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Taking a break from the culture war does a lot of good. Some people on both sides have been whipping themselves into frenzy that the world is going to end for d

Taking a break from the culture war does a lot of good. Some people on both sides have been whipping themselves into frenzy that the world is going to end for decade and a half now (almost two if we count the tea party) and it shows at the temps people going to therapy have been growing. Take a break. Take a kitkat. It's going to fine. In four or eight years the other side will take power and you will have your revenge.

Philpax 2y ago
Fine for you, perhaps, but not fine for everybody.
cheema33 2y ago
> Take a break. Take a kitkat. It's going to fine. Tell that to people in Ukraine who were invaded by Russia. They were provided support by the US. Our leader and Musk are now blaming the victim and want them to surrender to the invader. Or pay $500B for US to give them additional support. This is what we have come down to. People are dying and we are trying to shake them down like a mafia. Even mafia bosses are not that heartless. Tell the Ukrainian kids hiding under desks from incoming missiles to take a break and take a kitkat.
- ReptileMan 2y ago
  US have absolutely no obligations towards Ukraine. It may aid or deny aid based on US interests, but Ukraine's are irrelevant. UK has only obligation towards US kids. And US have a long history of shaking down people dying in the trenches - like the Louisiana purchase and Alaska Purchase. And Ukraine is Europe's not US problem anyway.
  - TinkersW 2y ago
    It isn't about obligations, it is about the best interest of the US. Which is very clearly not handing everything to Russia for no good reason, and for nothing at all in return.
  - amanaplanacanal 2y ago
    The US did bad things in the past... So that excuses them doing more bad things now?
  - mschuster91 2y ago
    > And Ukraine is Europe's not US problem anyway. It actually is a problem of the US just as much as it is a problem of Europe. Russia has been financing and steering terrorist organisations across the world, most notably the entire MENA clusterfuck via its proxy Iran, and if Russia isn't stopped in Ukraine, they will escalate in other parts of the world.
  - ta1243 2y ago
    Significant amounts of US power and respect comes from its position as a benevolent dictator since ww2. That position is currently being thrown away, and will have consequences. I suspect many Americans don't even realise the benefit they have from such global soft-power, and won't for another decade. 2025 isn't a turning point, the hearts and minds have been on the wane since 2003, but it's likely to be an inflection point.
  - verzali 2y ago
    Yes, the United States does have obligations to Ukraine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum In exchange for them giving up nuclear weapons, the US, the UK, and Russia guaranteed its security and borders.
matwood 2y ago
You seem to be speaking from a position of privilege though. A white, straight male who already has accumulated some assets will probably be fine. I'm not so sure about everyone else though. I also think framing this as just a culture war is downplaying the dismantling of the US government and US influence around the world. Cozying up to Putin for example, will likely have geopolitical ramifications for decades.
- ReptileMan 2y ago
  > Cozying up to Putin for example, will likely have geopolitical ramifications for decades. Yes. It will help reign in China.
  - amanaplanacanal 2y ago
    So far only one of those two has invaded neighboring countries.
  - matwood 2y ago
    No it won’t. It shows China the US won’t stop expansionism. Further, the US pulling out all over the world leaves a huge power vacuum open for China to step in.
- TinkersW 2y ago
  The second you say something like that first sentence you have already lost the argument. Which is annoying as the US is going to face some serious consequences from Trumps idiocy, phrasing it the way you did, is handing the future to Trump and his kind.
  - fragmede 2y ago
    What word/phrase would you use instead to highlight the fact that for some people, sure, it's just some crap on the Internet, that it's just a bunch of hot air, a theoretical culture war, fought from the comfort of their couch, but that for other people, they've lost jobs, friends and family have been deported, they've lost their healthcare because the doctors were fired and the clinics unfunded. People are going to lose their farms. I mean, sure, they probably didn't die, but I'd call losing your job, having to sell the farm, not seeing the doctor, being forced into bankruptcy maybe a little bit of a shade of being "not fine". That's ignoring any problems in a war zone like Ukraine or the West Bank. But so okay, let's be sensitive to others, and avoid using the word "privilege". What word/phrase better describes the situation where for some people, the harm is largely theoretical; something happening to other people, and that for a different set of people, there's real life ramifications to stuff the p-word people only hear about on the news.
loktarogar 2y ago
This one feels different. Musk and Trump are doing real damage to trust, US soft power and government institutions all of which have taken decades to build. They're trying to do things that could lead to pensioners having their income cut off, hundreds of thousands of people entering the job market suddenly, and whatever economic effects that brings. Then the actions actually leading to more deaths in Ukraine and emboldening Putin, and whatever that brings with it. The main thing is that these are the kinds of actions that can't be reversed overnight if power flips. eg, You can't just rehire an entire department and have them operating effectively. We'll be feeling these things for years afterwards, possibly decades. They're causing real damage, and it's intentional.
- ReptileMan 2y ago
  If after betraying South Vietnam, the invasions of Iraq, Afghanistan there is any trust in US left, leaving Europe to help Ukraine instead of US would hardly diminish it either.
  - loktarogar 2y ago
    Yes, if you take one point in isolation without the rest of the context it's easy to dismiss it.

Philpax 2y ago

Fine for you, perhaps, but not fine for everybody.

cheema33 2y ago

> Take a break. Take a kitkat. It's going to fine. Tell that to people in Ukraine who were invaded by Russia. They were provided support by the US. Our leader and Musk are now blaming the victim and want them to surrender to the invader. Or pay $500B for US to give them additional support. This is what we have come down to. People are dying and we are trying to shake them down like a mafia. Even mafia bosses are not that heartless. Tell the Ukrainian kids hiding under desks from incoming missiles to take a break and take a kitkat.

ReptileMan 2y ago
US have absolutely no obligations towards Ukraine. It may aid or deny aid based on US interests, but Ukraine's are irrelevant. UK has only obligation towards US kids. And US have a long history of shaking down people dying in the trenches - like the Louisiana purchase and Alaska Purchase. And Ukraine is Europe's not US problem anyway.
- TinkersW 2y ago
  It isn't about obligations, it is about the best interest of the US. Which is very clearly not handing everything to Russia for no good reason, and for nothing at all in return.
- amanaplanacanal 2y ago
  The US did bad things in the past... So that excuses them doing more bad things now?
- mschuster91 2y ago
  > And Ukraine is Europe's not US problem anyway. It actually is a problem of the US just as much as it is a problem of Europe. Russia has been financing and steering terrorist organisations across the world, most notably the entire MENA clusterfuck via its proxy Iran, and if Russia isn't stopped in Ukraine, they will escalate in other parts of the world.
- ta1243 2y ago
  Significant amounts of US power and respect comes from its position as a benevolent dictator since ww2. That position is currently being thrown away, and will have consequences. I suspect many Americans don't even realise the benefit they have from such global soft-power, and won't for another decade. 2025 isn't a turning point, the hearts and minds have been on the wane since 2003, but it's likely to be an inflection point.
- verzali 2y ago
  Yes, the United States does have obligations to Ukraine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum In exchange for them giving up nuclear weapons, the US, the UK, and Russia guaranteed its security and borders.

matwood 2y ago

You seem to be speaking from a position of privilege though. A white, straight male who already has accumulated some assets will probably be fine. I'm not so sure about everyone else though. I also think framing this as just a culture war is downplaying the dismantling of the US government and US influence around the world. Cozying up to Putin for example, will likely have geopolitical ramifications for decades.

ReptileMan 2y ago
> Cozying up to Putin for example, will likely have geopolitical ramifications for decades. Yes. It will help reign in China.
- amanaplanacanal 2y ago
  So far only one of those two has invaded neighboring countries.
- matwood 2y ago
  No it won’t. It shows China the US won’t stop expansionism. Further, the US pulling out all over the world leaves a huge power vacuum open for China to step in.
TinkersW 2y ago
The second you say something like that first sentence you have already lost the argument. Which is annoying as the US is going to face some serious consequences from Trumps idiocy, phrasing it the way you did, is handing the future to Trump and his kind.
- fragmede 2y ago
  What word/phrase would you use instead to highlight the fact that for some people, sure, it's just some crap on the Internet, that it's just a bunch of hot air, a theoretical culture war, fought from the comfort of their couch, but that for other people, they've lost jobs, friends and family have been deported, they've lost their healthcare because the doctors were fired and the clinics unfunded. People are going to lose their farms. I mean, sure, they probably didn't die, but I'd call losing your job, having to sell the farm, not seeing the doctor, being forced into bankruptcy maybe a little bit of a shade of being "not fine". That's ignoring any problems in a war zone like Ukraine or the West Bank. But so okay, let's be sensitive to others, and avoid using the word "privilege". What word/phrase better describes the situation where for some people, the harm is largely theoretical; something happening to other people, and that for a different set of people, there's real life ramifications to stuff the p-word people only hear about on the news.

loktarogar 2y ago

This one feels different. Musk and Trump are doing real damage to trust, US soft power and government institutions all of which have taken decades to build. They're trying to do things that could lead to pensioners having their income cut off, hundreds of thousands of people entering the job market suddenly, and whatever economic effects that brings. Then the actions actually leading to more deaths in Ukraine and emboldening Putin, and whatever that brings with it. The main thing is that these are the kinds of actions that can't be reversed overnight if power flips. eg, You can't just rehire an entire department and have them operating effectively. We'll be feeling these things for years afterwards, possibly decades. They're causing real damage, and it's intentional.

ReptileMan 2y ago
If after betraying South Vietnam, the invasions of Iraq, Afghanistan there is any trust in US left, leaving Europe to help Ukraine instead of US would hardly diminish it either.
- loktarogar 2y ago
  Yes, if you take one point in isolation without the rest of the context it's easy to dismiss it.