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I disagree. Range anxiety is one of the top concerns for EV car buyers and telling them they can just charge more frequently won't assuage their fears, for many

I disagree. Range anxiety is one of the top concerns for EV car buyers and telling them they can just charge more frequently won't assuage their fears, for many reasons. No matter how many stations we build (at enormous cost) there will inevitably be issues related to access from time to time. Today this presents as chargers offline, slow, or full with queues. Worst of all is that no matter how ubiquitous, one still needs to exit the freeway and navigate to one of these chargers. Today my Model Y gets about two hours on the Autobahn before I need to charge it. That's just not enough, and it has what is considered good range for an EV. There are undoubtedly people who like to take frequent breaks. Many people are not like that. The future is both ubiquitous chargers and much larger battery capacity.

varelse 2y ago
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AtlasBarfed 2y ago
I'm not THAT pessimistic about buildout of charging if it was a politically rational era, but the Ramcharger style 50-100 mile PHEV really is a great compromise for EV transitions. We should have mandated PHEVs 20 years ago for consumer cars (you know, with a 5-10 year transition period), but it was the Bush administration. Then again Obama and Biden didn't do that much either, and even California didn't do and still hasn't.
arghwhat 2y ago
Two hours at the Autobahn is just 200-250km in what is effectively optimal conditions (steady driving over long distances). That number doesn't check out. Most people drive significantly less than a full charge in a given day. Overnight or workplace charging solves like, 95% of car needs. And remember, it's not much of a problem if 5% or less of road cars need to still be (efficient) fossil fuel cars. Battery advances should mainly be used to make cars lighter at decent range, not to give more range at same weight. Electric cars are too heavy in the current state, fixing that should come first.
- ipsi 2y ago
  That matches my experience, in an admittedly slightly older car. Note that you'll rarely be charging over 80% because it's just too slow, and going under 5-10% is a bit too stressful, so practical range is probably 70-75% of maximum on longer trips. Less if it's winter and/or the AC is running. If I could rely on every Rasthof having multiple functional EV chargers, I think range anxiety would be far, far less of an issue for me, but as of now it's something that I do think about for longer trips, and do have to plan for.
  - Svoka 2y ago
    why not charge it to 100% for a long trip? It literally says to do so.
    - michpoch 2y ago
      Because you’ll spend ages at the charging station?
      - Svoka 2y ago
        I had a road trip, and pretty much all the time I got 95-100% charge while having lunch with supercharges, which are everywhere. It takes 30 minutes to do it.
        michpoch 2y ago
        So how many 30 minutes lunches are you having? One every 2 hours? > supercharges, which are everywhere Not really? That's the whole point, that the availability of fast chargers is still very low.
        Svoka 2y ago
        Every 3-4 hours I stop for a 30 minute meal. Ye, sounds reasonable.
    - 2y ago
Svoka 2y ago
So I did a roadtrip recently on my EV. It was over 7000km. Not once I experienced any of issues you describe. I agree I drive below 120 km/h per speed limits where I live. Also, I don't believe you. How do you manage to spend whole battery in hours? Two hours on autobahn driving 90-120km/h in city zones or just plain stuck in traffic because of construction is like 30% at best. May be 50% if you're lucky.
- dkjaudyeqooe 2y ago
  By driving between 200 and 300km/h which is common enough on the autobahn. It's the most important factor and he doesn't mention it. EVs lose efficiency as speed increases due to wind resistance.
  - Svoka 2y ago
    I lived in Germany for over a year and not once drove 200km/h. Pretty much no one did. Everyone drives 120-140. If you're not in the city area that is. Or not stuck in traffic because of construction. Which is always. If you drive 300km/h do not even mention efficiency.
- michpoch 2y ago
  > Two hours on autobahn driving 90-120km/h So 240 km took only 30% of your battery? What model of car is that?
- Gareth321 2y ago
  > Two hours on autobahn driving 90-120km/h in city zones or just plain stuck in traffic because of construction is like 30% at best. I just don't believe you. This would result in a real world range of 800km at highway speeds. Even the most expensive EVs like the Lucid Air would struggle to do this. Especially in cold weather, and especially at highway speeds. This makes me doubt your claim about doing a 7,000km road trip and never experiencing any of the issues I outline. I've never met an EV owner in my life who has never experienced at least some of those. You could have at least made your lie believable.

varelse 2y ago

[dead]

AtlasBarfed 2y ago

I'm not THAT pessimistic about buildout of charging if it was a politically rational era, but the Ramcharger style 50-100 mile PHEV really is a great compromise for EV transitions. We should have mandated PHEVs 20 years ago for consumer cars (you know, with a 5-10 year transition period), but it was the Bush administration. Then again Obama and Biden didn't do that much either, and even California didn't do and still hasn't.

arghwhat 2y ago

Two hours at the Autobahn is just 200-250km in what is effectively optimal conditions (steady driving over long distances). That number doesn't check out. Most people drive significantly less than a full charge in a given day. Overnight or workplace charging solves like, 95% of car needs. And remember, it's not much of a problem if 5% or less of road cars need to still be (efficient) fossil fuel cars. Battery advances should mainly be used to make cars lighter at decent range, not to give more range at same weight. Electric cars are too heavy in the current state, fixing that should come first.

ipsi 2y ago
That matches my experience, in an admittedly slightly older car. Note that you'll rarely be charging over 80% because it's just too slow, and going under 5-10% is a bit too stressful, so practical range is probably 70-75% of maximum on longer trips. Less if it's winter and/or the AC is running. If I could rely on every Rasthof having multiple functional EV chargers, I think range anxiety would be far, far less of an issue for me, but as of now it's something that I do think about for longer trips, and do have to plan for.
- Svoka 2y ago
  why not charge it to 100% for a long trip? It literally says to do so.
  - michpoch 2y ago
    Because you’ll spend ages at the charging station?
    - Svoka 2y ago
      I had a road trip, and pretty much all the time I got 95-100% charge while having lunch with supercharges, which are everywhere. It takes 30 minutes to do it.
      - michpoch 2y ago
        So how many 30 minutes lunches are you having? One every 2 hours? > supercharges, which are everywhere Not really? That's the whole point, that the availability of fast chargers is still very low.
        Svoka 2y ago
        Every 3-4 hours I stop for a 30 minute meal. Ye, sounds reasonable.
  - 2y ago

Svoka 2y ago

So I did a roadtrip recently on my EV. It was over 7000km. Not once I experienced any of issues you describe. I agree I drive below 120 km/h per speed limits where I live. Also, I don't believe you. How do you manage to spend whole battery in hours? Two hours on autobahn driving 90-120km/h in city zones or just plain stuck in traffic because of construction is like 30% at best. May be 50% if you're lucky.

dkjaudyeqooe 2y ago
By driving between 200 and 300km/h which is common enough on the autobahn. It's the most important factor and he doesn't mention it. EVs lose efficiency as speed increases due to wind resistance.
- Svoka 2y ago
  I lived in Germany for over a year and not once drove 200km/h. Pretty much no one did. Everyone drives 120-140. If you're not in the city area that is. Or not stuck in traffic because of construction. Which is always. If you drive 300km/h do not even mention efficiency.
michpoch 2y ago
> Two hours on autobahn driving 90-120km/h So 240 km took only 30% of your battery? What model of car is that?
Gareth321 2y ago
> Two hours on autobahn driving 90-120km/h in city zones or just plain stuck in traffic because of construction is like 30% at best. I just don't believe you. This would result in a real world range of 800km at highway speeds. Even the most expensive EVs like the Lucid Air would struggle to do this. Especially in cold weather, and especially at highway speeds. This makes me doubt your claim about doing a 7,000km road trip and never experiencing any of the issues I outline. I've never met an EV owner in my life who has never experienced at least some of those. You could have at least made your lie believable.