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But did they earn more than they did before doing gig work?

xyst 2y ago
“Gig work” was always shitty pay _after_ you consider all of the expenses and depreciation in assets. You are an “independent contractor” after all. If you drive for a TNC, you may on paper earn more per hour but after gas, wear and tear on vehicle (changing out brakes, tires much faster), increased maintenance, steep depreciation of vehicle, higher insurance premiums for commercial auto. Then you factor in having to buy your own health insurance on the market, dental insurance, and other expenses that a normal, salaried, full time job comes with. Don’t forget about the taxes you have to pay out at the end of the year that would normally be taken out with each paycheck. I remember doing gig work when those companies were shelling out $1,000s for new drivers. But once those teasers expired and rates got cut, it didn’t make much sense from a financial aspect to continue doing so. Great beer money for a college student but I don’t see how folks make a sustainable living on the slave wage.
- missedthecue 2y ago
  For how many people is gig work their sole source of income?
- mx_03 2y ago
  Are you really an independent contractor if you cant set your own prices? To me Uber drivers are neither employees nor independent contractors. Working as much or as little as they want is not enough to be considered independent contractor.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Are you really an independent contractor if you cant set your own prices? Yes. Most tradespeople have limited control over the rates they can charge. To the extent they can set rates, an Uber driver and accept and decline fares.
    - mx_03 2y ago
      Which tradespeople have the same limitations as uber drivers? > an Uber driver and accept and decline fares. That just sucks. Bad system.
  - Aloisius 2y ago
    Why wouldn't you be? Sure it's more common that contractors offer pricing, but there are industries where the reverse. For instance, magazines typically have set offered rates they'll pay for articles by freelancers.
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      And this another example of where all laws have unintended consequences. The same law that was California passed to “help” Uber drivers and other gig workers hurt people who really did want to do gig work like write articles for websites. I think they made some adjustments.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    Why do people think that independent contractors can always set their own rates? If I could just set my own rate I would ask for 1 million dollars an hour. I could either negotiate the rate and walk away if it isn’t high enough or accept the rate. Dynamic pricing is suppose to do just that. Uber sets their own rates rate based on demand. Higher prices should encourage more drivers and the market works itself out.
    - mx_03 2y ago
      Yeah you could set your rate at 1m per hour but the market would kick you out. Let's put an example with carpenters. Lets say I have contracted two different guys and I know how they work. One is cheap but unreliable and the other one is expensive but reliable. As the customer I can decide that the rate of the second one is acceptable and he is being fair with it because I have trust he will show up on time. If he were to charge me 1m per hour I'd no longer consider his rate as fair and no longer hore him for gigs. Also I can also search the unicorn carpenter who is cheap and reliable. The market decides the rate. You can charge as little as you want but you might be missing money or even be in red numbers. Charge too much and you wont have contracts. Setting your own rate is not the same as everybody accepting your rate. > Dynamic pricing is suppose to do just that. If an Uber driver has a nicer, cleaner car can he charge more? No. Then he cant set up his own rates. No matter how much better he is at the job he will charge the same as everybody else. That's why Uber drivers are caught in the worst of two worlds. They are not employees but cant decide how much to earn per trip
      - scarface_74 2y ago
        Yes, they can take and UberXL and UberXXL rides as well Black and Black SUV rides. There is also a rate that Uber charges for more reliable drivers. Also, I’ve known many that make deals off platform especially for long drives. There was one older driver we got to know when we go back home to ATL that we call specifically. This is just like developers use platforms at first that pay less and then move off platform.
- oh_my_goodness 2y ago
  Yeah Uber makes sense if someone else pays for the car, and you're not paying your own rent.
beepbooptheory 2y ago
Its not really something you do to get an improvement in your salary.. It would be tough to find something lower paying in my state at least!
- ajmurmann 2y ago
  Asked another way: If the gig work vanished over night, would the people doing the gig work new better off?
  - beepbooptheory 2y ago
    If we can only talk counterfactually like this then the only logical answer here is yes! They would not have a bad job anymore.
aqueueaqueue 2y ago
If genuine question... it depends. Gig work both creates new opportunities (AI classifying RLHF jobs for example) but also systemically removes them. I.e. jobs may not exist now that companies can gig out the bits they need. I have no solutions just an observation.
blitzar 2y ago
Early days of uber - they were making far more than before uber, now far less than they were before uber. Might have more to do with VC cash, margins and floatations than anything else.

xyst 2y ago

“Gig work” was always shitty pay _after_ you consider all of the expenses and depreciation in assets. You are an “independent contractor” after all. If you drive for a TNC, you may on paper earn more per hour but after gas, wear and tear on vehicle (changing out brakes, tires much faster), increased maintenance, steep depreciation of vehicle, higher insurance premiums for commercial auto. Then you factor in having to buy your own health insurance on the market, dental insurance, and other expenses that a normal, salaried, full time job comes with. Don’t forget about the taxes you have to pay out at the end of the year that would normally be taken out with each paycheck. I remember doing gig work when those companies were shelling out $1,000s for new drivers. But once those teasers expired and rates got cut, it didn’t make much sense from a financial aspect to continue doing so. Great beer money for a college student but I don’t see how folks make a sustainable living on the slave wage.

missedthecue 2y ago
For how many people is gig work their sole source of income?
mx_03 2y ago
Are you really an independent contractor if you cant set your own prices? To me Uber drivers are neither employees nor independent contractors. Working as much or as little as they want is not enough to be considered independent contractor.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Are you really an independent contractor if you cant set your own prices? Yes. Most tradespeople have limited control over the rates they can charge. To the extent they can set rates, an Uber driver and accept and decline fares.
  - mx_03 2y ago
    Which tradespeople have the same limitations as uber drivers? > an Uber driver and accept and decline fares. That just sucks. Bad system.
- Aloisius 2y ago
  Why wouldn't you be? Sure it's more common that contractors offer pricing, but there are industries where the reverse. For instance, magazines typically have set offered rates they'll pay for articles by freelancers.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    And this another example of where all laws have unintended consequences. The same law that was California passed to “help” Uber drivers and other gig workers hurt people who really did want to do gig work like write articles for websites. I think they made some adjustments.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  Why do people think that independent contractors can always set their own rates? If I could just set my own rate I would ask for 1 million dollars an hour. I could either negotiate the rate and walk away if it isn’t high enough or accept the rate. Dynamic pricing is suppose to do just that. Uber sets their own rates rate based on demand. Higher prices should encourage more drivers and the market works itself out.
  - mx_03 2y ago
    Yeah you could set your rate at 1m per hour but the market would kick you out. Let's put an example with carpenters. Lets say I have contracted two different guys and I know how they work. One is cheap but unreliable and the other one is expensive but reliable. As the customer I can decide that the rate of the second one is acceptable and he is being fair with it because I have trust he will show up on time. If he were to charge me 1m per hour I'd no longer consider his rate as fair and no longer hore him for gigs. Also I can also search the unicorn carpenter who is cheap and reliable. The market decides the rate. You can charge as little as you want but you might be missing money or even be in red numbers. Charge too much and you wont have contracts. Setting your own rate is not the same as everybody accepting your rate. > Dynamic pricing is suppose to do just that. If an Uber driver has a nicer, cleaner car can he charge more? No. Then he cant set up his own rates. No matter how much better he is at the job he will charge the same as everybody else. That's why Uber drivers are caught in the worst of two worlds. They are not employees but cant decide how much to earn per trip
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      Yes, they can take and UberXL and UberXXL rides as well Black and Black SUV rides. There is also a rate that Uber charges for more reliable drivers. Also, I’ve known many that make deals off platform especially for long drives. There was one older driver we got to know when we go back home to ATL that we call specifically. This is just like developers use platforms at first that pay less and then move off platform.
oh_my_goodness 2y ago
Yeah Uber makes sense if someone else pays for the car, and you're not paying your own rent.

beepbooptheory 2y ago

Its not really something you do to get an improvement in your salary.. It would be tough to find something lower paying in my state at least!

ajmurmann 2y ago
Asked another way: If the gig work vanished over night, would the people doing the gig work new better off?
- beepbooptheory 2y ago
  If we can only talk counterfactually like this then the only logical answer here is yes! They would not have a bad job anymore.

aqueueaqueue 2y ago

If genuine question... it depends. Gig work both creates new opportunities (AI classifying RLHF jobs for example) but also systemically removes them. I.e. jobs may not exist now that companies can gig out the bits they need. I have no solutions just an observation.

blitzar 2y ago

Early days of uber - they were making far more than before uber, now far less than they were before uber. Might have more to do with VC cash, margins and floatations than anything else.