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OP here: I think the reason for reducing Ph.D. admissions is very simple and should be understandable to anyone who has ever been responsible for making payroll

OP here: I think the reason for reducing Ph.D. admissions is very simple and should be understandable to anyone who has ever been responsible for making payroll. We (at universities) have great uncertainty about future "revenue" (grants) with even funding for ongoing contracts/ grants not being guaranteed to come in next fiscal year. So we need to reduce expenses which are placed on the grants, the largest amount of which is paying for our trainees. The vast majority of universities in the US do not have extremely large endowments, and at least at the school I work at, the (very modest) endowment amounts that can be used for ongoing expenses already are. I, as a PI, am not directly admitting anyone into my group this year to ensure I have enough funding to pay existing group members. We're hunkering down and making sure those we have now will be funded through the rest of their Ph.D. While this article is talking about program-level decisions, there is a bottom-up aspect as well - at my program and many others, we (faculty) directly admit students into our group and are often responsible for their salaries from day one. Many faculty are, at an individual level, making the same decision I am, to reduce or eliminate any admissions offers this year. Edit: For reference, I am not at UPenn, but at a "typical" state school engineering program.

currymj 2y ago
most of the general public doesn’t know PhD students get paid stipends. if they do know that, they don’t realize how tightly each term’s stipend is tied to a specific funding source.
skeeter2020 2y ago
how many admin people are Penn and other unis cutting in "anticipation"?
- KittenInABox 2y ago
  It's a different budgetary item. Unlike a household budget where people are given a general income and then asked to decide to spend it on housing, gas, groceries, etc. It's far more like SNAP, where the money given to you is legally bound to very specific things-- you can buy baby food but not diapers for your baby.
  - fn-mote 2y ago
    I’m somewhat skeptical of the idea that salary money cannot be shifted around. Grants paying for PhD students- sure, those cannot be shifted to pay for admin; that makes sense. Are administrators line items in the state budget? Then this would make more sense.
    - MITSardine 2y ago
      It's even more specific than that. Grants are often specific to a research project and you're not supposed to pay, say, a postdoc that works on X with a grant that's supposed to cover work on Y.
    - KittenInABox 2y ago
      I'm certain that has cuts continue, admin will begin to be laid off, but it makes total sense that the first response to grants being rolled back is that the things that are directly funded by grants (NOT ADMIN) are also rolled back. To continue a SNAP example: it makes total sense that when you have less food money, you buy less food. You may proceed to sell your used video game consoles later but the very first thing you do is reduce your spending on food.
    - colingauvin 2y ago
      At most public universities, the tenure track faculty, staff, and admin are primarily jobs negotiated through the public union. They are paid for by tuition revenue and state funding. They cannot legally be cut, and almost always are directly related to the teaching aspect of a university. However, universities do research, and need research infrastructure. This includes administrators, safety people, compliance people, core research facilities, etc. Those are usually on what is called "soft money" - funds from IDCs. Those folks can be eliminated, of course, but there are typically very few of them and they are serving the most essential roles. If you eliminate them, you may need to eliminate your research program altogether. The NIH requires you to meet safety standards, the EPA requires specific waste disposal, etc. The folks that ensure that compliance generally are paid for by IDC funding.
      - 2y ago
- mercacona 2y ago
  Cutting admin people might mean more paperwork for professors and researches, which can lead to less grants and funding because you can’t do science while doing paperwork. Not that easy to be efficient without losing productivity.
efavdb 2y ago
I mostly had to teach throughout my PhD. Curious if funding of that sort is also at risk or if it comes out of tuition from undergrads.
- anticensor 2y ago
  Why not offer a doctorate with the doctoral students paying tuition like we do in Turkish private universites?
  - jltsiren 2y ago
    It doesn't make sense if you are not rich. Completing a PhD typically takes 5-7 years in the US. In my public university, the nominal tuition for that time would be $100-150k for in-state students and $180-250k for others. Then add living costs on top of that. A PhD increases expected lifetime earnings over bachelor's, but not in all fields and definitely not enough to justify such spending.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - zekrioca 2y ago
    Because a PhD should be thought of a job, not pure education. PhD students are already underpaid, go over a lot of stress, and now some wants them to pay for these? Doesn’t add up at all.
  - itishappy 2y ago
    That is how it works. PhD programs charge tuition. Tuition is typically reimbursed through some working arrangement, but you're welcome to pay out of pocket.
- strangeloops85 2y ago
  In theory it is less at risk, but in practice there may be fewer TAships due to general budget shortfalls and also more students competing for those spots.

currymj 2y ago

most of the general public doesn’t know PhD students get paid stipends. if they do know that, they don’t realize how tightly each term’s stipend is tied to a specific funding source.

skeeter2020 2y ago

how many admin people are Penn and other unis cutting in "anticipation"?

KittenInABox 2y ago
It's a different budgetary item. Unlike a household budget where people are given a general income and then asked to decide to spend it on housing, gas, groceries, etc. It's far more like SNAP, where the money given to you is legally bound to very specific things-- you can buy baby food but not diapers for your baby.
- fn-mote 2y ago
  I’m somewhat skeptical of the idea that salary money cannot be shifted around. Grants paying for PhD students- sure, those cannot be shifted to pay for admin; that makes sense. Are administrators line items in the state budget? Then this would make more sense.
  - MITSardine 2y ago
    It's even more specific than that. Grants are often specific to a research project and you're not supposed to pay, say, a postdoc that works on X with a grant that's supposed to cover work on Y.
  - KittenInABox 2y ago
    I'm certain that has cuts continue, admin will begin to be laid off, but it makes total sense that the first response to grants being rolled back is that the things that are directly funded by grants (NOT ADMIN) are also rolled back. To continue a SNAP example: it makes total sense that when you have less food money, you buy less food. You may proceed to sell your used video game consoles later but the very first thing you do is reduce your spending on food.
  - colingauvin 2y ago
    At most public universities, the tenure track faculty, staff, and admin are primarily jobs negotiated through the public union. They are paid for by tuition revenue and state funding. They cannot legally be cut, and almost always are directly related to the teaching aspect of a university. However, universities do research, and need research infrastructure. This includes administrators, safety people, compliance people, core research facilities, etc. Those are usually on what is called "soft money" - funds from IDCs. Those folks can be eliminated, of course, but there are typically very few of them and they are serving the most essential roles. If you eliminate them, you may need to eliminate your research program altogether. The NIH requires you to meet safety standards, the EPA requires specific waste disposal, etc. The folks that ensure that compliance generally are paid for by IDC funding.
    - 2y ago
mercacona 2y ago
Cutting admin people might mean more paperwork for professors and researches, which can lead to less grants and funding because you can’t do science while doing paperwork. Not that easy to be efficient without losing productivity.

efavdb 2y ago

I mostly had to teach throughout my PhD. Curious if funding of that sort is also at risk or if it comes out of tuition from undergrads.

anticensor 2y ago
Why not offer a doctorate with the doctoral students paying tuition like we do in Turkish private universites?
- jltsiren 2y ago
  It doesn't make sense if you are not rich. Completing a PhD typically takes 5-7 years in the US. In my public university, the nominal tuition for that time would be $100-150k for in-state students and $180-250k for others. Then add living costs on top of that. A PhD increases expected lifetime earnings over bachelor's, but not in all fields and definitely not enough to justify such spending.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- zekrioca 2y ago
  Because a PhD should be thought of a job, not pure education. PhD students are already underpaid, go over a lot of stress, and now some wants them to pay for these? Doesn’t add up at all.
- itishappy 2y ago
  That is how it works. PhD programs charge tuition. Tuition is typically reimbursed through some working arrangement, but you're welcome to pay out of pocket.
strangeloops85 2y ago
In theory it is less at risk, but in practice there may be fewer TAships due to general budget shortfalls and also more students competing for those spots.