4 ms·

While I have no real opinion on this, I do have questions: * What type of jobs? * Does the US have the required people, in terms of numbers and skills? * Doe

While I have no real opinion on this, I do have questions: * What type of jobs? * Does the US have the required people, in terms of numbers and skills? * Does this mean moving to US based fabs for the M-series chips? * Is this actually profitable, or is this just a political move?

notahacker 2y ago
And related to your last bullet point: will it actually happen or is floating this just a political move...
- xadhominemx 2y ago
  It will actually happen because it’s nothing new. The 500b is almost all wages for existing US-based employees. They are looking for a carve out from the new China tariffs (same as last time). Note - they made a very similar announcement 4 years ago https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/04/apple-commits-430-billion-in-us-investments-over-five-years/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/04/apple-commits-430-bil...
nottorp 2y ago
And one more: * Will this raise prices for customers outside the US for no justifiable reason?
Aeolun 2y ago
The required people can just be imported from China?
wodenokoto 2y ago
* What type of jobs? - "The 20,000 additional jobs, Apple said, will focus on research and development, silicon engineering and AI." * Does the US have the required people, in terms of numbers and skills? - "The company is opening up what it calls a manufacturing academy in Detroit, where it will help smaller companies with manufacturing. It already operates an academy for app developers in the city. It’s also doubling its manufacturing fund in the US to $10 billion." - Sounds like they are upskilling, and will count the employees of companies joining the academy as "jobs created" * Does this mean moving to US based fabs for the M-series chips? - "[M-Series] chips themselves, however, continue to be produced in Taiwan. * Is this actually profitable, or is this just a political move? - Define profitable. It is cheaper than paying tariffs.
- mrweasel 2y ago
  I might be reading it wrong, but that's the 20,000 ADDITIONAL jobs, which is going to be R&D, engineering and "AI". Those 20,000 people won't be staffing the production lines. So how many manufacturing jobs, especially low skill, entry level with decent pay, will this create? The whole thing is framed in a way that makes it sound like Apple is creating thousands of manufacturing jobs.
- tootie 2y ago
  I seriously doubt it's cheaper than tariffs.
- smileson2 2y ago
  data labeling
apwell23 2y ago
> Does the US have the required people, in terms of numbers and skills? doesn't matter because we have work visas
AnAnonyCowherd 2y ago
> Does the US have the required people, in terms of numbers and skills? For 30 years, IT managers at blue chip US corporations have exploited the H1-B visa program by saying, "No," and then hiring a never-ending stream of barely-capable Java coders from programmer mills in India, take 5 times longer to make an app than it should have taken, get promoted, and leave everyone holding the bag with shitty web app that we all hate because it's too slow, too bloated, and doesn't work like it needs to. And the companies who can't get enough of that bullshit in-house just hire it out to sub-sub-contractors that do the same thing. Can we not invest in our native population and education systems this time around? I'm so tired of the fact that 90% of the IT staff in my Fortune 250 is Indian, and I know people who would be better at their jobs living in my home town. It hurts our community and our country, in the long run, and by the VERY same logic as re-homing our chip production.
- pupperino 2y ago
  Well, those Indians living in the US will have families of their own, and over time become part of the community you claim to be a part of. Very much like your ancestors did, except they likely didn't face the arbitrary constraints on immigration that Indians (and any other nationality) face today.
  - whamlastxmas 2y ago
    I would find it hard to believe that there weren’t racial prejudices involved at literally every point of immigration in American history
    - radicaldreamer 2y ago
      The same thing that happened in the UK will happen in America. People in the UK who are against immigration are often talking about Poles who moved to the UK after the EU and not Indian families who have lived in those neighborhoods for generations.
    - dev_daftly 2y ago
      The crazy thing is, it's not that long ago that Irish and Italian immigrants were not discriminated against. They didn't even consider Italian immigrants to be white.
kube-system 2y ago
> Does this mean moving to US based fabs for the M-series chips? This is not really a practical option. A big part of the M-series success is TSMC's lead in cutting edge process nodes. And Taiwan does not allow export of technology for the latest nodes. It is available only there.
- foobiekr 2y ago
  Most of the technology that TSMC uses was developed in the US and Europe.
  - kube-system 2y ago
    Developed, sure. Successfully integrated and commercialized, no. Organizations in US and Europe has done a lot of the prerequisite tooling and research. But they haven't successfully integrated it into an operation capable of producing leading nodes, yet.

notahacker 2y ago

And related to your last bullet point: will it actually happen or is floating this just a political move...

xadhominemx 2y ago
It will actually happen because it’s nothing new. The 500b is almost all wages for existing US-based employees. They are looking for a carve out from the new China tariffs (same as last time). Note - they made a very similar announcement 4 years ago https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/04/apple-commits-430-billion-in-us-investments-over-five-years/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/04/apple-commits-430-bil...

nottorp 2y ago

And one more: * Will this raise prices for customers outside the US for no justifiable reason?

Aeolun 2y ago

The required people can just be imported from China?

wodenokoto 2y ago

* What type of jobs? - "The 20,000 additional jobs, Apple said, will focus on research and development, silicon engineering and AI." * Does the US have the required people, in terms of numbers and skills? - "The company is opening up what it calls a manufacturing academy in Detroit, where it will help smaller companies with manufacturing. It already operates an academy for app developers in the city. It’s also doubling its manufacturing fund in the US to $10 billion." - Sounds like they are upskilling, and will count the employees of companies joining the academy as "jobs created" * Does this mean moving to US based fabs for the M-series chips? - "[M-Series] chips themselves, however, continue to be produced in Taiwan. * Is this actually profitable, or is this just a political move? - Define profitable. It is cheaper than paying tariffs.

mrweasel 2y ago
I might be reading it wrong, but that's the 20,000 ADDITIONAL jobs, which is going to be R&D, engineering and "AI". Those 20,000 people won't be staffing the production lines. So how many manufacturing jobs, especially low skill, entry level with decent pay, will this create? The whole thing is framed in a way that makes it sound like Apple is creating thousands of manufacturing jobs.
tootie 2y ago
I seriously doubt it's cheaper than tariffs.
smileson2 2y ago
data labeling

apwell23 2y ago

> Does the US have the required people, in terms of numbers and skills? doesn't matter because we have work visas

AnAnonyCowherd 2y ago

> Does the US have the required people, in terms of numbers and skills? For 30 years, IT managers at blue chip US corporations have exploited the H1-B visa program by saying, "No," and then hiring a never-ending stream of barely-capable Java coders from programmer mills in India, take 5 times longer to make an app than it should have taken, get promoted, and leave everyone holding the bag with shitty web app that we all hate because it's too slow, too bloated, and doesn't work like it needs to. And the companies who can't get enough of that bullshit in-house just hire it out to sub-sub-contractors that do the same thing. Can we not invest in our native population and education systems this time around? I'm so tired of the fact that 90% of the IT staff in my Fortune 250 is Indian, and I know people who would be better at their jobs living in my home town. It hurts our community and our country, in the long run, and by the VERY same logic as re-homing our chip production.

pupperino 2y ago
Well, those Indians living in the US will have families of their own, and over time become part of the community you claim to be a part of. Very much like your ancestors did, except they likely didn't face the arbitrary constraints on immigration that Indians (and any other nationality) face today.
- whamlastxmas 2y ago
  I would find it hard to believe that there weren’t racial prejudices involved at literally every point of immigration in American history
  - radicaldreamer 2y ago
    The same thing that happened in the UK will happen in America. People in the UK who are against immigration are often talking about Poles who moved to the UK after the EU and not Indian families who have lived in those neighborhoods for generations.
  - dev_daftly 2y ago
    The crazy thing is, it's not that long ago that Irish and Italian immigrants were not discriminated against. They didn't even consider Italian immigrants to be white.

kube-system 2y ago

> Does this mean moving to US based fabs for the M-series chips? This is not really a practical option. A big part of the M-series success is TSMC's lead in cutting edge process nodes. And Taiwan does not allow export of technology for the latest nodes. It is available only there.

foobiekr 2y ago
Most of the technology that TSMC uses was developed in the US and Europe.
- kube-system 2y ago
  Developed, sure. Successfully integrated and commercialized, no. Organizations in US and Europe has done a lot of the prerequisite tooling and research. But they haven't successfully integrated it into an operation capable of producing leading nodes, yet.