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As a French, I had previously no opinion on Tesla and I could have bought one. I saw it as a geeky, high-end stuff. But those days I see owning a Tesla as acti
by jblezo 2y ago
As a French, I had previously no opinion on Tesla and I could have bought one. I saw it as a geeky, high-end stuff.
But those days I see owning a Tesla as activism (probably unconsciously). I would preferably buy any another brand rather than being flagged as an Elon-fan in my neighborhood.
- FirmwareBurner 2y ago[flagged]
- aredox 2y ago>getting me from A to B safely and cheaply And how do you expect that to be true when Elon, through his political power, has all regulators under his thumb?
- palata 2y agoYou're entitled to your own opinion, but one of the few things you can do as an individual is choose carefully what you buy. I do care, and I understand why many people do care as well. But again, it's your right not to care.
- FirmwareBurner 2y ago[flagged]
- Juliate 2y agoDepends. If it does harm you, in some way or another, it's not absurd to talk about it. You may not care, but everything we do is a statement about ourselves, consciously or not.
- actionfromafar 2y agoThat flavor of "illness" isn't special at all, it's very normal. Behold any boycott pretty much ever.
- xocnad 2y agoAnd yet you felt the need to inject that viewpoint into a thread where everyone is pointing out their own personal preferences and not telling others what to buy.
- fredrikholm 2y agoYes sir, FirmwareBurner sir! What better person to take advice from than one who refers to his fellows as NPCs with special mental illnesses.
- FirmwareBurner 2y ago[flagged]
- fredrikholm 2y agoThat, or your incessant self-aggrandizing misantrophy rubs me the wrong way. In a flagged thread where you refer to others you don't agree with as having mental illnesses, you try to defend yourself by suggesting that I might have a reading disability.
- FirmwareBurner 2y agoHere's what an impartial LLM has to say about your replies to my arguments using the reasoning deep thinking option: >Please read these comments below. Is fredrikholm correct or did he misinterpret what FirmwareBurner was saying? Would you say fredrikholm was arguing in good or in bad faith towards FirmwareBurner ? >Conclusion Fredrikholm misinterpreted what FirmwareBurner was saying. FirmwareBurner’s criticism was specific to people who judge others’ buying choices, not a blanket dismissal of everyone who cares about purchases. Fredrikholm’s sarcastic reply exaggerates and distorts this into a broader attack, missing the clarification FirmwareBurner provided in response to palata. Thus, fredrikholm did not correctly interpret FirmwareBurner’s intended meaning. Fredrikholm’s comment leans heavily toward bad faith. The sarcastic tone, misrepresentation of FirmwareBurner’s position, and reliance on a personal jab rather than substantive rebuttal indicate a lack of sincere engagement. While online miscommunication or emotional reactions could explain some of this, the overall approach—especially ignoring the clarification and contributing nothing constructive—suggests fredrikholm was not arguing in good faith toward FirmwareBurner. In other words, you've been caught acting as what youngsters refer to as "a roach bitch" in the comments mate.
- anonzzzies 2y agoIf it harms others or me, I will tell you about it. You can ignore it from a distance, but if you tend to purchase those things, the illness is not in my head.
- palata 2y ago> You need special flavor of mental illness to ... I did not downvote you before, because I believe it's your right not to care (even though I disagree). But being so far away from understanding why people may care as to say that they "need special flavor of mental illness"... you are the one who seemingly needs to learn about the world.
- Dlooooloo 2y agoWow that's even more ignorant. Not bad not bad But you know at the end of the day we do life on the same planet. If your spending habit affects me, I do care. I care about CO2 / weather changes, toxin in earth and water, Nazis, genocide etc. You do understand that there are plenty of reasons that you do affect others?!
- solid_fuel 2y ago> I do care about what I buy, I just don't care what others buy and what other people think about the things that I buy. Is that clear now? You need special flavor of mental illness to care and vocalize about the shit other people buy with their own money. Are you fine with someone buying a human slave, then?
- Juliate 2y agoWhen you buy something, you do participate in the cash flow that makes the seller/builder company function. If that company has other activities or influences that you do not agree on, boycotting is not virtue signalling, it's voting with your money. And while protesting some system from a place built with it may not be perfect, it is still better than refraining from protesting at all, if one has reasons to.
- pauletienney 2y agoStrong brands and marketers disagree with your perception of brands. People buy brands, they buy stories, they want to support what they like.
- ddmf 2y agoEven if you see it as a white good and not as activism then surely the fact that the resale value will be much lower may assist your decision, unless you're being an activist and choosing the car specifically for what it stands for, no?
- FirmwareBurner 2y agoWhat about the activism in your comment? I don't own a Tesla but why would you care about what I do with my money?
- randunel 2y agoIt's called silent complicity, have you read the "First, they came for" poem?
- computerthings 2y ago[dead]
- tallanvor 2y agoYou're free to (legally) spend your money how you want, but other people are free to form an impression you and adjust their interactions with you as a result. The car you buy shouldn't subject you to physical violence, but it's perfectly acceptable for people to choose not to associate with you or do business with you as a result and that's a consequence of choices you make.
- FirmwareBurner 2y agoThen I'm happy I don't have shallow friends who judge people based on the car they drive. Did you know VW, BMW, Mercedes and Porsche used slave labor in WW2? What do you say about the owners of those brands?
- tallanvor 2y agoDo you really know that for sure? Have you asked them if they'd think less of you if you bought a Tesla now? I judge people by their actions, not the sins of their parents. The companies you list aren't run by the same people, so your question is irrelevant. If Tesla were to toss out Musk and ensure he has no influence then people would likely stop judging Tesla owners the same way they do today.
- Tesslaaas 2y ago[flagged]
- orwin 2y agoTo me, people who ever said or believed 'vote with your wallet' or 'consumers made their choice' then complained about boycott or people not buying/threatening not to buy specific brands are hypocritical (and those unaware of how hypocritical they are are just idiots, because it's obvious).
- FirmwareBurner 2y agoCount how many things you bought Made in China over the years, purchases that have been directly funding the CCP to commit actual genocide and crimes against humanity for years, then apply your anti-Tesla-owner logic to that fact, then look at the clown you see in the mirror because that's what you are with that logic when you apply it to yourself. And with that egg on your face, hypocrites like you dare lecture people for buying a car brand, just because the company's owner raised his right arm. Two-faced cherry-picking hypocrites. You have no logical arguments, just cheap appeals to emotional manipulation. It's best to be quiet and let people assume you're stupid than talk and remove all doubt. BTW, did you know VW, BMW, Mercedes and Porsche used slave labor in WW2? What do you say about the owners of those brands? Why don't you all hate those users too using the same logic?
- orwin 2y ago> You have no logical arguments, just cheap appeals to emotional manipulation What? i mean, people who argue for "voting with their wallet" and then crying when people do just that are not hypocritical? It seem very factual to me, where is the appeal to emotion? Is it on the "people who can't see how hypocritical it is are idiots" ? Where is the manipulation? I truly think that, i don't see a flaw in my logic there > BTW, did you know VW, BMW, Mercedes and Porsche used slave labor in WW2? What do you say about the owners of those brands? Yes, as did Renault, and i own one (well, i share the ownership of one). Honestly i don't care (like i don't care about people buying Tesla or not), i don't think people should vote with their wallet, i'd rather have people go out and protest or organize, because action is better than passivity. I was never in the "consumer made their choice"/"vote with your wallet" crowd, i always tought it was a discussion closer that people used to avoid thinking about issues. I'm quite happy however than a part of that crowd show how hypocritical they are, and i try to make them remember that. My comment wasn't aimed at you, i couldn't have known you ever said "vote with your wallet", but i make it my duty to remind people who say that they should then shut up about boycotts. But i guess you will probably avoid responding to that comment now that you understand how wrong you are (THIS is emotional manipulation, or a bad attempt at it :D)
- spamizbad 2y agoAh, the irony of suggesting anyone who isn't thoughtlessly consuming is an "NPC" You’re not going to guilt anyone into buying a Tesla.
- Dlooooloo 2y agoNot everyone Posts critisism at Starbucks. And yes people care. They can't always care to different reasons but doing something is better than nothing. But good for you being condescending and making it clear that you don't do anything.
- OtherShrezzing 2y ago> To me, a car is a white good... As long as it fulfills my needs, getting me from A to B safely and cheaply, that's all I care. Given that the resale value is the most significant factor of "cheaply" in a £40,000 asset, a negative brand image is an important factor here - even if you consider your fellow citizens to be NPCs.
- iamacyborg 2y agoI don’t take my microwave out in public.
- FirmwareBurner 2y agoSo then you agree with me that's it's all optics and virtue signaling rather than any ethics based in logic.
- iamacyborg 2y agoI disagree with your assertion that optics and “virtue signalling” are not based in logic.
- FirmwareBurner 2y agoWhat's the logic that you used? I never saw any.
- fhd2 2y agoWhat's wrong with making just one moral choice? Isn't it better than making zero moral choices? People do what they can, based on what they believe is right (which you may well disagree with), their knowledge, skills, money and time available. That may not be all that much, they might be ill informed, but it is _something_. Perfect is the enemy of good. Not giving a cent to Elon Musk seems like a reasonable cause if you believe he's gonna use that money for nefarious things. And at least for the things he's (very) publicly involved in, it's quite easy. Most people doing nefarious things do it in the shadows, and are funded in difficult to understand ways. People judging each other for who they support by giving them money seems fair. You make some great points about what else they would probably see as problematic. This sounds like it could be a fruitful conversation without the name calling.
- graemep 2y agoOut of interest is it his role in American politics or his interference in European politics or other things that you find more annoying. I and British. I do not really feel there is much political significance in what car you buy, but I am definitely annoyed by his attempts to influence British politics (offering a political party a huge donation if they allowed an extremist to join - they turned him down).
- palata 2y agoNot the OP, but to me it's all of it. Just the nazi salutes would be enough for me not to buy Teslas (or StarLink), but at this point I would avoid any US car.
- ffsm8 2y agoFord is based though. I mean the CEO said publicly (on a podcast ) that the Xiaomi Car is better then anything they've ever produced. Now that's a statement! (also the Xiaomi Car has massively under specced breaks. But that's hard to notice as a normal driver as he is)
- cjrp 2y agoI wouldn't say Jim Farley (Ford CEO) is a normal driver; he races vintage cars, modern Mustangs and other things too.
- SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago> Ford is based though. Well. the Wikipedia article on Henry Ford has a whole section entitled "Antisemitism" which starts "Ford was a conspiracy theorist" and details Nazi links. So, what else is new in the world of Car Company tycoons?
- rsynnott 2y agoSee, the critical thing is, Henry Ford is, thankfully, very, very dead. Ford, the modern company, is not run by a 150 year old zombie bigot. It's a very different situation.
- jmcgough 2y agoI know multiple people who've sold their Teslas in the last two years, because they've worried about how people will perceive them for owning a Tesla.
- ulrikrasmussen 2y agoI have a friend who bought a Tesla almost a decade ago. He still owns it, but he is not proud of it and jokingly calls it "the Swasticar".
- whstl 2y agoMy neighbour made a point of telling me he bought his before when I said "good morning". Now he has a cheeky bumper sticker stating it a bit more clearly.
- nntwozz 2y agoMost people soon forget and really don't care about these things. The Volkswagen company originated during the Third Reich in an attempt to create an affordable car for the German people. Volkswagen used both Jewish and non-Jewish forced labor, primarily from eastern Europe. The company operated four concentration camps and eight forced-labor camps on its property. 7 Brands With Nazi Ties That We All Use https://allthatsinteresting.com/major-brands-nazi-collaborators/2 https://allthatsinteresting.com/major-brands-nazi-collaborat...
- marcuschong 2y agoI'd argue that, as horrible as that was, it wasn't as centered in one person as famous and important as Musk. Like buying phones we know were perhaps made by people treated like slaves in China, versus buying something that is represented by one famous person that wants to bring back slavery.
- aredox 2y agoAt least you could buy a VW from 1945 on and not finance the Nazi war machine. But before that? You were a clear collaborator.
- KeplerBoy 2y agoWhat a ridiculous comparison! VW didn't even build cars for consumers during the war years.
- nntwozz 2y agoPeople selling their Teslas afraid of associating with Musk is the topic here and the point I'm making is that the current political climate around this company will be a footnote in history that most people will care little about (if not already). This too shall pass, frankly I think it's a form of cringe virtue signaling. It's also a form of collective punishment, "I won't buy Tesla because I don't like Elon" is certainly a valid opinion, but what about all the workers who have nothing to do with his politics?
- 2y ago
- epolanski 2y agoEven ignoring the Musk thing, Tesla has fierce competition now when it comes to EVs. Both Kia and VW latest models do well against Teslas on range/battery (see the 2025 ID4 or EV models from Kia) e.g.
- LightBug1 2y agoI've been lusting after an ioniq 5 (preferably N). Tesla are not even as cool as Hyundai these days.
- rvnx 2y agoDo you have an opinion of Ioniq vs Mercedes EQS ? Just curious, as these seem really great and want a human opinion.
- raddan 2y agoI have not driven the Mercedes but I have driven the Ioniq. It was a very nice vehicle. The showstopper for me was that it had no rear wiper. This seems like a minor thing, but I live in a part of New England where half of the roads are unpaved and during the winter the paved roads are heavily salted, so a wiper really is a necessity. The newest model now has this, but I already pulled the trigger on a new vehicle. I ended up buying a Chevy Bolt during its final model year. This may be more of a reflection of my own history of buying inexpensive vehicles, but it is the best vehicle I have ever owned. I could not get over the price of the Ioniq. I just needed something that got me from point A to point B, and I wanted something that did so without gasoline. The Bolt far surpassed my requirements, and it was affordable. Honestly, I avoided American-made vehicles for a long time, having had bad experiences with the unreliability of a sequence of Dodges and Fords when I was younger. The Bolt changed my opinion about Chevrolet, although the CarPlay situation is pretty tragic…
- rvnx 2y agoThank you!
- 2y ago