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The article describes why. 2 different db engines (or even instances) can use different file layouts for the same schema. In many was sql is all about divorcin
by kasey_junk 2y ago
The article describes why. 2 different db engines (or even instances) can use different file layouts for the same schema.
In many was sql is all about divorcing the schema from the files.
- tptacek 2y agoAnother way to think about it is that if a SQL schema is a file, so is an Excel spreadsheet template.
- hot_gril 2y agoFile or file layout? Cause both of these are probably stored as files, .sql and .xltx respectively.
- paulddraper 2y agoAn Excel spreadsheet template is an arrangement of rows/columns/cells which is encoded in a XML document which is encoded in a ZIP file archive.
- tptacek 2y agoI don't follow your point.
- paulddraper 2y agoYes, it's a file format. (Kinda a file format inside a file format inside a file format.)
- tptacek 2y ago"Excel" is a file format, but my point is that if a schema is a file format, so are the contents of an Excel spreadsheet.
- atkulp 2y agoIt's interesting that the opening analogy in the post uses an Excel spreadsheet as a great way to explain a database. It's such an easy next step to say the way an xls/ods file is saved is a file format but the column layout in the tabs/tables are the schemas. The court (and the city) playing these games is so scary since it is so biased toward all modern government data being covered by FOIA exemptions.
- ludston 2y agoBut on the other hand, in all database systems the schema is used to determine how the files are laid out. Although I suppose the same thing could be argued for any data that is stored in a file, excepting that a schema is metadata that determines the organisation of data so it's a bit of a special case.
- tptacek 2y agoIn a Microsoft Word document, the section headings also tell Word how to lay out the Word document file.
- hot_gril 2y agoDo you mean that section headings aren't a file layout? That's their entire purpose. Edit: If you're talking about the byte representation only, I don't think section headings indicate the placement of the body's bytes.
- tptacek 2y agoYou have found an argument that proves too much.
- Xelynega 2y agoYea coupled with the courts arguments the interpretation of sections in a document as a "file format" means no files with sections can be released via FOIA requests
- Xelynega 2y agoDoes your interpretation not mean that(coupled with the court ruling that file formats can't be foia'd) any document with sections cannot be requested via FOIA?
- hot_gril 2y agoIf this format is reused across many files, they might want to give the contents of those docs in a different format from the original.
- hot_gril 2y agoThere's a solid chance that the schema gives away what DBMS is being used. But even if it didn't, I'd still call it a file layout in this context.
- tptacek 2y agoSo?
- hot_gril 2y agoSo if you have the schema and the DBMS, you probably know how data is arranged in the files ("files" in the filesystem sense).
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- hyperpape 2y agoThe parent asks "how is it not a file layout" not "can you guess the file layout?" given it. I am a human, you know I have a kidney, but I am not a kidney.
- hot_gril 2y agoIf you send a copy of the code, is that sending the code? If it is, what about sending a copy of the code with a Caesar Shift?
- chaps 2y agoIs your argument that government agencies should also withhold the names of filing cabinet manufacturers? :)
- hot_gril 2y agoJust that it's a file layout. Or even if you strictly define a file layout as say an ext4, NTFS, or FAT file tree, that revealing the schema is revealing the file layout. I don't know why they don't want to reveal file layouts, but for whatever reason, they decided it was "per se" exempt regardless of the security implications.