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In principle, I agree. However, I haven't had a tasty apple in ages - they're all way too sweet for my taste. I've been thinking about how modern fruit optimiz

In principle, I agree. However, I haven't had a tasty apple in ages - they're all way too sweet for my taste. I've been thinking about how modern fruit optimize for (among numerous other things) sweetness, and whether modern fruit are actually healthy in terms of glycemic index / glycemic load / etc.

rtpg 2y ago
My SO is basically like "fruits _are_ filled with sugar" and they're not wrong. It feels pretty hard to make strong qualitative judgements on this stuff. Feels better than a snickers bar, surely? The only real thing that feels kind of easy to say is that any sweet drink is probably worse for you than just drinking water. Easiest diet in the world is to just never buy soft drinks, and the extra trick is to also not replace it with orange or apple juice.
- jwagenet 2y ago
  It seems like fruit are preferable due to fiber, sugar content equal.
- aio2 2y ago
  While fruits are packed with sugar, eating fruit also comes with fiber. This extra digestion slows the intake of sugar into the bloodstream, and getting fat/unhealthy from sugar comes from to much of it going through the liver. Because you may have too much sugar at a time, the liver needs help from the pancreas, which secretes insulin to store the sugar, which makes you fat.
  - rtpg 2y ago
    Do you know if there's a good rule of thumb for how different that ratio might be? I do like having some quantitative ballpark to go along with the qualitative texture
    - shorts_theory 2y ago
      You may be interested in the glycemic index [1] which represents how much a particular food causes your blood sugar to spike compared to pure sugar. Based on a cursory search, the GI for an apple is somewhere in the 30s which is way less than a candy bar which can be 70+. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycemic_index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycemic_index
  - rubzah 2y ago
    Most fruits are also somewhat acidic, which helps digestion and insulin sensitivity.
  - devilbunny 2y ago
    This is biologically confused. Fructose is processed by the liver. Glucose stimulates insulin release from the pancreas. Sucrose is one glucose and one fructose, but as you might guess from the name, fruits often contain free fructose. Fiber doesn’t slow sugar absorption by very much. It is better than, say, HFCS, but mostly because you can’t ever eat as many calories as you can drink.
- MrMember 2y ago
  Fruits have sugar but unless you're on a diet that heavily restricts sugar intake it's not an alarming amount. A normal sized apple for example is larger by volume than a Snickers bar but has 1/4 the calories and half the sugar.
- adrian_b 2y ago
  Eating too many fruits can provide too much sugar, but fresh fruits have low sugar content in comparison with any artificial sweet food. Only dried fruits, like raisins, dried figs, dried dates, dried prunes and so on, have high sugar content, well over 50%, so they are comparable with chocolate or candy bars. Most fresh fruits contain only around 10% sugar, with a only a few, like grapes or fresh figs exceeding 15% of sugar (but less than 20%). This means that for most fresh fruits you can eat a half kilogram (or a pound) per day, while still avoiding an excessive sugar intake.
thfuran 2y ago
I know I read several years ago that some zoos were cutting back on the amount of fruit they feed their animals because modern cultvars are too sweet.
FinnLobsien 2y ago
when my parents sold my (passed away) grandfather's farm, they took a sapling of the 150 year old apple tree. Those apples are so delicious. They're tiny and acidic, but the flavors are so complex compared to a supermarket apple that's giant and sweet.
- spiderxxxx 2y ago
  Would have to be a branch that was spliced, and wouldn't be 150 years old, apple trees don't live that long. Either way, the worst office snack IMHO is the apple, the person sitting next to me, taking a big bite, munching with their mouth open.
  - binarycrusader 2y ago
    I raise you one Apple tree estimated to be around 370 years old: https://www.ancienttreeforum.org.uk/ancient-trees/ancient-tree-sites-to-visit/midlands/woolsthorpe-manor-lincolnshire/ https://www.ancienttreeforum.org.uk/ancient-trees/ancient-tr... But yes, most Apple trees seem to stop bearing fruit around 50 years of age max and rarely live beyond 90-100 years as far as I can tell.
  - hkpack 2y ago
    Graft would still produce genetically identical apples.
  - FinnLobsien 2y ago
    Could also be. In any case it was old and the apples tasted like nature intended them to
throw0101c 2y ago
> In principle, I agree. However, I haven't had a tasty apple in ages - they're all way too sweet for my taste. You may be interested in Apple Rankings: * https://applerankings.com https://applerankings.com * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33639206 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33639206
- abcd_f 2y ago
  This is not a very good site though. It's basically "Apple Rankings of Some Random Dude" and not much else.
brnt 2y ago
This. Commercial fruits are as engineered as candy bars. Well.... Almost. In any case, apples are often too sweet. I don't eat candy either.
Propelloni 2y ago
If you like tart apples, try Granny Smith. They are usually harvested a little bit too early, so they are often very sour and very green (the ripe version has a very slight shine of red). Their skin is thick and requires a little effort to chew. I love them.
jajko 2y ago
Where we shop (in western Europe) there are these shiny huge apples, often each of them has a separate sticker. All ultra sweet because, well, people are often stupid and our instincts are too strong for some situations that we didn't yet evolve to handle better. Sugar addiction from early age is one of them. Human liking of sugar developed during times where sweet fruits were rare and no ultra cheap refined sugar or HFCS was discovered. Companies deliver what people buy more. Then at the side there are big bags (~3kg) of these not so appealing small apples with various flaws. These are the ones we buy, either bio or not, and they are much less sweet. They last less, presumably less chemistry within to keep rot away for longer, which is a good (even if annoying) sign.

rtpg 2y ago

My SO is basically like "fruits _are_ filled with sugar" and they're not wrong. It feels pretty hard to make strong qualitative judgements on this stuff. Feels better than a snickers bar, surely? The only real thing that feels kind of easy to say is that any sweet drink is probably worse for you than just drinking water. Easiest diet in the world is to just never buy soft drinks, and the extra trick is to also not replace it with orange or apple juice.

jwagenet 2y ago
It seems like fruit are preferable due to fiber, sugar content equal.
aio2 2y ago
While fruits are packed with sugar, eating fruit also comes with fiber. This extra digestion slows the intake of sugar into the bloodstream, and getting fat/unhealthy from sugar comes from to much of it going through the liver. Because you may have too much sugar at a time, the liver needs help from the pancreas, which secretes insulin to store the sugar, which makes you fat.
- rtpg 2y ago
  Do you know if there's a good rule of thumb for how different that ratio might be? I do like having some quantitative ballpark to go along with the qualitative texture
  - shorts_theory 2y ago
    You may be interested in the glycemic index [1] which represents how much a particular food causes your blood sugar to spike compared to pure sugar. Based on a cursory search, the GI for an apple is somewhere in the 30s which is way less than a candy bar which can be 70+. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycemic_index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycemic_index
- rubzah 2y ago
  Most fruits are also somewhat acidic, which helps digestion and insulin sensitivity.
- devilbunny 2y ago
  This is biologically confused. Fructose is processed by the liver. Glucose stimulates insulin release from the pancreas. Sucrose is one glucose and one fructose, but as you might guess from the name, fruits often contain free fructose. Fiber doesn’t slow sugar absorption by very much. It is better than, say, HFCS, but mostly because you can’t ever eat as many calories as you can drink.
MrMember 2y ago
Fruits have sugar but unless you're on a diet that heavily restricts sugar intake it's not an alarming amount. A normal sized apple for example is larger by volume than a Snickers bar but has 1/4 the calories and half the sugar.
adrian_b 2y ago
Eating too many fruits can provide too much sugar, but fresh fruits have low sugar content in comparison with any artificial sweet food. Only dried fruits, like raisins, dried figs, dried dates, dried prunes and so on, have high sugar content, well over 50%, so they are comparable with chocolate or candy bars. Most fresh fruits contain only around 10% sugar, with a only a few, like grapes or fresh figs exceeding 15% of sugar (but less than 20%). This means that for most fresh fruits you can eat a half kilogram (or a pound) per day, while still avoiding an excessive sugar intake.

thfuran 2y ago

I know I read several years ago that some zoos were cutting back on the amount of fruit they feed their animals because modern cultvars are too sweet.

FinnLobsien 2y ago

when my parents sold my (passed away) grandfather's farm, they took a sapling of the 150 year old apple tree. Those apples are so delicious. They're tiny and acidic, but the flavors are so complex compared to a supermarket apple that's giant and sweet.

spiderxxxx 2y ago
Would have to be a branch that was spliced, and wouldn't be 150 years old, apple trees don't live that long. Either way, the worst office snack IMHO is the apple, the person sitting next to me, taking a big bite, munching with their mouth open.
- binarycrusader 2y ago
  I raise you one Apple tree estimated to be around 370 years old: https://www.ancienttreeforum.org.uk/ancient-trees/ancient-tree-sites-to-visit/midlands/woolsthorpe-manor-lincolnshire/ https://www.ancienttreeforum.org.uk/ancient-trees/ancient-tr... But yes, most Apple trees seem to stop bearing fruit around 50 years of age max and rarely live beyond 90-100 years as far as I can tell.
- hkpack 2y ago
  Graft would still produce genetically identical apples.
- FinnLobsien 2y ago
  Could also be. In any case it was old and the apples tasted like nature intended them to

throw0101c 2y ago

> In principle, I agree. However, I haven't had a tasty apple in ages - they're all way too sweet for my taste. You may be interested in Apple Rankings: * https://applerankings.com https://applerankings.com * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33639206 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33639206

abcd_f 2y ago
This is not a very good site though. It's basically "Apple Rankings of Some Random Dude" and not much else.

brnt 2y ago

This. Commercial fruits are as engineered as candy bars. Well.... Almost. In any case, apples are often too sweet. I don't eat candy either.

Propelloni 2y ago

If you like tart apples, try Granny Smith. They are usually harvested a little bit too early, so they are often very sour and very green (the ripe version has a very slight shine of red). Their skin is thick and requires a little effort to chew. I love them.

jajko 2y ago

Where we shop (in western Europe) there are these shiny huge apples, often each of them has a separate sticker. All ultra sweet because, well, people are often stupid and our instincts are too strong for some situations that we didn't yet evolve to handle better. Sugar addiction from early age is one of them. Human liking of sugar developed during times where sweet fruits were rare and no ultra cheap refined sugar or HFCS was discovered. Companies deliver what people buy more. Then at the side there are big bags (~3kg) of these not so appealing small apples with various flaws. These are the ones we buy, either bio or not, and they are much less sweet. They last less, presumably less chemistry within to keep rot away for longer, which is a good (even if annoying) sign.