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"The thing is, Apple has made it abundantly clear in no uncertain terms that they will refuse any request by any government to knowingly insert backdoors into t
by PeterStuer 2y ago
"The thing is, Apple has made it abundantly clear in no uncertain terms that they will refuse any request by any government to knowingly insert backdoors into their software."
They may say that, and it might even be true, but then again, If they were requested by the US they couldn't speak about it nor refuse without explicit court permission.
In the U.S., gag orders under the Stored Communications Act (SCA) (18 U.S.C. § 2705(b)) and National Security Letters (NSLs) under the USA PATRIOT Act prevent companies from disclosing they were compelled to comply with law enforcement or intelligence agency requests.
Key Regulations:
Stored Communications Act (SCA) – 18 U.S.C. § 2705(b)
Allows law enforcement to obtain a court-ordered non-disclosure order preventing a company from telling users or the public about the request.
Typically applies to subpoenas, warrants, or other legal demands for electronic communications.
National Security Letters (NSLs) – USA PATRIOT Act (18 U.S.C. § 2709)
Used by the FBI to request customer information from telecom companies, ISPs, and financial institutions.
NSLs often come with an automatic gag order, preventing disclosure.
Companies may challenge NSLs in court, but they remain secret unless a judge rules otherwise.
Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) Orders – 50 U.S.C. § 1805
Under FISA Section 702, the government can issue secret surveillance orders, and recipients are prohibited from disclosing them unless explicitly allowed.
Executive Orders & National Security Directives
Certain classified government surveillance programs, like PRISM, may be protected under Executive Orders (e.g., EO 12333) and other national security laws.
Cloud Act (2018)
While mainly about cross-border data access, it allows the U.S. to enter agreements with foreign governments and may include secrecy provisions regarding data requests.
- motbus3 2y agoAs back in the 90s lots of "pedophiles" will be found in controversial investigations
- thefz 2y agoApple can state all they want, but since the disclosure of PRISM, I will not believe anything they say. The general population will, however.
- AlexandrB 2y agoThe scariest thing is that PRISM was revealed in 2013 - 12 years ago - thus "the intelligence community" has had 12 years to move this same approach forward. I could be remembering wrong, but the only repercussions for the PRISM leak fell on the leaker: Snowden.
- AlgebraFox 2y agoExactly. I have no idea why people trust Apple when they were working with NSA and China for surveillance and censorship. Their software is 100% closed source. You've no idea what it does despite all marketing. They may make great hardware but it's foolish to have trust in their privacy claims.
- wseqyrku 2y agoSince Private Cloud Computing it's clear how they see their customers.
- amelius 2y agoApple built their castle in someone else's kingdom. So, indeed, there's little they can do about it. On the other hand, if they are forced to implement a backdoor then many people will have to know about it.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 2y agoHow many people would have to know about it? If they can keep the team that implements it to say, 50 or fewer engineers, it wouldn't be much at all to gag them with an NDA.
- AlexandrB 2y agoNot just an NDA, but probably an NSL[1]-style non-disclosure requirement. How many are willing to go to jail or exile in a foreign country to reveal this kind of thing? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_security_letter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_security_letter
- NoMoreNicksLeft 2y agoMy guess is that, were this to come to pass, the engineers tasked with implementing (and maintaining) it would be located in the UK. That way, if they do get in trouble with this for leaking, the UK's jurisdiction comes into play. Even as shitty as some say the United States is, no one's being extradited to the UK for violating that. Nor, for that matter, would they be able to much punish them with breach of contract, once people start crowing about human rights violations.
- bartread 2y agoI don't suppose Apple run any warrant canaries do they?
- literalAardvark 2y agoWhat would the point of that be? They're too big not to have warrants served on a daily basis.
- aleph_minus_one 2y ago> "The thing is, Apple has made it abundantly clear in no uncertain terms that they will refuse any request by any government to knowingly insert backdoors into their software." Jail the responsible managers for fraud.
- lupusreal 2y agoHow could you prove fraud in court, if the government has classified all the evidence and refuses to admit any of it happened? The government has gagged them, making it illegal for those managers to even plead guilty!
- aleph_minus_one 2y ago> How could you prove fraud in court, if the government has classified all the evidence and refuses to admit any of it happened? There exist other government than the US government - in this case the UK government.
- gunian 2y agoanything digital (phone, cars with cameras, server) that you didnt build from scratch has a backdoor that feeds a five eyes LLM anyone that thinks otherwise probably believes slavery and feudalism ended and license plates are random :) the more interesting question is how is global surveillance handled across geopolitical boundaries? do they even need digital devices or have the overlords given nano tech?
- nico 2y ago> license plates are random First time I hear about this. What’s up with license plates?
- florbnit 2y ago> They may say that, and it might even be true, but then again, If they were requested by the US they couldn't speak about it nor refuse without explicit court permission. They couldn’t in the UK either which is why they completely removed encryption, they could do the same in the US if the government pushed for back doors.