4 ms·

I'm sure the stockholders will take a strong stance and replace him as CEO... when he eventually loses favor with the White House. Until then, the brand nose-d

I'm sure the stockholders will take a strong stance and replace him as CEO... when he eventually loses favor with the White House. Until then, the brand nose-dives. The dark humor part is, it's the car owners who are going to suffer most. Stockholders and executives probably already sold enough stock to land on a soft pile of money.

bamboozled 2y ago
He will never be replaced as the CEO IMO. His cult like following is why the share price is what it is. It's unusual but it was only valued so highly because of him. The shareholders would rather see the company bankrupt than lose his "value add". They believe he will turn it all around, maybe he will? The only question that remains is whether or not his brand is still salvageable. I'm leaning towards "no", he has taken things really far now. People are pretty fickle. But he is doing some really extreme things and I think it's going to be hard to walk back. Personally I think the emperor has no clothes but let's see. Based on what China has been doing with EVs, I'm even questioning the narrative that he actually had much to do with kicking off the EV revolution, or whether or not it was going to happen regardless. I think it's the later. China was already going to be the dominant player and was already moving in the EV direction because their dependence on foreign oil wasn't to their benefit.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  > I'm even questioning the narrative that he actually had much to do with kicking off the EV revolution I detest Musk, but Tesla was/is one of CATL's largest customers. Without Tesla, the capital to jumpstart the EV Battery industry within China wouldn't truly exist.
  - mlinhares 2y ago
    Yeah, they would definitely be there eventually but I doubt they would be there now without Tesla, there just wasn't much interest in electric cars back then.
  - blueside 2y ago
    There is no question that Tesla helped accelerate EV adoption in China but BYD's significant battery R&D was already underway and would have happened with or without Elon
    - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
      I rode in an EV BYD taxi in 2016. However, I don’t think EVs would have caught on as fast in China without the Model S setting an example that EVs were viable as full ICE car replacements (they definitely were already there before the Model 3 validated mass market adoption).
      - bamboozled 2y ago
        You have to admit though, there's a difference between saying "never" or "as fast".
        seanmcdirmid 2y ago
        I think the comment I replied to was edited.
  - AtlasBarfed 2y ago
    Come on. The CCP would have backed CATL and BYD regardless, like they have with silicon solar panels and hundreds of other manufacturing segments.
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  > His cult like following is why the share price is what it is. It's unusual but it was only valued so highly because of him. Putting up impressive net income figures better than the other car companies and making the best selling car in the world also helps. Plus SpaceX and Starlink are a success. That kind of track record within 15 years could portend more success in the future. It does not excuse the other failings, but business wise, I don’t see what trepidation shareholders would have had (prior to the recent Nazi and destroying US civilian institutions actions).
  - Fezzik 2y ago
    Wait, what? Scanning every recent year for individual model and/or company total sales Tesla doesn’t even crack the top 10 in any given year. How does Tesla make the best selling car? What am I missing… Edit: I didn’t scan close enough… in 2024 the Y was around the 4th best selling Model.
    - lotsofpulp 2y ago
      In 2023, the Model Y was the best selling car. https://www.jato.com/resources/media-and-press-releases/tesla-model-y-worlds-best-selling-car-2023 https://www.jato.com/resources/media-and-press-releases/tesl... >As anticipated in JATO’s preliminary 2023 results, released in February, the Tesla Model Y made history last year. The midsize SUV secured top position in the global ranking as the first ever pure electric vehicle to lead the global market. And from a business perspective, it was the best selling car amongst the portion of the world with the most money to spend. That is a pretty impressive achievement for any business. >Impressively, the Model Y secured this position without a presence in most emerging markets, where it continues to be unaffordable for the majority of consumers. And Tesla indicates it sold a similar number of Model Ys in 2024, so it very well could hold the same title again. https://ir.tesla.com/press-release/tesla-fourth-quarter-2024-production-deliveries-and-deployments https://ir.tesla.com/press-release/tesla-fourth-quarter-2024...
    - youngtaff 2y ago
      It’s because Tesla doesn’t have many models whereas other can makers have tens of models
- r00fus 2y ago
  > I'm even questioning the narrative that he actually had much to do with kicking off the EV revolution I would argue that Tesla did absolutely push the EV industry in the US. China would have dominated outside the US regardless but Tesla's involvement in China probably moved that timeline forward by a few years.
youngtaff 2y ago
How’s that going to happen… he largely controls the board, owns over 10% of issued shared, people like Ellison own another huge chunk and there’s a bunch of Elon fanbois who own much of the retail stock
- AtlasBarfed 2y ago
  It takes a supermajority to oust the board or the CEO. Must controls about 12% of the company, so the remaining 88% of the stock needs to produce the 2/3s majority. So you effectively need 75% of voters to vote against him. TSLA probably has a large retail segment, and they can't be organized to vote, and generally the TSLA retail crowd is full of Elon fanbois. That leaves institutional investors, and with Musk's alignment with the Trump administration, they are terrified of getting their institutions investigated or harassed. The only way Musk gets ousted is for the stock to drop so far that a margin call is issued on the loans he has taken on the stock. I don't know what that is, but I suspect it is under 100$/share. That might force a selloff by Musk, which combined with the price collapse chasing retail investors away, may provide enough voting power for institutions. Still a big IF. The only other thing would be if board members start resigning, but most of the board is sufficiently amoral and well compensated that it is unlikely. Regulatory intervention isn't happening for four years. Lawsuits? Probably would need executive branch enforcement, and there's always the Trump pardon to wipe anything away.
  - hx8 2y ago
    The thing is, the actual value of ownership the TSLA represents in way over valued. At $100/share a market cap of ~$300B would be set, which is still over valued for a mid sized car manufacturer with a distressed brand. The $200B required to secure a 2/3 majority it would take at $100/share could be better invested else where in the automotive industry. The reason for the current high valuation is because people were betting Tesla would be first to another major tech innovation. Self driving taxis, or electric 18-wheel trucks, or some other new market. The more time Elon spends in Washington DC, the slower Tesla is going to be at realizing these advancements. For $200B you would have a decent shot of actually making a major tech leap in automative and partnering with an existing manufacturer.

bamboozled 2y ago

He will never be replaced as the CEO IMO. His cult like following is why the share price is what it is. It's unusual but it was only valued so highly because of him. The shareholders would rather see the company bankrupt than lose his "value add". They believe he will turn it all around, maybe he will? The only question that remains is whether or not his brand is still salvageable. I'm leaning towards "no", he has taken things really far now. People are pretty fickle. But he is doing some really extreme things and I think it's going to be hard to walk back. Personally I think the emperor has no clothes but let's see. Based on what China has been doing with EVs, I'm even questioning the narrative that he actually had much to do with kicking off the EV revolution, or whether or not it was going to happen regardless. I think it's the later. China was already going to be the dominant player and was already moving in the EV direction because their dependence on foreign oil wasn't to their benefit.

alephnerd 2y ago
> I'm even questioning the narrative that he actually had much to do with kicking off the EV revolution I detest Musk, but Tesla was/is one of CATL's largest customers. Without Tesla, the capital to jumpstart the EV Battery industry within China wouldn't truly exist.
- mlinhares 2y ago
  Yeah, they would definitely be there eventually but I doubt they would be there now without Tesla, there just wasn't much interest in electric cars back then.
- blueside 2y ago
  There is no question that Tesla helped accelerate EV adoption in China but BYD's significant battery R&D was already underway and would have happened with or without Elon
  - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
    I rode in an EV BYD taxi in 2016. However, I don’t think EVs would have caught on as fast in China without the Model S setting an example that EVs were viable as full ICE car replacements (they definitely were already there before the Model 3 validated mass market adoption).
    - bamboozled 2y ago
      You have to admit though, there's a difference between saying "never" or "as fast".
      - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
        I think the comment I replied to was edited.
- AtlasBarfed 2y ago
  Come on. The CCP would have backed CATL and BYD regardless, like they have with silicon solar panels and hundreds of other manufacturing segments.
lotsofpulp 2y ago
> His cult like following is why the share price is what it is. It's unusual but it was only valued so highly because of him. Putting up impressive net income figures better than the other car companies and making the best selling car in the world also helps. Plus SpaceX and Starlink are a success. That kind of track record within 15 years could portend more success in the future. It does not excuse the other failings, but business wise, I don’t see what trepidation shareholders would have had (prior to the recent Nazi and destroying US civilian institutions actions).
- Fezzik 2y ago
  Wait, what? Scanning every recent year for individual model and/or company total sales Tesla doesn’t even crack the top 10 in any given year. How does Tesla make the best selling car? What am I missing… Edit: I didn’t scan close enough… in 2024 the Y was around the 4th best selling Model.
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
    In 2023, the Model Y was the best selling car. https://www.jato.com/resources/media-and-press-releases/tesla-model-y-worlds-best-selling-car-2023 https://www.jato.com/resources/media-and-press-releases/tesl... >As anticipated in JATO’s preliminary 2023 results, released in February, the Tesla Model Y made history last year. The midsize SUV secured top position in the global ranking as the first ever pure electric vehicle to lead the global market. And from a business perspective, it was the best selling car amongst the portion of the world with the most money to spend. That is a pretty impressive achievement for any business. >Impressively, the Model Y secured this position without a presence in most emerging markets, where it continues to be unaffordable for the majority of consumers. And Tesla indicates it sold a similar number of Model Ys in 2024, so it very well could hold the same title again. https://ir.tesla.com/press-release/tesla-fourth-quarter-2024-production-deliveries-and-deployments https://ir.tesla.com/press-release/tesla-fourth-quarter-2024...
  - youngtaff 2y ago
    It’s because Tesla doesn’t have many models whereas other can makers have tens of models
r00fus 2y ago
> I'm even questioning the narrative that he actually had much to do with kicking off the EV revolution I would argue that Tesla did absolutely push the EV industry in the US. China would have dominated outside the US regardless but Tesla's involvement in China probably moved that timeline forward by a few years.

youngtaff 2y ago

How’s that going to happen… he largely controls the board, owns over 10% of issued shared, people like Ellison own another huge chunk and there’s a bunch of Elon fanbois who own much of the retail stock

AtlasBarfed 2y ago
It takes a supermajority to oust the board or the CEO. Must controls about 12% of the company, so the remaining 88% of the stock needs to produce the 2/3s majority. So you effectively need 75% of voters to vote against him. TSLA probably has a large retail segment, and they can't be organized to vote, and generally the TSLA retail crowd is full of Elon fanbois. That leaves institutional investors, and with Musk's alignment with the Trump administration, they are terrified of getting their institutions investigated or harassed. The only way Musk gets ousted is for the stock to drop so far that a margin call is issued on the loans he has taken on the stock. I don't know what that is, but I suspect it is under 100$/share. That might force a selloff by Musk, which combined with the price collapse chasing retail investors away, may provide enough voting power for institutions. Still a big IF. The only other thing would be if board members start resigning, but most of the board is sufficiently amoral and well compensated that it is unlikely. Regulatory intervention isn't happening for four years. Lawsuits? Probably would need executive branch enforcement, and there's always the Trump pardon to wipe anything away.
- hx8 2y ago
  The thing is, the actual value of ownership the TSLA represents in way over valued. At $100/share a market cap of ~$300B would be set, which is still over valued for a mid sized car manufacturer with a distressed brand. The $200B required to secure a 2/3 majority it would take at $100/share could be better invested else where in the automotive industry. The reason for the current high valuation is because people were betting Tesla would be first to another major tech innovation. Self driving taxis, or electric 18-wheel trucks, or some other new market. The more time Elon spends in Washington DC, the slower Tesla is going to be at realizing these advancements. For $200B you would have a decent shot of actually making a major tech leap in automative and partnering with an existing manufacturer.