where to park while sprinting to drop off a package in a narrow road would really reduce the stress of that job
- petepete 2y agoI hope vacuum tubes are involved somewhere.
- qwertox 2y ago> The city will have an underground passageway for deliveries and garbage collection. It will test advanced digital technologies and autonomous robots. The passageway for deliveries sounds like the best thing, but garbage maybe not so much. I have a feeling that over time it will degrade into a sewer-like environment (without the water) with foul smells, unless the garbage is really well sealed. Edit: Then again, these underground passageways are way bigger than I expected (shown in the video). I thought those would be just big enough for some rail-based autonomous vehicles. But if people handle the garbage underground, I really wonder if the ventilation is superior as to create a worker-friendly environment. It really looks like some people will spend their day underground delivering packages or collecting garbage.
- flustercan 2y agoIts Japan. I bet you will be able to eat off the ground in there years from now.
- derektank 2y agoMakes me think of Pipedream Labs' concept of a network of tubes with an internal robotic conveyance systems for home/office delivery[1]. It seems like something that large new buildings could benefit from, even without a connection to a broader network. People don't love having to go down to a front desk to pick up packages, property managers don't like handling them, and delivery drivers don't like wandering around trying to find a random unit. Would be interesting to see if it's viable on a larger scale. [1] https://youtu.be/BgMu35T9P9Y https://youtu.be/BgMu35T9P9Y
- twelvechairs 2y agoMakes me think of the Paris pneumatic post system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_pneumatic_post https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_pneumatic_post
- bamboozled 2y agoIf you saw how meticulous Japanese are about disposing of garbage you'd probably be less concerned.
- gbalint 2y ago360 people are moving in? This sounds like a futuristic apartment block, not a futuristic city.
- perching_aix 2y agoHow do you think cities form? People storm them by the millions?
- gbalint 2y agoThe final phase is going to be 2000 people, which is small even for a town, or even for a midsize real estate project inside a city. Calling it a city just feels ridicolous.
- perching_aix 2y agoCool, but that's not the argumentation you started off with. This other argument I do agree with, and more importantly, it fails to qualify as one even according to Japanese administrative definitions (would need to have 50K+ residents). Which I think is the actually important bit, if we want to establish the labeling as misleading. Apartment blocks are typically in the hundred to a few hundred resident range around the world, only really high density developments will crack the thousand residents bar. So to liken it to one is a bit disingenuous in its own right, just the other way around.
- lostlogin 2y agoIt’s going to house 2000 people. This list of largest hotels ends at 28. The 28th largest has 3000 rooms. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_hotels https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_hotels
- DecentShoes 2y agoI'm very sorry to tell you Toyota, but the city of the future will have EVs in it
- jajko 2y agoNear future? Maybe less than you would think, EVs are still financially unreachable and utterly impractical for most of the world. For me they are easily reachable but I just don't find the appeal, the limitations, range anxiety, everything proprietary and not fixable in normal garages, thats not how I run my cars in relatively low cost manner. Buying car shouldn't be emotional decision but a rational one, its not a small investment, for many second biggest in their lives after housing. Far future, certainly ICE cars will be mostly dead, what will come we shall see.
- fragmede 2y agoInteresting POV! Because batteries plus a motor is so easy, electric bicycles and similar are the vehicle to look at, not cars. I know that in the Philippines, EV carts are slowly taking over on certain islands in places where a car doesn't make any financial sense.
- bmicraft 2y agoHaving a lot of slow chargers (ac, very cheap to build) around would solve like 90% of the reason most people (not you) give for not being able to switch: Living in an apartment without chargers. I'm certain we can at least agree that leaving out chargers has at least some measurable impact on the transition.
- beAbU 2y agoIdeally the city of the future will have zero cars but that's just me.
- forum-soon-yuck 2y ago[flagged]
- thinkindie 2y agoit feels more like a business district rather than a city people are willing to live. Soulless, with little green around. Concrete everywhere.
- kkfx 2y agoLadies and Gentleman's maybe it's about time to discuss a thing: - how much raw materials and energy costs building a "smart city"? - how much to operate and evolve, which means rebuild from scratch? My answer is WAY TOO MUCH to been able to do so on scale. The humanity CAN'T live in smart cities period. We need more than 7 earths with only one inhabited to create such monsters. It's about time to understand that the new deal is only possible in small, simple and scalable solutions like homes and sheds with LITTLE infra needed to build and rebuild them. Where local water sources are enough, without needing very long aqueducts, having very large rejects, needing complex road infra etc. That's the possible high-tech future, the smart-home, smart-shed, not smart city. A digital network of desktops, homes, sheds, not some giants datacenters/mainframes/hubs. Try to compute and you'll agree.
- quitit 2y agoI've always been interested to see an EPCOT style city come to life, and it seems odd (as others have mentioned) that this isn't the focus of the state. Similar to Toyota's thinking, EPCOT was originally meant to be a multimodal transport city that utilised new ways to move people about, but that all ended with Disney's death. Many of those transport technologies are simply used in the theme parks today.
- tmtvl 2y agoHaving a car manufacturer design a city is like having a shark design a ship: there's a strong incentive for things to be done poorly. Good planning would heavily involve mixed-use development, reducing the distance to desired amenities (keeping roads small instead of having every block separated by 6 lanes), and a strong focus on mass transit (train, tram, bus). The city of the future would be a 15-minute city covered in solar panels, broken up by public green areas, with every street lined with trees. I imagine it would also be covered mostly in mid-rises.
- bmicraft 2y agoI don't agree about the solar panels, installing them on roofs is massively more expensive than on the ground outside the city.
- tmtvl 2y agoI was thinking it would be better to have solar in the city and wind around it, as turbines make some noise and as the roofs are gonna go unused otherwise. But I can see how putting solar on the roof can make it harder to maintain than having a solar park on the ground. I was also thinking having solar panels above tram lines, but that may not be worth the cost.
- oyatsu_digest 2y agoHi! I'm from Aomori and recently launched a weekly newsletter covering the latest news and interesting happenings in Japan. Last week, we featured Toyota's Woven City as one of our key articles. If you're interested in learning more about Japan, I would greatly appreciate any feedback you have: https://oyatsudigest.beehiiv.com/ https://oyatsudigest.beehiiv.com/. Arigato!
- ekianjo 2y ago> the city will eventually be home to about 2,000 people. More like an over designed village at this scale
- ahaferburg 2y ago> It will have separate roads for autonomous vehicles Not Just Bikes has a video on why that might not be the best idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=040ejWnFkj0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=040ejWnFkj0