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So many people who are otherwise functional in society, for whatever reason just can't play well with others when it comes to online communication. This can be

So many people who are otherwise functional in society, for whatever reason just can't play well with others when it comes to online communication. This can be true for both software maintainers and users. People can't just leave their emotions at the door and file a bug report or respond to a help request, without including a little personal jab or passive aggressive snipe. Looking at some of those replies to users, it looks like this guy just couldn't keep himself from including those unnecessary little put downs.

tuesdaynight 2y ago
People say that the most part of communication is nonverbal. If that's true, written communication would be heavily impaired by the lacking of all the visual cues that we use to interpret someone's words. I tend to agree with them, but that's just my personal experience.
- kstrauser 2y ago
  Written text is perfectly capable of communicating all that, as evidenced by zillions of poems, novels, essays, screenplays, etc. No, I counter that the real problem is that some people are either incredibly bad at communicating their real intent, or incredibly good at communicating their inner asshole nature.
JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B 2y ago
It’s off topic but I don’t believe most people are functional in society. I think they are hiding their shitty behavior to themselves and to others, and their true self comes out once in a while. They hide it mostly to their family, but other human beings are treated like NPCs. For example I live in the south of France and people are literally crazy on the road but they still avoid accidents by some kind of miracle. These are people from all sex, color, and age. The good middle-aged white father becomes a fucking moron when his car is turned on. The young new mom who pretends to love her children is speeding on the road like an idiot. Society accepts that or turns its head the other way not to look at it, but it’s definitely around us and I see it every time I go to work.
- toast0 2y ago
  > The young new mom who pretends to love her children is speeding on the road like an idiot. If everyone is crazy on the road, it's best to reduce the exposure to the road. Speeding decreases time spent on the road. Speeding on the road is genius, not stupid.
  - wizzwizz4 2y ago
    Well, no, because speeding increases the energy of potential collisions, and also encourages others to speed. If you have to drive more than once, "speeding" isn't necessarily a dominant strategy.
    - card_zero 2y ago
      Would that change if cars could go fast enough, say mach 3?
      - wizzwizz4 2y ago
        When driving, you want to keep your velocity relative to other cars as low as possible, while retaining your ability to avoid obstacles / not murder cyclists and pedestrians. If cars could go at mach 3, then you'd want to avoid roads entirely: it's not feasible to avoid obstacles at that speed, and you certainly don't want to get hit by shockwaves or – worse – actual cars travelling at such relative velocities. So no, you would have worse problems in this hypothetical.
        card_zero 2y ago
        Yes, or relativistic velocities. I figured that harm due to the energy of the collision is limited by death, while time spent on road tends to zero, but your mention of shockwaves brings to mind that a sufficiently high-energy collision would also be a danger to otherwise uninvolved road users, or residents of nearby towns, so my first assumption was incorrect. (I leave aside the problem of maintaining control of a mach 3 road vehicle as an implementation detail.)
aleph_minus_one 2y ago
> People can't just leave their emotions at the door and file a bug report or respond to a help request, without including a little personal jab or passive aggressive snipe. Looking at some of those replies to users, it looks like this guy just couldn't keep himself from including those unnecessary little put downs. My consideration on this is: A lot of software that at least I write privately is rather a manifestation of some deeper values/opinions that I have. So in some sense the software is just the tip of an iceberg, a manifestation of something deeper. The software might isolatedly be independently useful for other people, but this is not is essence. Its essence is the deeper values/opinions that made the software to be created. In this sense, it is rather the rational thing to expect that most discussions of the software are strongly intertwined with the values/opinions of the programmer, because these form the bottom of the iceberg of the software. P.S. Just to be clear: I am not the kind of person who does personal jabs or passive aggressive snipes.
- bloomingkales 2y ago
  If we stick by what you say, the maintainer may be uninitiated by copycat culture. Forking is a form of it, but so is shameless copying. If a person perceives theft, then they may respond in all kinds of abhorrent ways. Of course, we onlookers will yell out that it’s not that big of a deal in this case, but we can do nothing about the individuals perception. Is this the person’s first time having an idea of theirs taken (appropriately or inappropriately)? Their sense of right and wrong may be just fine (speaking of value systems), but their reaction is intense. There’s either more to the story or baby just experienced a little bit of life, and it hurts. Edit: From the maintainers: Today we found Sublime Text authors just stole the WHOLE repository publishing the theme again, under their name, by replacing ANY reference of original authors with their names. We opened a pull-request to restore the original theme made by us with all the credits. Let's see if they accept it, or they want to keep the stolen repository. As I suspected Watson, the persons perceives theft.
david422 2y ago
> So many people who are otherwise functional in society, for whatever reason just can't play well with others when it comes to online communication. So I run a small game that has a couple thousand active users, and part of that is allowing users to chat via written text. The amount of vitriol some users spew just amazes me. If they acted like that in person, I expect they would get punched in the mouth quite often. I also have a suspicion that some of these people are literally mentally ill, and online is basically where they live.
- tavavex 2y ago
  > I also have a suspicion that some of these people are literally mentally ill, and online is basically where they live. Some of it may be because of this. However, I also think that the absence of risk of being mouth-punched contributes a lot. I feel like lots of people are deeply hateful, distrusting and angry in real life, and the risk of social and legal repercussions is the only thing that's keeping a lid on their disregard for others. I think that if this danger of consequences was removed, they would do unspeakable things.
- kelnos 2y ago
  > I also have a suspicion that some of these people are literally mentally ill, and online is basically where they live. It's certainly reasonable to expect that there are at least some mentally ill people in any decent-sized community, but the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory[0] suggests -- and I agree -- that there are many people who just turn into complete assholes when they are anonymous or semi-anonymous, and can hide behind their computer, tens or hundreds or thousands of miles away from the people they interact with. I don't know the demographics of your game, but this is especially true of teenagers. (But not exclusively true.) [0] https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/green-blackboards-and-other-anomalies https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/green-blackboa...
  - david422 2y ago
    > I don't know the demographics of your game, but this is especially true of teenagers. (But not exclusively true.) It's just a card game, and I expect that the average age is actually quite a bit older. Which is one of the reasons why I am quite surprised at the rhetoric used, because I would have thought that "adults" wouldn't behave that way. I was very wrong.

tuesdaynight 2y ago

People say that the most part of communication is nonverbal. If that's true, written communication would be heavily impaired by the lacking of all the visual cues that we use to interpret someone's words. I tend to agree with them, but that's just my personal experience.

kstrauser 2y ago
Written text is perfectly capable of communicating all that, as evidenced by zillions of poems, novels, essays, screenplays, etc. No, I counter that the real problem is that some people are either incredibly bad at communicating their real intent, or incredibly good at communicating their inner asshole nature.

JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B 2y ago

It’s off topic but I don’t believe most people are functional in society. I think they are hiding their shitty behavior to themselves and to others, and their true self comes out once in a while. They hide it mostly to their family, but other human beings are treated like NPCs. For example I live in the south of France and people are literally crazy on the road but they still avoid accidents by some kind of miracle. These are people from all sex, color, and age. The good middle-aged white father becomes a fucking moron when his car is turned on. The young new mom who pretends to love her children is speeding on the road like an idiot. Society accepts that or turns its head the other way not to look at it, but it’s definitely around us and I see it every time I go to work.

toast0 2y ago
> The young new mom who pretends to love her children is speeding on the road like an idiot. If everyone is crazy on the road, it's best to reduce the exposure to the road. Speeding decreases time spent on the road. Speeding on the road is genius, not stupid.
- wizzwizz4 2y ago
  Well, no, because speeding increases the energy of potential collisions, and also encourages others to speed. If you have to drive more than once, "speeding" isn't necessarily a dominant strategy.
  - card_zero 2y ago
    Would that change if cars could go fast enough, say mach 3?
    - wizzwizz4 2y ago
      When driving, you want to keep your velocity relative to other cars as low as possible, while retaining your ability to avoid obstacles / not murder cyclists and pedestrians. If cars could go at mach 3, then you'd want to avoid roads entirely: it's not feasible to avoid obstacles at that speed, and you certainly don't want to get hit by shockwaves or – worse – actual cars travelling at such relative velocities. So no, you would have worse problems in this hypothetical.
      - card_zero 2y ago
        Yes, or relativistic velocities. I figured that harm due to the energy of the collision is limited by death, while time spent on road tends to zero, but your mention of shockwaves brings to mind that a sufficiently high-energy collision would also be a danger to otherwise uninvolved road users, or residents of nearby towns, so my first assumption was incorrect. (I leave aside the problem of maintaining control of a mach 3 road vehicle as an implementation detail.)

aleph_minus_one 2y ago

> People can't just leave their emotions at the door and file a bug report or respond to a help request, without including a little personal jab or passive aggressive snipe. Looking at some of those replies to users, it looks like this guy just couldn't keep himself from including those unnecessary little put downs. My consideration on this is: A lot of software that at least I write privately is rather a manifestation of some deeper values/opinions that I have. So in some sense the software is just the tip of an iceberg, a manifestation of something deeper. The software might isolatedly be independently useful for other people, but this is not is essence. Its essence is the deeper values/opinions that made the software to be created. In this sense, it is rather the rational thing to expect that most discussions of the software are strongly intertwined with the values/opinions of the programmer, because these form the bottom of the iceberg of the software. P.S. Just to be clear: I am not the kind of person who does personal jabs or passive aggressive snipes.

bloomingkales 2y ago
If we stick by what you say, the maintainer may be uninitiated by copycat culture. Forking is a form of it, but so is shameless copying. If a person perceives theft, then they may respond in all kinds of abhorrent ways. Of course, we onlookers will yell out that it’s not that big of a deal in this case, but we can do nothing about the individuals perception. Is this the person’s first time having an idea of theirs taken (appropriately or inappropriately)? Their sense of right and wrong may be just fine (speaking of value systems), but their reaction is intense. There’s either more to the story or baby just experienced a little bit of life, and it hurts. Edit: From the maintainers: Today we found Sublime Text authors just stole the WHOLE repository publishing the theme again, under their name, by replacing ANY reference of original authors with their names. We opened a pull-request to restore the original theme made by us with all the credits. Let's see if they accept it, or they want to keep the stolen repository. As I suspected Watson, the persons perceives theft.

david422 2y ago

> So many people who are otherwise functional in society, for whatever reason just can't play well with others when it comes to online communication. So I run a small game that has a couple thousand active users, and part of that is allowing users to chat via written text. The amount of vitriol some users spew just amazes me. If they acted like that in person, I expect they would get punched in the mouth quite often. I also have a suspicion that some of these people are literally mentally ill, and online is basically where they live.

tavavex 2y ago
> I also have a suspicion that some of these people are literally mentally ill, and online is basically where they live. Some of it may be because of this. However, I also think that the absence of risk of being mouth-punched contributes a lot. I feel like lots of people are deeply hateful, distrusting and angry in real life, and the risk of social and legal repercussions is the only thing that's keeping a lid on their disregard for others. I think that if this danger of consequences was removed, they would do unspeakable things.
kelnos 2y ago
> I also have a suspicion that some of these people are literally mentally ill, and online is basically where they live. It's certainly reasonable to expect that there are at least some mentally ill people in any decent-sized community, but the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory[0] suggests -- and I agree -- that there are many people who just turn into complete assholes when they are anonymous or semi-anonymous, and can hide behind their computer, tens or hundreds or thousands of miles away from the people they interact with. I don't know the demographics of your game, but this is especially true of teenagers. (But not exclusively true.) [0] https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/green-blackboards-and-other-anomalies https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/green-blackboa...
- david422 2y ago
  > I don't know the demographics of your game, but this is especially true of teenagers. (But not exclusively true.) It's just a card game, and I expect that the average age is actually quite a bit older. Which is one of the reasons why I am quite surprised at the rhetoric used, because I would have thought that "adults" wouldn't behave that way. I was very wrong.