5 ms·

I can recommend everyone to read Felix Hill's suicide note on the topic. He was a scientist in DeepMind: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-jBoSEVlryiX1IaSzV4

by 317070 2y ago

I can recommend everyone to read Felix Hill's suicide note on the topic. He was a scientist in DeepMind: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-jBoSEVlryiX1IaSzV4vKuihDfm_LgXUznvSpl1T1kg/mobilebasic https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-jBoSEVlryiX1IaSzV4vKuih...

hn666 2y ago
Fucking hell
- dilawar 2y ago
  Fucking hell indeed. I couldn't read the whole thing, only the first couple of pages.
krthr 2y ago
:o
elric 2y ago
Not quite sure why he thought ketamine would be safer than LSD. Maybe because the local pharmacy carries it?
- tycho-newman 2y ago
  Physician supervised ketamine therapy has worked wonders for people with PTSD, at least one of whom I know personally. Otherwise, street ketamine can be adulterated with anything. It is dangerous.
- almog 2y ago
  My first thought too. Don't know if it would have made any difference in the end result but LSD and Psilocybin Mushrooms are ranked much safer than Ketamine and unlike Ketamine, aren't addictive. When I saw the Psychedelics headline I was expecting these two plus maybe DMT. Some people consider Ketamine as psychedelic drug but it's really a dissociative drug.
- jerrygenser 2y ago
  ketamine has become a very popular party drug in the UK so the stigma might have been significantly less, and therefore the perception of safety
- Grimblewald 2y ago
  well, LSD is not safe either. Of 3 people I took it with, in high dose, for various reasons, only one of us left the encounter better off and largely unscathed. Professional psychiatric help doesn't have great odds either but they're significantly better than an anecdotal 1/4, and when things go wrong people tend to know why and how to help. Leave the research and unproven chemicals to the researchers I guess?
  - randomopining 2y ago
    What happened to the other 3?
    - Grimblewald 2y ago
      It varies, some more benign, like short term legal trouble from acting out while on it, while another went down a darker path, like re-joining a cult they'd left. Perhaps what I view as darker path is their light path though, from what I've seen they seem happy.
afpx 2y ago
That’s really heartbreaking to read, especially the underlying sense of shame. I feel for him. Lamotrigine is worth checking out for those who never tried it. Antidepressants never worked for me either. But, Lamotrigine eliminated the worst of my depression and constant ideation. Apparently, it rarely works for people, but when it does, it works really well (see past HN comments containing “Lamotrigine”).
throwaway33945 2y ago
Reading this, I couldn't help but think that I am the failed version of this guy. My life mirrors his, except mine is shittier in every way. I did not go to any fancy universities. My math career went nowhere. My deep learning career isn't going anywhere, probably. My h-index isn't even a quarter of his. My only gf left me after a week. My childhood was riddled with family illness. My mother died too soon. And I even look like an uglier version of him. And I have been managing depression since 16 (I'm in my early 30s). But, I have always questioned whether I really have depression or whether I am justifiably upset at how shit my life is. I cannot imagine being him and being depressed. But I understand that some people have everything, except happiness and peace of mind. It's so confusing. Thankfully, I don't mess with drugs.
- tossandthrow 2y ago
  From time to time I think most, ambitious, people fall into this trap. The issue is that these are positional goods. Per definition there can only be a single person who is the top contributor of a field of research. Every time I fall into this trap I separate out what is positional goods and what is valuables to me. And then I very deliberately convince myself that it is not worth it to chase positional goods for the sake of doing so. Said in other words: Do research because you like it, not because of the acknowledgement that follows on. (As a side effect many will find that they indeed do not care doo much about research)
  - etrautmann 2y ago
    Well put. Chasing positional goods seems inherently vacuous and lacking in satisfaction. It surprises me that anyone thinks that recognition alone is enough to sustain interest in an academic or research career (or other areas like acting). Looking at who succeeds it seems to be people for whom the recognition is an afterthought.
    - mattgreenrocks 2y ago
      Research is also very taxing on the mind. I'm not sure I could do it for a whole career, as enjoyable as it has been.
iury-sza 2y ago
Thanks for sharing
Willingham 2y ago
The man had all the knowledge necessary for recovery, but faith without works is dead. Happiness cannot be caught directly, it comes to us only as a byproduct through thinking of others and what we can do for them rather than of thinking of ourselves or comparing ourselves to others. Then, following up that right thinking with unselfish constructive action. I have found in my experience this to be an un breakable law of the universe, as true as gravity, and frankly speaking, equally as probable as all things subatomic…
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  > un breakable law of the universe That is precisely the case, for the simple fact that we human beings must live in groups, where we each do different tasks that enable the whole to function. That is why narcissists are NEVER happy. They are simply reaping what they've sown. All these people that think earning money will make them happy are ASLEEP to the fact that we can choose to ignore the truth you have realized. A human being must consciously WAKE UP to the fact that we must choose to help others become happier if we are to become happy. The cool part, because I'm a nerd, is that it's mathematical at heart, as most everything is in this wonderfully constructed universe.
- butlike 2y ago
  You can be happy thinking of yourself; you just might be branded a megalomaniac.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
HyprMusic 2y ago
Wow that hits hard. Anyone that resonates with that letter, please speak to someone. If you're a male in the UK there's Andy's man club[0], which is just a group of normal guys who chat about life - including mental health. You'll hear first hand how close a lot of them came to tapping out but made it through and are glad they did. No matter how bleak it seems, there is a route to something that resembles happiness... you might just need a helping hand from others to get there. [0] https://andysmanclub.co.uk/ https://andysmanclub.co.uk/
ipython 2y ago
And this is why just fucking with the genome via crispr to birth “smarter” babies is such a bad idea. I’m thinking of this recent hacker news post linking to “how to make superbabies”: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43158387 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43158387 (To be clear I’m not saying Felix was gene edited by birth, but rather there may be correlations between the genetic markers that “improve intelligence” and depression)
rozap 2y ago
I came across this the other day. Super tragic. I'm not a user of these substances but I'm not against them either, but this was a dark perspective that I'd never heard of.

by 317070 2y ago

hn666 2y ago

Fucking hell

dilawar 2y ago
Fucking hell indeed. I couldn't read the whole thing, only the first couple of pages.

krthr 2y ago

elric 2y ago

Not quite sure why he thought ketamine would be safer than LSD. Maybe because the local pharmacy carries it?

tycho-newman 2y ago
Physician supervised ketamine therapy has worked wonders for people with PTSD, at least one of whom I know personally. Otherwise, street ketamine can be adulterated with anything. It is dangerous.
almog 2y ago
My first thought too. Don't know if it would have made any difference in the end result but LSD and Psilocybin Mushrooms are ranked much safer than Ketamine and unlike Ketamine, aren't addictive. When I saw the Psychedelics headline I was expecting these two plus maybe DMT. Some people consider Ketamine as psychedelic drug but it's really a dissociative drug.
jerrygenser 2y ago
ketamine has become a very popular party drug in the UK so the stigma might have been significantly less, and therefore the perception of safety
Grimblewald 2y ago
well, LSD is not safe either. Of 3 people I took it with, in high dose, for various reasons, only one of us left the encounter better off and largely unscathed. Professional psychiatric help doesn't have great odds either but they're significantly better than an anecdotal 1/4, and when things go wrong people tend to know why and how to help. Leave the research and unproven chemicals to the researchers I guess?
- randomopining 2y ago
  What happened to the other 3?
  - Grimblewald 2y ago
    It varies, some more benign, like short term legal trouble from acting out while on it, while another went down a darker path, like re-joining a cult they'd left. Perhaps what I view as darker path is their light path though, from what I've seen they seem happy.

afpx 2y ago

That’s really heartbreaking to read, especially the underlying sense of shame. I feel for him. Lamotrigine is worth checking out for those who never tried it. Antidepressants never worked for me either. But, Lamotrigine eliminated the worst of my depression and constant ideation. Apparently, it rarely works for people, but when it does, it works really well (see past HN comments containing “Lamotrigine”).

throwaway33945 2y ago

Reading this, I couldn't help but think that I am the failed version of this guy. My life mirrors his, except mine is shittier in every way. I did not go to any fancy universities. My math career went nowhere. My deep learning career isn't going anywhere, probably. My h-index isn't even a quarter of his. My only gf left me after a week. My childhood was riddled with family illness. My mother died too soon. And I even look like an uglier version of him. And I have been managing depression since 16 (I'm in my early 30s). But, I have always questioned whether I really have depression or whether I am justifiably upset at how shit my life is. I cannot imagine being him and being depressed. But I understand that some people have everything, except happiness and peace of mind. It's so confusing. Thankfully, I don't mess with drugs.

tossandthrow 2y ago
From time to time I think most, ambitious, people fall into this trap. The issue is that these are positional goods. Per definition there can only be a single person who is the top contributor of a field of research. Every time I fall into this trap I separate out what is positional goods and what is valuables to me. And then I very deliberately convince myself that it is not worth it to chase positional goods for the sake of doing so. Said in other words: Do research because you like it, not because of the acknowledgement that follows on. (As a side effect many will find that they indeed do not care doo much about research)
- etrautmann 2y ago
  Well put. Chasing positional goods seems inherently vacuous and lacking in satisfaction. It surprises me that anyone thinks that recognition alone is enough to sustain interest in an academic or research career (or other areas like acting). Looking at who succeeds it seems to be people for whom the recognition is an afterthought.
  - mattgreenrocks 2y ago
    Research is also very taxing on the mind. I'm not sure I could do it for a whole career, as enjoyable as it has been.

iury-sza 2y ago

Thanks for sharing

Willingham 2y ago

The man had all the knowledge necessary for recovery, but faith without works is dead. Happiness cannot be caught directly, it comes to us only as a byproduct through thinking of others and what we can do for them rather than of thinking of ourselves or comparing ourselves to others. Then, following up that right thinking with unselfish constructive action. I have found in my experience this to be an un breakable law of the universe, as true as gravity, and frankly speaking, equally as probable as all things subatomic…

MrMcCall 2y ago
> un breakable law of the universe That is precisely the case, for the simple fact that we human beings must live in groups, where we each do different tasks that enable the whole to function. That is why narcissists are NEVER happy. They are simply reaping what they've sown. All these people that think earning money will make them happy are ASLEEP to the fact that we can choose to ignore the truth you have realized. A human being must consciously WAKE UP to the fact that we must choose to help others become happier if we are to become happy. The cool part, because I'm a nerd, is that it's mathematical at heart, as most everything is in this wonderfully constructed universe.
butlike 2y ago
You can be happy thinking of yourself; you just might be branded a megalomaniac.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

HyprMusic 2y ago

Wow that hits hard. Anyone that resonates with that letter, please speak to someone. If you're a male in the UK there's Andy's man club[0], which is just a group of normal guys who chat about life - including mental health. You'll hear first hand how close a lot of them came to tapping out but made it through and are glad they did. No matter how bleak it seems, there is a route to something that resembles happiness... you might just need a helping hand from others to get there. [0] https://andysmanclub.co.uk/ https://andysmanclub.co.uk/

ipython 2y ago

And this is why just fucking with the genome via crispr to birth “smarter” babies is such a bad idea. I’m thinking of this recent hacker news post linking to “how to make superbabies”: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43158387 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43158387 (To be clear I’m not saying Felix was gene edited by birth, but rather there may be correlations between the genetic markers that “improve intelligence” and depression)

rozap 2y ago

I came across this the other day. Super tragic. I'm not a user of these substances but I'm not against them either, but this was a dark perspective that I'd never heard of.