11 ms·

I’m fascinated by this phenomenon of apps proposing solutions that are far worse than the previous existing solutions. For example: 1. Parking apps are worse

I’m fascinated by this phenomenon of apps proposing solutions that are far worse than the previous existing solutions. For example: 1. Parking apps are worse than parking meters. 2. Tinder is worse than IRL speed dating. 3. Duolingo is worse than language classes. 4. Airline apps that are worse than just printing a boarding pass. 5. Etc It really makes me frustrated as someone who builds software and generally thinks it improves the world…

pqtyw 2y ago
> 1. Parking apps are worse than parking meters. I certainly don't agree with that one. I really don't miss having to pay for a fixed number of hours and then having to figure out what to do if I'm running late (or wasting money if I get back early). > 4. Airline apps that are worse than just printing a boarding pass. Unless the app is exceptionally horrible you can just export it to Apple/Android wallet which is much more convenient than having to find a printer. Duolingo isn't really a replacement for classes (which are obviously a magnitude or few more expensive) but self learnings books, tapes and such (IMHO it's mostly inferior to those too but not by a such high degree). Can't disagree about Tinder/etc. though.
- lambda 2y ago
  I'm kind of puzzled by your first point. In my experience, parking apps require you to pay in larger chunks of hours than paying with coins used to; many times I have to pay for a minimum of 2 hours of parking with the app when I could pay for just 10 or 15 minutes of parking with coins.
  - svelle 2y ago
    The parking app I use in Berlin, easy park, works in the sense that I pre-select a timeframe I think im going to park which then gives me an estimate for how much it'll cost and reserve that amount using my CC. When I end the parking before that timer ends, the actual time I've parked will be taken and only that amount is charged. It used to be even better in the sense that you'd only start and then end parking without having to pre select a time. But I think too many people, me included, forgot to end the parking when taking off and paid way more than they actually parked for.
    - SoftTalker 2y ago
      Of course the apps could easily detect that parking has ended. They could note your location when you park. When the phone returns to that location, and then moves at driving speed, parking has ended. But they don't because they make more money by profiting from people who forget to "clock out" when they are done parking.
      - rad_gruchalski 2y ago
        Yes, that’s what we need, parking apps tracking user’s location 24/7.
      - pohuing 2y ago
        Don't android and IOS try to prevent background location tracking? The location permission dialogs don't even have that option
      - svelle 2y ago
        > Of course the apps could easily detect that parking has ended. They could note your location when you park. When the phone returns to that location, and then moves at driving speed, parking has ended. They could at least start with adding proper CarPlay and Android Auto support so you can just end the parking from the infotainment. But I think there can be at most a single engineer working on this app if at all. Up until a couple months ago it didn't even have the option for a persistent notification to remind you that you had an ongoing parking... > But they don't because they make more money by profiting from people who forget to "clock out" when they are done parking. fwiw, at least in this case, the app that profited from you not clocking out got shut down and bought out by the app that asks you to pre-set your parking time. Which I guess is still not great, but at least somewhat of a step up.
        Marsymars 2y ago
        > But I think there can be at most a single engineer working on this app if at all. I assume they’re contracted out to the lowest bidder. In my city the payment schedule on the app significantly lags the meters/official rates. Fine when prices go up, but pretty annoying to app-users when the app charges more than the official parking rates. Maybe if they get their merchant account sanctioned for too many chargebacks someone will take notice.
  - gs17 2y ago
    >In my experience, parking apps require you to pay in larger chunks of hours than paying with coins used to; Here in Nashville, they sold out our public street parking to a private company. Now instead of coins in a meter for the time you want, you have to buy at least an hour for $1.75 (or more), pay by scanning a QR code (which is misprinted on the signs) unless you're in one of the spots where there's a working pay machine, and it now is enforced 24/7 instead of having holidays and weekends off (IIRC it was also free after 6, which was great). Also they had two hour limits where you can't simply move your car, you have to park somewhere they don't check for an indeterminate amount of time. How is any of this an improvement unless you get a cut of the money?
    - looofooo0 2y ago
      Has nothing to do with technology.
  - pqtyw 2y ago
    I depends on the app I guess, where I am you just click to start/stop and (IIRC) get billed at 15 minute increments.
  - gamedever 2y ago
    Parking apps requires registration. I arrive, park my car then (1) via machine: insert my card into the machine, get ticket, leave (2) via app: spend 10 minutes registering an account, email, password, phone number, wants verification via email or phone number, wants me to register my credit card and the agree to them selling all my data. IF on the other hand, they just made it use some kind of common e-cash and no registration, no tracking, no account, I'd be 100% for it.
    - kelnos 2y ago
      If you pay with a card, then they can track you, so it doesn't really matter if you put that card into a machine or into an app account. For places where I don't expect to return (or only rarely), sure, having to do an app is annoying. But for places where you expect to use it often enough, it can be a time-saver, after the initial time cost of setup.
  - kelnos 2y ago
    Strange, I only have experience with two parking apps, but they both let you pay in 15-minute increments. I have seen meters that have smaller increments, like sub-10-minutes, but when the increments cost something like 50 cents, it's hard to really care that much.
  - petepete 2y ago
    On public transport I can tap in and tap out with the wallet on phone or any bank card. Car parks could work in exactly the same way, but instead there are 15 apps.
- noqc 2y ago
  what if your phone runs out of battery?
  - tokioyoyo 2y ago
    I’m gonna say something stupid — the chances of my phone running out of battery and me not being able to charge it is lower than me losing the paper ticket.
    - crazygringo 2y ago
      Not stupid at all. I think that's the case for most people. It's easy to lose a random piece of paper. Whereas people are generally extremely aware of where their phone is at all times.
      - noqc 2y ago
        It's not that hard to maintain a random piece of paper, you do it with your ID, which presumably you do not keep on your phone. It is much harder to ensure an iPhone won't randomly be miscalibrated and shut off at 30%.
        crazygringo 2y ago
        Not it's not hard, but it is significantly harder, and why introduce unnecessary additional complexity into my life? My ID is in my wallet. A sheet of paper doesn't fit in my wallet. So I have to put the folded paper in a pocket, where it might fall out when I take out my gloves, or I forget if I put it in my backpack, and in which pocket, etc. A sheet of paper is extra. My phone isn't. And I sure as heck don't bring a phone with low charge to the airport... when I know I'm probably going to be using it for hours... and I've got my charger with me anyways in case I somehow did.
        joseda-hg 2y ago
        I do it with my ID because I've conditioned myself to check for it everytime I'm going to move places, or rather, check for my wallet, which usually has my ID inside it, but has burned me on a couple of ocassions Also, some people do keep their ID on their phones, either directly on the back of the case (I've seen it more on young women, maybe because lack of pockets) or with something like a magnetic wallet
- ryandrake 2y ago
  Don’t people just print their boarding passes at home before they leave for the airport? Or worst case, use the kiosks at the airports which print passes? Very few of the passengers in line ahead of me are using their phones.
  - tokioyoyo 2y ago
    Depends where you are and which flights. Around me, maybe 60% of people use mobile. From the other 40%, some probably got their paper tickets when they checked in their baggage and going with that now. > boarding passes at home before they leave for the airport It’s been years I’ve heard or seen anyone doing it. Even my parents in their 70s get theirs at the airport.
    - kxrm 2y ago
      I guess I am weird. I still do this. I just don't want to have to worry about my device being available during boarding nor do I want to have to stop at a kiosk. Just print at home, go through security and scan at the gate.
      - crazygringo 2y ago
        > I just don't want to have to worry about my device being available during boarding I don't think most people worry about that at all. Why wouldn't it be available? If you're heading to the airport from home, your battery is charged. And if your phone somehow breaks on the way, you print at a kiosk. It seems far more likely that I'd lose a random piece of paper on the way to the airport than lose my phone...
        ryandrake 2y ago
        Maybe I'm weird, but when I go on a trip, I generally pack my smartphone, if I bring it at all. It would be a royal pain to go find it again when I get into line to board.
        2y ago
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  > Unless the app is exceptionally horrible you can just export it to Apple/Android wallet which is much more convenient than having to find a printer. Why do iOS and Android phones have a "wallet", and why a boarding pass would have anything to do with it? There's an electronic solution strictly better than the app, for when you have no printer handy: just give the user the goddamned PDF! Works everywhere, works offline, can be printed if needed, and the user can manage, send or back it up however they like. It's a simple solution that works.
  - closewith 2y ago
    I have a few qualms with this app: 1. For a Linux user, you can already build such a system yourself quite trivially by getting an FTP account, mounting it locally with curlftpfs, and then using SVN or CVS on the mounted filesystem. From Windows or Mac, this FTP account could be accessed through built-in software. 2. It doesn't actually replace a USB drive. Most people I know e-mail files to themselves or host them somewhere online to be able to perform presentations, but they still carry a USB drive in case there are connectivity problems. This does not solve the connectivity issue. 3. It does not seem very "viral" or income-generating. I know this is premature at this point, but without charging users for the service, is it reasonable to expect to make money off of this?
    - porridgeraisin 2y ago
      Context: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224
  - realityking 2y ago
    You can do that if you want. Most airlines issue PDF boarding passes and both iOS and Android can store and show those files. Apple Wallet (and Apple Pay) are actually one of my favorite smartphone features. The built-in Wallet (speaking for iOS here) has a few advantages over a folder of PDFs: - The QR code is always fairly big without having to pan and zoom a PDF file - The display brightness is automatically increased to make reading the QR code easier - The Wallet syncs with my Apple Watch (where passes use a different, optimized layout) giving me backup if something where to happen to my phone during boarding - Passes can be updated by the airline (e.g. gate changes) - Passes automatically expire, I don’t have to cleanup myself. (There’s archive in case I need an old one) - Passes can be shown on your lock screen during the boarding time for easier access - Passes can be multilingual, adapting to your phone’s language
- dpkirchner 2y ago
  > I certainly don't agree with that one. I really don't miss having to pay for a fixed number of hours and then having to figure out what to do if I'm running late (or wasting money if I get back early). Maybe it's better these days, but back when I used to use online apps/sites to pay for parking in private lots, 4/5 times I still got a "ticket." I never had to pay the fine with money, only with time. I think it really was the 4th time I decided to stop using those apps entirely. Sometimes I wonder if the devs behind these apps and processes feel embarrassed by the results. I would be, even if the failures weren't my fault.
- thfuran 2y ago
  >Unless the app is exceptionally horrible you can just export it to Apple/Android wallet which is much more convenient than having to find a printer. And once the gate or departure time changes, your printed boarding pass will start lying to you.
- OptionOfT 2y ago
  I recently got bitten in the rear by Delta not updating boarding passes stored in Apple Wallet, even though it had / has all permissions to do so. Only when I checked the time and wondered why we weren't boarding yet, and opened the app did I notice that the gate changed. Even afterwards the one stored in Apple Wallet did not update. I even tried to do the pull-to-refresh. Eventually I pulled to refresh, and that worked.
  - realityking 2y ago
    To be fair, a printed boarding pass also didn’t update when the gate changed.
    - jmholla 2y ago
      But you also don't expect it to.
    - OptionOfT 2y ago
      No, but when you have a device in your hands, with an app provided by the company you're dealing with, and they specifically request permissions to send you notifications, you start to rely on it. An unreliable boarding pass in Apple Wallet is worse than a paper boarding pass. With the paper one I know I need to check the screens etc. With the Apple the app implies that you no longer have to do this. And you get used to it. You stop doing the things you did before. That muscle memory disappears. Not dissimilar to driving with GPS, or programming with AI.
    - asdff 2y ago
      Actually, it is updated more currently usually. Apple wallet will not update for me with the current gate. By the time I show up to the airport 2 hours before the flight and get a paper pass on the other hand usually the gate is already set. But apple wallet still won't always reflect that update to the gate. Whereas my printed pass does. As well as the good old fashioned boards of flights, which are pretty easy to gleam considering they are alphabetized.
  - asdff 2y ago
    This is my experience most flights to be honest. LAX doesn't assign gates until the last minute so apple wallet is usually wrong. Google search for the flight number always works of course.
- cbozeman 2y ago
  > > 1. Parking apps are worse than parking meters. > I certainly don't agree with that one. I really don't miss having to pay for a fixed number of hours and then having to figure out what to do if I'm running late (or wasting money if I get back early). Yeah... nothing more I love than having to scan a QR code to get an app from someone I don't know, then go through the signup process, then input a buncha personal information into an app... instead of just dropping 10 quarters into a metal stick and walking away for the next two hours. > > 4. Airline apps that are worse than just printing a boarding pass. > Unless the app is exceptionally horrible you can just export it to Apple/Android wallet which is much more convenient than having to find a printer. Looking to the left or right of your desk is how you should be finding your printer. They're not gold bars. They're not expensive.
  - realityking 2y ago
    > Yeah... nothing more I love than having to scan a QR code to get an app from someone I don't know, then go through the signup process, then input a buncha personal information into an app... instead of just dropping 10 quarters into a metal stick and walking away for the next two hours. Quality of execution obviously matters. I find EasyPark (Swedish company, used all over the place) a lot better than the usual parking meters. Plus I can use it in several cities with different currencies (in my case Euros and Czech Koruna), saving me from carrying more change.
    - mixmastamyk 2y ago
      The point is all these things should be options, not single points of failure. We should be able to pay by coin/tap, or app when at a place we frequent. Apps should use a single system per region, props for being an open standard. We have the technology.
      - kelnos 2y ago
        I don't think anyone is arguing that. While I wouldn't be surprised if app-only parking situations exist, I have never encountered one. Every place I've needed to park that had an app also offered the ability to pay with card (and often cash) at a meter or machine.
- 369548684892826 2y ago
  >> 1. Parking apps are worse than parking meters. > I certainly don't agree with that one. I really don't miss having to pay for a fixed number of hours and then having to figure out what to do if I'm running late (or wasting money if I get back early). Pay-on-exit car parks are the answer to this. Combined with contactless card payment and that's peak parking experience.
  - gs17 2y ago
    >Pay-on-exit car parks are the answer to this Except having the actual barrier is expensive. The license plate reader is cheaper, so they'll do that instead, and if it malfunctions, hope you don't mind paying for a full day of parking!
  - ncruces 2y ago
    Peek (parking) experience is the car having a tag and paying for itself, on parks, fuel pumps, toll roads at 120km/h (75mph), etc.
  - HDThoreaun 2y ago
    parking apps tend to replace metered street parking in my experience, not garages.
  - kelnos 2y ago
    > Pay-on-exit car parks are the answer to this. Combined with contactless card payment and that's peak parking experience. US here (you are presumably elsewhere given that you said "car park"), but I can't remember ever seeing a parking garage that had a parking app. All of them are like you describe, with pay-on-exit. I mainly see parking apps for street parking (where pay-on-exit can't work), and sometimes more basic parking lots where there isn't room for the entry/exit gate and hardware, or lots where it's bare-bones enough that the owner certainly isn't going to spring for the expense of installing something like that.
    - piperswe 2y ago
      In Austin, I've parked in a handful of parking garages that require using an app. They have license plate recognition on entry and exit, and they mail you a nastygram if you enter/exit without linking a credit card to your plate online.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- noah_buddy 2y ago
  The idea of a parking app is better than the physical process of using a meter generally. But I have not really seen an app flow better than the physical process despite having parked in many cities. In fact, I can come up with a simple physical process better than the apps by far: tap the meter in and tap the meter out with your NFC chip in the card. Pay for the exact time, or if you forget, pay the full time period you’re legally allowed to park. Instead, on my city’s app I must select a car (despite having only one), select a zone (despite GPS), and then manually enter my card (despite it being my account default). Every time.
  - __turbobrew__ 2y ago
    The Pay By Phone app works well for me. It automatically figures out what parking area you are in from the phone GPS, it already knows your license plate, and it has your credit card. Basically the flow for me is open the app, and hit how long I want to park for. And then the app will let me know when my parking is running out and I can add time on my phone without going back to the car.
  - Symbiote 2y ago
    The article explains that some local councils in Britain are removing the pay-by-card (NFC etc) parking meters in favour of an app, payment by phone, or at a nearby shop. This is to reduce costs.
- nicce 2y ago
  > I certainly don't agree with that one. I really don't miss having to pay for a fixed number of hours and then having to figure out what to do if I'm running late (or wasting money if I get back early). In my experiece, apps have increased costs around 50% and some even try to add monthly subscription.
- lucb1e 2y ago
  > you can just export it to Apple/Android wallet which is much more convenient than having to find a printer. ...or show the document they sent you rather than printing it? As someone who never installed these wallets (maybe I'm missing out), what's the problem they solve?
- Marsymars 2y ago
  > Unless the app is exceptionally horrible you can just export it to Apple/Android wallet which is much more convenient than having to find a printer. You can just print at the airport at the check-in machines. I never even bother checking-in in advance of arriving at the airport. I theorize that they assign bad seats to early checkins to incentivize people to pay to choose a different seats. I have at various times been assigned to upgraded seats (not upgraded class, but e.g. emergency row, bulkhead, etc.) when checking in at the airport.
  - piperswe 2y ago
    United's self service kiosks at some airports (e.g. AUS) no longer print boarding passes - they say that they're switching to only mobile boarding passes.
  - kelnos 2y ago
    > You can just print at the airport at the check-in machines. I have been to airports a non-trivial amount of times where there were lines even at the self-service kiosks. > I theorize that they assign bad seats to early checkins Oof, I would never fly an airline or buy a fare class that didn't let me choose a seat immediately, at time of booking. Anyway, this theory of yours needs some evidence... doesn't really pass the smell test for me.
    - Marsymars 2y ago
      > Oof, I would never fly an airline or buy a fare class that didn't let me choose a seat immediately, at time of booking. I mean, that just seems like an expensive way to pay for seat selection. e.g. Checking a route I fly frequently for an arbitrary date, it’s $232 (with seat selection in the $20 range) as the base fare rate, or $386 for the cheapest fare that includes seat selection. (With some other bonuses that don’t have any value to me, e.g. checked bags and a better cancellation policy.)
- teeray 2y ago
  > I certainly don't agree with that one. I really don't miss having to pay for a fixed number of hours and then having to figure out what to do if I'm running late But they are worse than mid-2000s tech. I used to have a tag with an lcd timer that I loaded up with cash periodically. When I parked in a metered space in the city, I just turn the thing on and hang it on my driver window. It was synced with the parking schedule, so the timer wouldn’t run until metered parking started and stopped at the end of metered parking. Parking enforcement simply had to look at the tag to make sure it was on and had a positive value. When I came back, I just shut the thing off—I paid for exactly what I used, always. Great UX: turn on thing, hang in window, remove, turn off thing, plug into computer to add money every few months. Compare to now where there’s An App that requires multiple taps to tell it which street your on, which car, oh look it forgot your credit card and they don’t take Apple Pay, time to enter all that data in again… oh yeah, also you have to overbuy parking and they charge transaction fees every time if you try to buy exact and add time later. Also, now parking enforcement has to key in everyone’s license plates to figure out if they’re legal or not (no automated plate readers—they’re illegal in this state). Apart from being annoying, now that data is conveniently harvested.
- Ray20 2y ago
  >Can't disagree about Tinder And what wrong with Tinder? It is great if you are hot or a woman. And if you are not - well, nobody never cared anyway.
  - pqtyw 2y ago
    Well I don't recall people picking their partners from a line-up being that popular. You might not be "hot" but still do fine in an environment with limited choice. If we trust those historical charts statistically over 70-80% of all people used to meet their partners though friends, work, school or family before the 2000s (work slowly replacing family since the 50s). Going out with random people you just met and had no other connection with was relatively rare. https://i.redd.it/uwe4cchpfz5c1.png https://i.redd.it/uwe4cchpfz5c1.png
- steelframe 2y ago
  > > 1. Parking apps are worse than parking meters. > I certainly don't agree with that one. I really don't miss having to pay for a fixed number of hours and then having to figure out what to do if I'm running late (or wasting money if I get back early). The last time I tried parking in downtown Salt Lake City the city's app wouldn't even install on my phone, complaining about being built for an older Android version. Fortunately the web site still worked. Sort of. I had to try a couple of different browsers before I found one that functioned with the site. When riding Caltrain I get charged for the maximum amount I could possibly pay (all stops) when I board. Then when I get off at my stop I tap again and get refunded for all the stops I ended up not getting to. It works fine. Seems a meter could be a "tap in/tap out" thing. If it's 5 hours until it's free to park, put a hold for 5 hours of time. If you get back in 2 hours, release the hold and only charge for 2 hours when you tap out. It's even possible to do this with cash. Imagine a machine that calculates your change and spits out bills and/or coins. Oh wait, yeah, we've had that technology since around 1959. It would just need to print out a ticket with a bar code or something to authenticate that you're the one who paid in the first place. Did you lose your ticket? Sorry, looks like you're paying for the rest of the day. But that's still a lot cheaper than a citation. I suspect it's not "pay max/get refund" because municipalities can't stop milking those sweet sweet citations from people who fail to correctly guess how much time they'll need up front.
- catlikesshrimp 2y ago
  > 1. Parking apps are worse than parking meters. Not the appS for parking in your location. ( I say apps because I would have to register to two apps and those don't cover 100% of districts) But where I live, the parking apps are buggy and resource hungry (could be just another bug) We can still buy 15 min / 30 min ,60 min tickets. The problem is each district has its own tickets :/ I still prefer the tickets. At least I know with certainty if I can park or not (depending on my having of tickets or not) But usually there is a private parking lot around the corner. Which is another argument agaisnt installing yet another app.
rqtwteye 2y ago
I would dispute your points 2 and 4. But yes, the trend towards apps is not very good. I am not sure if the apps are cheaper or just makes people think they are doing something modern and better. One thing is for sure, most apps based devices won't age well.
internet2000 2y ago
I don't think I could disagree more with your number 4. Adding a boarding pass to Apple Wallet and having it update itself with gate changes, delays, etc, notifying you and even scribbling skeuomorphically what changed on the pass [0] has been one of the strongest delighters I've experienced in recent times. [0] https://i.imgur.com/OkthcOi.png https://i.imgur.com/OkthcOi.png
- tdeck 2y ago
  You can do that with a boarding pass downloaded from the airline website or emailed to you by the airline. But some airlines like to hide this option in order to force you to download their app.
  - Kwpolska 2y ago
    How can you remotely update a PDF file after someone downloaded it?
    - tdeck 2y ago
      Why would you need to do that? The boarding pass has a QR code on it; the QR code links to your ticket. If you need to change your booking, they can email you a new one.
      - JustExAWS 2y ago
        They are referring to gate and time changes
        tdeck 2y ago
        And? These are available on google, on the airline's website, and on screens throughout the terminal. Many airlines will send them to you via SMS. There's no need to have a whole app just to check your gate assignment.
        2y ago
kccqzy 2y ago
I've seen good airline apps and bad airline apps. The good ones allow you to do things like checking your own bags and dropping off bags without talking to anyone. The bad ones simply are slow and have missing features: you may be able to buy a ticket but changing it requires calling a number. (Of course if you are the type to prefer human customer service, these won't appeal to you.)
- fundingshovel 2y ago
  Even if you do they might? Good service in app can lead to shorter wait times for people that need to talk to humans
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
_fat_santa 2y ago
And don't forget an increasing number of consumer electronics now need to be "activated" via an app.
bdcravens 2y ago
Having taken both academic classes in Spanish, and using Duolingo for multiple years, I feel like Duolingo is a faster, more cost effective option for establishing a foundation. Obviously if you want to approach fluency, submersion is necessary.
- poincaredisk 2y ago
  Not to mention that it's hard to take a language class while commuting in a bus.
nayuki 2y ago
> Parking apps are worse than parking meters. Case in point - Toronto Parking Authority (Green P)'s app forces you to keep a balance and refill in multiples of $20 CAD, whereas street parking meters can charge your credit card in any increment as necessary (e.g. $1.25). Also, the app forces you to disclose your phone number as an account identifier; you have no option to sign up by email or username. https://mobilepay.greenp.com/faq/i-have-a-new-phone-number-what-do-i-do-2/ https://mobilepay.greenp.com/faq/i-have-a-new-phone-number-w... The culture of designing user-hostile apps is wild.
rglover 2y ago
> 1. Parking apps are worse than parking meters. Generally, yes, (it may have improved since I left but the Chicago one was a nightmare a few years back) however the best experience I've ever had was in Nashville (don't recall the company name). I signed up via the web (no app) and then the parking lot has cameras/sensors that detect my plate. Any parking lot owned by that company is now accessible to me in the city. I can just pull in, it detects me (notifying me my "session" has started), and then charges my card on file when I pull out (either in an hour, or even the next day). As with a lot of things, there are often examples of well-executed solutions at the fringes, they're just not deployed at a large enough scale to cancel out the other negative examples. Software can improve a lot, but it's down to the team/individuals involved to care enough to do it right (and not be distracted by other incentives).
- eep_social 2y ago
  Sounds fantastic. Literally not an app. Bring back websites.
marssaxman 2y ago
In general, I agree with your observation, but in terms of Duolingo it does not matter whether language classes would have been better, because I was never going to sign up for them. Letting myself get hooked on another daily word game was a commitment I could actually make, and after plugging away at it with steadily increasing enthusiasm for a little over a year now, I've gained a significant degree of fluency I would not otherwise have. Thus I think that Duolingo offers a genuinely valuable service, not directly comparable to language classes.
maeil 2y ago
>1. Parking apps are worse than parking meters. The customers for these apps are the parking lot operators and they love the apps. > 2. Tinder is worse than IRL speed dating. It is now, it definitely wasn't when it first came out. Prime example of enshittification, but not an example of what you're conveying. > 3. Duolingo is worse than language classes. This one I feel has the most merit, but still not a lot. What % of Duolingo users would've actually taken classes were it not for these apps? Also, some people don't learn well from classes (I'm one of them). Not that that makes Duolingo any better, but despite its pretenses it's squarely aimed at extremely shallow, casual, surface-level learning that might be useful on a holiday. And people don't take classes for that. > 4. Airline apps that are worse than just printing a boarding pass. In what way? Admittedly I've only used the apps of 2 airlines, but they worked fine.
Neonlicht 2y ago
I recently had to buy a printer because some shitty company didn't accept my smartphone screen. It was a lot less convenient let me tell you.
201984 2y ago
Re no. 1, what are you supposed to do in those cities if you don't have a smartphone? Just get a ticket? Seems heavily discriminatory against the poor.
xxr 2y ago
A few months ago, I had to use street parking in Long Beach, California. They no longer had individual meters along this particular street, but rather one parking sticker machine. The parking sticker machine was broken, so I had to download the advertised parking payment app which was not one of the parking apps I already had on my phone. Finally, I had to pay an additional “convenience” fee on top to use this app that I wouldn’t have needed to pay using physical payment infrastructure. So everyone wins here, except us: the app company gets to make a killing on compulsory payment processing, and City of Long Beach gets to continue to pull in parking revenue without worrying about whether their payment machines still work—a broken machine is not an excuse because you can still pay with the app because everyone has a smartphone with an up-to-date OS and functioning cell service with appropriate bandwidth, right? I’m sure I could have complained to the city and gotten my +/-dollar back, but I didn’t have time just to do so for the principle of the thing.
- kelnos 2y ago
  Ugh, that's gross. And I bet if you hadn't paid, gotten a ticket, and then defended yourself by saying the machine was broken, they would have still fined you because the app was available. It should be illegal to have that sort of setup... if the lowest-common-denominator form of payment is broken, then it should be free.
gs17 2y ago
> Parking apps are worse than parking meters. I had a frustrating experience with this. We were staying in a small town and the casino had a ferry to cross the river, which would save 20 minutes driving and be kind of neat. I'm guessing they had issues with the staff collecting payments, so they had switched to a parking app to pay for it. You pay for the ferry as a "parking lot" and it should all work fine. Signs at the road to it say to pay before proceeding, so I do. After driving all the way up, it turns out the ferry wasn't running (they neglected to close the gate at the start of the road). The parking app was tied into a pair of license plate readers on the boat, but since I couldn't drive past the "exit", they never considered my "parking" to end and it racked up a charge over two days. Of course, the "parking" starts without my car being detected going on to the boat. Fortunately, I got a refund, but it required jumping through a bunch of hoops. If we paid the way it used to be done this wouldn't be possible at all! >Airline apps that are worse than just printing a boarding pass. Delta's app is pretty good. I really like the peace of mind from being able to see where my bags are, including when they get put on the conveyor.
- genewitch 2y ago
  You know what all these stories kind of sound like me? When some new technology comes out and you see somebody and they're like, one of the first people to buy it and they're like, oh, check this out. And then they try to show you something, but it doesn't work? So if the parking thing is broken and I don't have my phone with me I can't go to the doctor today? Cool. If a meter was broken I could just go to another spot with a working meter. In Laguna beach they had $1 coin machines to get around the "ten quarters" thing, and this was 20 years ago!
dehrmann 2y ago
> 4. Airline apps that are worse than just printing a boarding pass. Whenever I fly business class for an international trip, I always check in at the counter. It's just as fast, but getting that boarding pass printing on cardstock and tucked into the photo page of my passport feels so quaint and charming.
- kelnos 2y ago
  > I always check in at the counter. It's just as fast Having waited in several check-in counter lines because the airline's app insists that a human needs to check my travel documents before giving me a boarding pass, no, it is so not just as fast. Even for business class. Even if there is no line, I can tap through a mobile app check-in flow (in the comfort of my own home!) faster than a check-in agent will usually verify my identity and print a boarding pass. Regardless, I'd rather not add that kind of variability into the airport process, and have to pad my arrival time even more. > getting that boarding pass printing on cardstock and tucked into the photo page of my passport feels so quaint and charming. This made me smile :)
mixmastamyk 2y ago
Yes, in the digital world these folks feel like they can strongarm you, in a way they would never have the gall to do in person. By demanding full information and customer-hostile rules. Sorry, we don't "support" anything else at this time!
aprilthird2021 2y ago
But all of those situations require human labor or oversight which is extremely expensive in the developed world. So in the sense that they allow people to access these things for cheaper they are better. And Tinder, Duolingo, etc. are at least cheaper. The other two the cost savings is gained by the government or the airline
dwedge 2y ago
Printing a boarding pass for the return trip when you can only check in 36 hours before departure is a lot trickier than printing at home. I'd prefer to print but this is one of the things that is simpler. The only annoying part is when the app gets battery killed with terrible reception in the airport and then takes 2 minutes to show you the boarding pass it already downloaded.
- JustExAWS 2y ago
  That’s why you put your boarding pass in your phone’s wallet
  - dwedge 2y ago
    I don't use my phone wallet, but I suppose that is the purpose of it.
- tsm 2y ago
  Time was you could check in online and get the ticket counter agent to print your boarding pass for you
fsckboy 2y ago
>2. Tinder is worse than IRL speed dating. women, and a small pool of men, use Tinder to efficiently find hookups. IRL speed dating is actually a much bigger pain in the ass for that purpose. it's "uber for nookie"
mihaaly 2y ago
I believe they alwasy want and do change or revolution, or the most notorius ones disrupt life. No improvement - displacement vector towards the positive half space of life quality - is implied, except for those selling it.
cblum 2y ago
> Parking apps are worse than parking meters. I generally agree, but I’ve had a great experience with one of those. I just wish they all did the same streamlined thing this one particular app I used did. The QR code I had to scan actually ran an App Clip instead of taking me to a website. Everything was done in one screen: enter plate, parking stall number, hours. My physical interaction with it was just scrolling a little and hitting a button. Done. Wonderful. Most parking solitions are a shitshow though. Multiple screens (seriously, why?!), having to create an account, not handling payment via Apple Pay so I have to enter my credit card manually. Having to enter the parking location manually (how come it’s not a parameter in the QR code URL?). I’d really like to know what happens at the companies that develop those. It’s borderline criminal how bad they are.
rramadass 2y ago
You have hit the nail right on the head. I had come to this conclusion long ago i.e. computers/software are now majorly being oriented towards purely money-making (for certain vested interests) rather than doing any good for people/society or the world in general. The original idealism is long gone.
kelnos 2y ago
> Parking apps are worse than parking meters. Ehhhhh. In the case where it's a one-off, yes, because I'm not going to install an app and give it my payment details if I only expect to rarely park in a particular place. But, for example, in downtown Truckee, California, I always use the parking app, especially in the winter, so I don't have to futz with a machine out in the cold while my fingers are freezing. I pay from inside the warmth of my car, or inside the building I'm going to. Even in the summer, it's nice to be able to pay while I'm walking to my destination, rather than stand there staring at a machine, waiting for it to charge my credit card. It's also great to be able to "feed the meter" from my table at the restaurant if end up there longer than I expected, and the time has run out. > Airline apps that are worse than just printing a boarding pass. To each their own, I guess. In general I prefer not to waste paper for one-time use things, and when I'm traveling I already have my phone, and not having to keep track of more things is a plus. I do worry about situations where I could lose or break my phone (though I could lose a printed boarding pass too) or its battery runs out, but if that happens I can still go to the check-in counter or a kiosk and get a boarding pass printed, so I'm really no worse off than if I didn't have the mobile app in the first place.
seabombs 2y ago
Though there are exceptions (even amongst your examples IMO), of the good-fast-cheap triangle I feel the majority choose fast and cheap.
Minor49er 2y ago
I paid for a parking space in Cambridge, MA once and got fined by a meter maid. The department didn't answer any communications I placed about it. I learned my lesson to always carry cash and never trust the app
Izkata 2y ago
> 2. Tinder is worse than IRL speed dating. I don't know about Tinder specifically, but from what I've heard apps seem to be where most people meet nowadays - you'll find normal people mixed in with the weirdos. Meanwhile real-life speed dating is where the really desperate people go and is mostly weirdos.
sobakeitso 2y ago
Lots of issues with your claims. 1. Parking Kitty is much much easier than fussing with grafitti-ed, vandalized, unserviced parking machines. 2. Speak for yourself, Tinder is a great rebound app; vastly more productive than the limited pools at speed dating (which was big in like, 1998?) 3. True. But I don't have time for language classes. Anecdote but Duolingo brought my French language skills back to life, but probably because I already had them. 4. Do you travel much? Apps are far, far superior to any mechanism. Let's say your flight is cancelled due to weather. You can (a) call the 800 number and wait in a phone queue, (b) go to the desk and wait in a physical queue, which is challenging if you are in a country that is not your native language, or (c) log into the app to make changes instead of waiting for a person. Have you ever wanted to change your seat, or upgrade? You have the same three choices. Yeah, apps are hands-down light-years ahead of alternatives when you travel frequently.
tremon 2y ago
1. Parking apps are worse than parking meters. Here in NL, parking apps show predictions of available parking spaces and some even allow reservation: you book a timeslot and enter your license plate, and on arrival the gates open automatically when it recognizes your license plate. No more fiddling with tickets, no queueing at the payment console. For on-street parking, the apps usually allow two ways of parking registration: either you enter the location where you're parked (via manual lookup or phone GPS location), or you scan a QR code displayed on road signs. I'd call this one a solid win. 4. Airline apps that are worse than just printing a boarding pass. The train service here has this reminder in various locations: "If you use your phone to store/buy your ticket, you are responsible for keeping it charged. If your phone drains empty, you don't have a valid ticket and will be fined." I wouldn't want to be in the situation where I need to transfer after a long-haul flight and find my phone empty. For me, paper always beats battery for longevity of important documents.

pqtyw 2y ago

> 1. Parking apps are worse than parking meters. I certainly don't agree with that one. I really don't miss having to pay for a fixed number of hours and then having to figure out what to do if I'm running late (or wasting money if I get back early). > 4. Airline apps that are worse than just printing a boarding pass. Unless the app is exceptionally horrible you can just export it to Apple/Android wallet which is much more convenient than having to find a printer. Duolingo isn't really a replacement for classes (which are obviously a magnitude or few more expensive) but self learnings books, tapes and such (IMHO it's mostly inferior to those too but not by a such high degree). Can't disagree about Tinder/etc. though.

lambda 2y ago
I'm kind of puzzled by your first point. In my experience, parking apps require you to pay in larger chunks of hours than paying with coins used to; many times I have to pay for a minimum of 2 hours of parking with the app when I could pay for just 10 or 15 minutes of parking with coins.
- svelle 2y ago
  The parking app I use in Berlin, easy park, works in the sense that I pre-select a timeframe I think im going to park which then gives me an estimate for how much it'll cost and reserve that amount using my CC. When I end the parking before that timer ends, the actual time I've parked will be taken and only that amount is charged. It used to be even better in the sense that you'd only start and then end parking without having to pre select a time. But I think too many people, me included, forgot to end the parking when taking off and paid way more than they actually parked for.
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    Of course the apps could easily detect that parking has ended. They could note your location when you park. When the phone returns to that location, and then moves at driving speed, parking has ended. But they don't because they make more money by profiting from people who forget to "clock out" when they are done parking.
    - rad_gruchalski 2y ago
      Yes, that’s what we need, parking apps tracking user’s location 24/7.
    - pohuing 2y ago
      Don't android and IOS try to prevent background location tracking? The location permission dialogs don't even have that option
    - svelle 2y ago
      > Of course the apps could easily detect that parking has ended. They could note your location when you park. When the phone returns to that location, and then moves at driving speed, parking has ended. They could at least start with adding proper CarPlay and Android Auto support so you can just end the parking from the infotainment. But I think there can be at most a single engineer working on this app if at all. Up until a couple months ago it didn't even have the option for a persistent notification to remind you that you had an ongoing parking... > But they don't because they make more money by profiting from people who forget to "clock out" when they are done parking. fwiw, at least in this case, the app that profited from you not clocking out got shut down and bought out by the app that asks you to pre-set your parking time. Which I guess is still not great, but at least somewhat of a step up.
      - Marsymars 2y ago
        > But I think there can be at most a single engineer working on this app if at all. I assume they’re contracted out to the lowest bidder. In my city the payment schedule on the app significantly lags the meters/official rates. Fine when prices go up, but pretty annoying to app-users when the app charges more than the official parking rates. Maybe if they get their merchant account sanctioned for too many chargebacks someone will take notice.
- gs17 2y ago
  >In my experience, parking apps require you to pay in larger chunks of hours than paying with coins used to; Here in Nashville, they sold out our public street parking to a private company. Now instead of coins in a meter for the time you want, you have to buy at least an hour for $1.75 (or more), pay by scanning a QR code (which is misprinted on the signs) unless you're in one of the spots where there's a working pay machine, and it now is enforced 24/7 instead of having holidays and weekends off (IIRC it was also free after 6, which was great). Also they had two hour limits where you can't simply move your car, you have to park somewhere they don't check for an indeterminate amount of time. How is any of this an improvement unless you get a cut of the money?
  - looofooo0 2y ago
    Has nothing to do with technology.
- pqtyw 2y ago
  I depends on the app I guess, where I am you just click to start/stop and (IIRC) get billed at 15 minute increments.
- gamedever 2y ago
  Parking apps requires registration. I arrive, park my car then (1) via machine: insert my card into the machine, get ticket, leave (2) via app: spend 10 minutes registering an account, email, password, phone number, wants verification via email or phone number, wants me to register my credit card and the agree to them selling all my data. IF on the other hand, they just made it use some kind of common e-cash and no registration, no tracking, no account, I'd be 100% for it.
  - kelnos 2y ago
    If you pay with a card, then they can track you, so it doesn't really matter if you put that card into a machine or into an app account. For places where I don't expect to return (or only rarely), sure, having to do an app is annoying. But for places where you expect to use it often enough, it can be a time-saver, after the initial time cost of setup.
- kelnos 2y ago
  Strange, I only have experience with two parking apps, but they both let you pay in 15-minute increments. I have seen meters that have smaller increments, like sub-10-minutes, but when the increments cost something like 50 cents, it's hard to really care that much.
- petepete 2y ago
  On public transport I can tap in and tap out with the wallet on phone or any bank card. Car parks could work in exactly the same way, but instead there are 15 apps.
noqc 2y ago
what if your phone runs out of battery?
- tokioyoyo 2y ago
  I’m gonna say something stupid — the chances of my phone running out of battery and me not being able to charge it is lower than me losing the paper ticket.
  - crazygringo 2y ago
    Not stupid at all. I think that's the case for most people. It's easy to lose a random piece of paper. Whereas people are generally extremely aware of where their phone is at all times.
    - noqc 2y ago
      It's not that hard to maintain a random piece of paper, you do it with your ID, which presumably you do not keep on your phone. It is much harder to ensure an iPhone won't randomly be miscalibrated and shut off at 30%.
      - crazygringo 2y ago
        Not it's not hard, but it is significantly harder, and why introduce unnecessary additional complexity into my life? My ID is in my wallet. A sheet of paper doesn't fit in my wallet. So I have to put the folded paper in a pocket, where it might fall out when I take out my gloves, or I forget if I put it in my backpack, and in which pocket, etc. A sheet of paper is extra. My phone isn't. And I sure as heck don't bring a phone with low charge to the airport... when I know I'm probably going to be using it for hours... and I've got my charger with me anyways in case I somehow did.
      - joseda-hg 2y ago
        I do it with my ID because I've conditioned myself to check for it everytime I'm going to move places, or rather, check for my wallet, which usually has my ID inside it, but has burned me on a couple of ocassions Also, some people do keep their ID on their phones, either directly on the back of the case (I've seen it more on young women, maybe because lack of pockets) or with something like a magnetic wallet
ryandrake 2y ago
Don’t people just print their boarding passes at home before they leave for the airport? Or worst case, use the kiosks at the airports which print passes? Very few of the passengers in line ahead of me are using their phones.
- tokioyoyo 2y ago
  Depends where you are and which flights. Around me, maybe 60% of people use mobile. From the other 40%, some probably got their paper tickets when they checked in their baggage and going with that now. > boarding passes at home before they leave for the airport It’s been years I’ve heard or seen anyone doing it. Even my parents in their 70s get theirs at the airport.
  - kxrm 2y ago
    I guess I am weird. I still do this. I just don't want to have to worry about my device being available during boarding nor do I want to have to stop at a kiosk. Just print at home, go through security and scan at the gate.
    - crazygringo 2y ago
      > I just don't want to have to worry about my device being available during boarding I don't think most people worry about that at all. Why wouldn't it be available? If you're heading to the airport from home, your battery is charged. And if your phone somehow breaks on the way, you print at a kiosk. It seems far more likely that I'd lose a random piece of paper on the way to the airport than lose my phone...
      - ryandrake 2y ago
        Maybe I'm weird, but when I go on a trip, I generally pack my smartphone, if I bring it at all. It would be a royal pain to go find it again when I get into line to board.
        2y ago
TeMPOraL 2y ago
> Unless the app is exceptionally horrible you can just export it to Apple/Android wallet which is much more convenient than having to find a printer. Why do iOS and Android phones have a "wallet", and why a boarding pass would have anything to do with it? There's an electronic solution strictly better than the app, for when you have no printer handy: just give the user the goddamned PDF! Works everywhere, works offline, can be printed if needed, and the user can manage, send or back it up however they like. It's a simple solution that works.
- closewith 2y ago
  I have a few qualms with this app: 1. For a Linux user, you can already build such a system yourself quite trivially by getting an FTP account, mounting it locally with curlftpfs, and then using SVN or CVS on the mounted filesystem. From Windows or Mac, this FTP account could be accessed through built-in software. 2. It doesn't actually replace a USB drive. Most people I know e-mail files to themselves or host them somewhere online to be able to perform presentations, but they still carry a USB drive in case there are connectivity problems. This does not solve the connectivity issue. 3. It does not seem very "viral" or income-generating. I know this is premature at this point, but without charging users for the service, is it reasonable to expect to make money off of this?
  - porridgeraisin 2y ago
    Context: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224
- realityking 2y ago
  You can do that if you want. Most airlines issue PDF boarding passes and both iOS and Android can store and show those files. Apple Wallet (and Apple Pay) are actually one of my favorite smartphone features. The built-in Wallet (speaking for iOS here) has a few advantages over a folder of PDFs: - The QR code is always fairly big without having to pan and zoom a PDF file - The display brightness is automatically increased to make reading the QR code easier - The Wallet syncs with my Apple Watch (where passes use a different, optimized layout) giving me backup if something where to happen to my phone during boarding - Passes can be updated by the airline (e.g. gate changes) - Passes automatically expire, I don’t have to cleanup myself. (There’s archive in case I need an old one) - Passes can be shown on your lock screen during the boarding time for easier access - Passes can be multilingual, adapting to your phone’s language
dpkirchner 2y ago
> I certainly don't agree with that one. I really don't miss having to pay for a fixed number of hours and then having to figure out what to do if I'm running late (or wasting money if I get back early). Maybe it's better these days, but back when I used to use online apps/sites to pay for parking in private lots, 4/5 times I still got a "ticket." I never had to pay the fine with money, only with time. I think it really was the 4th time I decided to stop using those apps entirely. Sometimes I wonder if the devs behind these apps and processes feel embarrassed by the results. I would be, even if the failures weren't my fault.
thfuran 2y ago
>Unless the app is exceptionally horrible you can just export it to Apple/Android wallet which is much more convenient than having to find a printer. And once the gate or departure time changes, your printed boarding pass will start lying to you.
OptionOfT 2y ago
I recently got bitten in the rear by Delta not updating boarding passes stored in Apple Wallet, even though it had / has all permissions to do so. Only when I checked the time and wondered why we weren't boarding yet, and opened the app did I notice that the gate changed. Even afterwards the one stored in Apple Wallet did not update. I even tried to do the pull-to-refresh. Eventually I pulled to refresh, and that worked.
- realityking 2y ago
  To be fair, a printed boarding pass also didn’t update when the gate changed.
  - jmholla 2y ago
    But you also don't expect it to.
  - OptionOfT 2y ago
    No, but when you have a device in your hands, with an app provided by the company you're dealing with, and they specifically request permissions to send you notifications, you start to rely on it. An unreliable boarding pass in Apple Wallet is worse than a paper boarding pass. With the paper one I know I need to check the screens etc. With the Apple the app implies that you no longer have to do this. And you get used to it. You stop doing the things you did before. That muscle memory disappears. Not dissimilar to driving with GPS, or programming with AI.
  - asdff 2y ago
    Actually, it is updated more currently usually. Apple wallet will not update for me with the current gate. By the time I show up to the airport 2 hours before the flight and get a paper pass on the other hand usually the gate is already set. But apple wallet still won't always reflect that update to the gate. Whereas my printed pass does. As well as the good old fashioned boards of flights, which are pretty easy to gleam considering they are alphabetized.
- asdff 2y ago
  This is my experience most flights to be honest. LAX doesn't assign gates until the last minute so apple wallet is usually wrong. Google search for the flight number always works of course.
cbozeman 2y ago
> > 1. Parking apps are worse than parking meters. > I certainly don't agree with that one. I really don't miss having to pay for a fixed number of hours and then having to figure out what to do if I'm running late (or wasting money if I get back early). Yeah... nothing more I love than having to scan a QR code to get an app from someone I don't know, then go through the signup process, then input a buncha personal information into an app... instead of just dropping 10 quarters into a metal stick and walking away for the next two hours. > > 4. Airline apps that are worse than just printing a boarding pass. > Unless the app is exceptionally horrible you can just export it to Apple/Android wallet which is much more convenient than having to find a printer. Looking to the left or right of your desk is how you should be finding your printer. They're not gold bars. They're not expensive.
- realityking 2y ago
  > Yeah... nothing more I love than having to scan a QR code to get an app from someone I don't know, then go through the signup process, then input a buncha personal information into an app... instead of just dropping 10 quarters into a metal stick and walking away for the next two hours. Quality of execution obviously matters. I find EasyPark (Swedish company, used all over the place) a lot better than the usual parking meters. Plus I can use it in several cities with different currencies (in my case Euros and Czech Koruna), saving me from carrying more change.
  - mixmastamyk 2y ago
    The point is all these things should be options, not single points of failure. We should be able to pay by coin/tap, or app when at a place we frequent. Apps should use a single system per region, props for being an open standard. We have the technology.
    - kelnos 2y ago
      I don't think anyone is arguing that. While I wouldn't be surprised if app-only parking situations exist, I have never encountered one. Every place I've needed to park that had an app also offered the ability to pay with card (and often cash) at a meter or machine.
369548684892826 2y ago
>> 1. Parking apps are worse than parking meters. > I certainly don't agree with that one. I really don't miss having to pay for a fixed number of hours and then having to figure out what to do if I'm running late (or wasting money if I get back early). Pay-on-exit car parks are the answer to this. Combined with contactless card payment and that's peak parking experience.
- gs17 2y ago
  >Pay-on-exit car parks are the answer to this Except having the actual barrier is expensive. The license plate reader is cheaper, so they'll do that instead, and if it malfunctions, hope you don't mind paying for a full day of parking!
- ncruces 2y ago
  Peek (parking) experience is the car having a tag and paying for itself, on parks, fuel pumps, toll roads at 120km/h (75mph), etc.
- HDThoreaun 2y ago
  parking apps tend to replace metered street parking in my experience, not garages.
- kelnos 2y ago
  > Pay-on-exit car parks are the answer to this. Combined with contactless card payment and that's peak parking experience. US here (you are presumably elsewhere given that you said "car park"), but I can't remember ever seeing a parking garage that had a parking app. All of them are like you describe, with pay-on-exit. I mainly see parking apps for street parking (where pay-on-exit can't work), and sometimes more basic parking lots where there isn't room for the entry/exit gate and hardware, or lots where it's bare-bones enough that the owner certainly isn't going to spring for the expense of installing something like that.
  - piperswe 2y ago
    In Austin, I've parked in a handful of parking garages that require using an app. They have license plate recognition on entry and exit, and they mail you a nastygram if you enter/exit without linking a credit card to your plate online.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
noah_buddy 2y ago
The idea of a parking app is better than the physical process of using a meter generally. But I have not really seen an app flow better than the physical process despite having parked in many cities. In fact, I can come up with a simple physical process better than the apps by far: tap the meter in and tap the meter out with your NFC chip in the card. Pay for the exact time, or if you forget, pay the full time period you’re legally allowed to park. Instead, on my city’s app I must select a car (despite having only one), select a zone (despite GPS), and then manually enter my card (despite it being my account default). Every time.
- __turbobrew__ 2y ago
  The Pay By Phone app works well for me. It automatically figures out what parking area you are in from the phone GPS, it already knows your license plate, and it has your credit card. Basically the flow for me is open the app, and hit how long I want to park for. And then the app will let me know when my parking is running out and I can add time on my phone without going back to the car.
- Symbiote 2y ago
  The article explains that some local councils in Britain are removing the pay-by-card (NFC etc) parking meters in favour of an app, payment by phone, or at a nearby shop. This is to reduce costs.
nicce 2y ago
> I certainly don't agree with that one. I really don't miss having to pay for a fixed number of hours and then having to figure out what to do if I'm running late (or wasting money if I get back early). In my experiece, apps have increased costs around 50% and some even try to add monthly subscription.
lucb1e 2y ago
> you can just export it to Apple/Android wallet which is much more convenient than having to find a printer. ...or show the document they sent you rather than printing it? As someone who never installed these wallets (maybe I'm missing out), what's the problem they solve?
Marsymars 2y ago
> Unless the app is exceptionally horrible you can just export it to Apple/Android wallet which is much more convenient than having to find a printer. You can just print at the airport at the check-in machines. I never even bother checking-in in advance of arriving at the airport. I theorize that they assign bad seats to early checkins to incentivize people to pay to choose a different seats. I have at various times been assigned to upgraded seats (not upgraded class, but e.g. emergency row, bulkhead, etc.) when checking in at the airport.
- piperswe 2y ago
  United's self service kiosks at some airports (e.g. AUS) no longer print boarding passes - they say that they're switching to only mobile boarding passes.
- kelnos 2y ago
  > You can just print at the airport at the check-in machines. I have been to airports a non-trivial amount of times where there were lines even at the self-service kiosks. > I theorize that they assign bad seats to early checkins Oof, I would never fly an airline or buy a fare class that didn't let me choose a seat immediately, at time of booking. Anyway, this theory of yours needs some evidence... doesn't really pass the smell test for me.
  - Marsymars 2y ago
    > Oof, I would never fly an airline or buy a fare class that didn't let me choose a seat immediately, at time of booking. I mean, that just seems like an expensive way to pay for seat selection. e.g. Checking a route I fly frequently for an arbitrary date, it’s $232 (with seat selection in the $20 range) as the base fare rate, or $386 for the cheapest fare that includes seat selection. (With some other bonuses that don’t have any value to me, e.g. checked bags and a better cancellation policy.)
teeray 2y ago
> I certainly don't agree with that one. I really don't miss having to pay for a fixed number of hours and then having to figure out what to do if I'm running late But they are worse than mid-2000s tech. I used to have a tag with an lcd timer that I loaded up with cash periodically. When I parked in a metered space in the city, I just turn the thing on and hang it on my driver window. It was synced with the parking schedule, so the timer wouldn’t run until metered parking started and stopped at the end of metered parking. Parking enforcement simply had to look at the tag to make sure it was on and had a positive value. When I came back, I just shut the thing off—I paid for exactly what I used, always. Great UX: turn on thing, hang in window, remove, turn off thing, plug into computer to add money every few months. Compare to now where there’s An App that requires multiple taps to tell it which street your on, which car, oh look it forgot your credit card and they don’t take Apple Pay, time to enter all that data in again… oh yeah, also you have to overbuy parking and they charge transaction fees every time if you try to buy exact and add time later. Also, now parking enforcement has to key in everyone’s license plates to figure out if they’re legal or not (no automated plate readers—they’re illegal in this state). Apart from being annoying, now that data is conveniently harvested.
Ray20 2y ago
>Can't disagree about Tinder And what wrong with Tinder? It is great if you are hot or a woman. And if you are not - well, nobody never cared anyway.
- pqtyw 2y ago
  Well I don't recall people picking their partners from a line-up being that popular. You might not be "hot" but still do fine in an environment with limited choice. If we trust those historical charts statistically over 70-80% of all people used to meet their partners though friends, work, school or family before the 2000s (work slowly replacing family since the 50s). Going out with random people you just met and had no other connection with was relatively rare. https://i.redd.it/uwe4cchpfz5c1.png https://i.redd.it/uwe4cchpfz5c1.png
steelframe 2y ago
> > 1. Parking apps are worse than parking meters. > I certainly don't agree with that one. I really don't miss having to pay for a fixed number of hours and then having to figure out what to do if I'm running late (or wasting money if I get back early). The last time I tried parking in downtown Salt Lake City the city's app wouldn't even install on my phone, complaining about being built for an older Android version. Fortunately the web site still worked. Sort of. I had to try a couple of different browsers before I found one that functioned with the site. When riding Caltrain I get charged for the maximum amount I could possibly pay (all stops) when I board. Then when I get off at my stop I tap again and get refunded for all the stops I ended up not getting to. It works fine. Seems a meter could be a "tap in/tap out" thing. If it's 5 hours until it's free to park, put a hold for 5 hours of time. If you get back in 2 hours, release the hold and only charge for 2 hours when you tap out. It's even possible to do this with cash. Imagine a machine that calculates your change and spits out bills and/or coins. Oh wait, yeah, we've had that technology since around 1959. It would just need to print out a ticket with a bar code or something to authenticate that you're the one who paid in the first place. Did you lose your ticket? Sorry, looks like you're paying for the rest of the day. But that's still a lot cheaper than a citation. I suspect it's not "pay max/get refund" because municipalities can't stop milking those sweet sweet citations from people who fail to correctly guess how much time they'll need up front.
catlikesshrimp 2y ago
> 1. Parking apps are worse than parking meters. Not the appS for parking in your location. ( I say apps because I would have to register to two apps and those don't cover 100% of districts) But where I live, the parking apps are buggy and resource hungry (could be just another bug) We can still buy 15 min / 30 min ,60 min tickets. The problem is each district has its own tickets :/ I still prefer the tickets. At least I know with certainty if I can park or not (depending on my having of tickets or not) But usually there is a private parking lot around the corner. Which is another argument agaisnt installing yet another app.

rqtwteye 2y ago

I would dispute your points 2 and 4. But yes, the trend towards apps is not very good. I am not sure if the apps are cheaper or just makes people think they are doing something modern and better. One thing is for sure, most apps based devices won't age well.

internet2000 2y ago

I don't think I could disagree more with your number 4. Adding a boarding pass to Apple Wallet and having it update itself with gate changes, delays, etc, notifying you and even scribbling skeuomorphically what changed on the pass [0] has been one of the strongest delighters I've experienced in recent times. [0] https://i.imgur.com/OkthcOi.png https://i.imgur.com/OkthcOi.png

tdeck 2y ago
You can do that with a boarding pass downloaded from the airline website or emailed to you by the airline. But some airlines like to hide this option in order to force you to download their app.
- Kwpolska 2y ago
  How can you remotely update a PDF file after someone downloaded it?
  - tdeck 2y ago
    Why would you need to do that? The boarding pass has a QR code on it; the QR code links to your ticket. If you need to change your booking, they can email you a new one.
    - JustExAWS 2y ago
      They are referring to gate and time changes
      - tdeck 2y ago
        And? These are available on google, on the airline's website, and on screens throughout the terminal. Many airlines will send them to you via SMS. There's no need to have a whole app just to check your gate assignment.
        2y ago

kccqzy 2y ago

I've seen good airline apps and bad airline apps. The good ones allow you to do things like checking your own bags and dropping off bags without talking to anyone. The bad ones simply are slow and have missing features: you may be able to buy a ticket but changing it requires calling a number. (Of course if you are the type to prefer human customer service, these won't appeal to you.)

fundingshovel 2y ago
Even if you do they might? Good service in app can lead to shorter wait times for people that need to talk to humans

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

_fat_santa 2y ago

And don't forget an increasing number of consumer electronics now need to be "activated" via an app.

bdcravens 2y ago

Having taken both academic classes in Spanish, and using Duolingo for multiple years, I feel like Duolingo is a faster, more cost effective option for establishing a foundation. Obviously if you want to approach fluency, submersion is necessary.

poincaredisk 2y ago
Not to mention that it's hard to take a language class while commuting in a bus.

nayuki 2y ago

> Parking apps are worse than parking meters. Case in point - Toronto Parking Authority (Green P)'s app forces you to keep a balance and refill in multiples of $20 CAD, whereas street parking meters can charge your credit card in any increment as necessary (e.g. $1.25). Also, the app forces you to disclose your phone number as an account identifier; you have no option to sign up by email or username. https://mobilepay.greenp.com/faq/i-have-a-new-phone-number-what-do-i-do-2/ https://mobilepay.greenp.com/faq/i-have-a-new-phone-number-w... The culture of designing user-hostile apps is wild.

rglover 2y ago

> 1. Parking apps are worse than parking meters. Generally, yes, (it may have improved since I left but the Chicago one was a nightmare a few years back) however the best experience I've ever had was in Nashville (don't recall the company name). I signed up via the web (no app) and then the parking lot has cameras/sensors that detect my plate. Any parking lot owned by that company is now accessible to me in the city. I can just pull in, it detects me (notifying me my "session" has started), and then charges my card on file when I pull out (either in an hour, or even the next day). As with a lot of things, there are often examples of well-executed solutions at the fringes, they're just not deployed at a large enough scale to cancel out the other negative examples. Software can improve a lot, but it's down to the team/individuals involved to care enough to do it right (and not be distracted by other incentives).

eep_social 2y ago
Sounds fantastic. Literally not an app. Bring back websites.

marssaxman 2y ago

In general, I agree with your observation, but in terms of Duolingo it does not matter whether language classes would have been better, because I was never going to sign up for them. Letting myself get hooked on another daily word game was a commitment I could actually make, and after plugging away at it with steadily increasing enthusiasm for a little over a year now, I've gained a significant degree of fluency I would not otherwise have. Thus I think that Duolingo offers a genuinely valuable service, not directly comparable to language classes.

maeil 2y ago

>1. Parking apps are worse than parking meters. The customers for these apps are the parking lot operators and they love the apps. > 2. Tinder is worse than IRL speed dating. It is now, it definitely wasn't when it first came out. Prime example of enshittification, but not an example of what you're conveying. > 3. Duolingo is worse than language classes. This one I feel has the most merit, but still not a lot. What % of Duolingo users would've actually taken classes were it not for these apps? Also, some people don't learn well from classes (I'm one of them). Not that that makes Duolingo any better, but despite its pretenses it's squarely aimed at extremely shallow, casual, surface-level learning that might be useful on a holiday. And people don't take classes for that. > 4. Airline apps that are worse than just printing a boarding pass. In what way? Admittedly I've only used the apps of 2 airlines, but they worked fine.

Neonlicht 2y ago

I recently had to buy a printer because some shitty company didn't accept my smartphone screen. It was a lot less convenient let me tell you.

201984 2y ago

Re no. 1, what are you supposed to do in those cities if you don't have a smartphone? Just get a ticket? Seems heavily discriminatory against the poor.

xxr 2y ago

A few months ago, I had to use street parking in Long Beach, California. They no longer had individual meters along this particular street, but rather one parking sticker machine. The parking sticker machine was broken, so I had to download the advertised parking payment app which was not one of the parking apps I already had on my phone. Finally, I had to pay an additional “convenience” fee on top to use this app that I wouldn’t have needed to pay using physical payment infrastructure. So everyone wins here, except us: the app company gets to make a killing on compulsory payment processing, and City of Long Beach gets to continue to pull in parking revenue without worrying about whether their payment machines still work—a broken machine is not an excuse because you can still pay with the app because everyone has a smartphone with an up-to-date OS and functioning cell service with appropriate bandwidth, right? I’m sure I could have complained to the city and gotten my +/-dollar back, but I didn’t have time just to do so for the principle of the thing.

kelnos 2y ago
Ugh, that's gross. And I bet if you hadn't paid, gotten a ticket, and then defended yourself by saying the machine was broken, they would have still fined you because the app was available. It should be illegal to have that sort of setup... if the lowest-common-denominator form of payment is broken, then it should be free.

gs17 2y ago

> Parking apps are worse than parking meters. I had a frustrating experience with this. We were staying in a small town and the casino had a ferry to cross the river, which would save 20 minutes driving and be kind of neat. I'm guessing they had issues with the staff collecting payments, so they had switched to a parking app to pay for it. You pay for the ferry as a "parking lot" and it should all work fine. Signs at the road to it say to pay before proceeding, so I do. After driving all the way up, it turns out the ferry wasn't running (they neglected to close the gate at the start of the road). The parking app was tied into a pair of license plate readers on the boat, but since I couldn't drive past the "exit", they never considered my "parking" to end and it racked up a charge over two days. Of course, the "parking" starts without my car being detected going on to the boat. Fortunately, I got a refund, but it required jumping through a bunch of hoops. If we paid the way it used to be done this wouldn't be possible at all! >Airline apps that are worse than just printing a boarding pass. Delta's app is pretty good. I really like the peace of mind from being able to see where my bags are, including when they get put on the conveyor.

genewitch 2y ago
You know what all these stories kind of sound like me? When some new technology comes out and you see somebody and they're like, one of the first people to buy it and they're like, oh, check this out. And then they try to show you something, but it doesn't work? So if the parking thing is broken and I don't have my phone with me I can't go to the doctor today? Cool. If a meter was broken I could just go to another spot with a working meter. In Laguna beach they had $1 coin machines to get around the "ten quarters" thing, and this was 20 years ago!

dehrmann 2y ago

> 4. Airline apps that are worse than just printing a boarding pass. Whenever I fly business class for an international trip, I always check in at the counter. It's just as fast, but getting that boarding pass printing on cardstock and tucked into the photo page of my passport feels so quaint and charming.

kelnos 2y ago
> I always check in at the counter. It's just as fast Having waited in several check-in counter lines because the airline's app insists that a human needs to check my travel documents before giving me a boarding pass, no, it is so not just as fast. Even for business class. Even if there is no line, I can tap through a mobile app check-in flow (in the comfort of my own home!) faster than a check-in agent will usually verify my identity and print a boarding pass. Regardless, I'd rather not add that kind of variability into the airport process, and have to pad my arrival time even more. > getting that boarding pass printing on cardstock and tucked into the photo page of my passport feels so quaint and charming. This made me smile :)

mixmastamyk 2y ago

Yes, in the digital world these folks feel like they can strongarm you, in a way they would never have the gall to do in person. By demanding full information and customer-hostile rules. Sorry, we don't "support" anything else at this time!

aprilthird2021 2y ago

But all of those situations require human labor or oversight which is extremely expensive in the developed world. So in the sense that they allow people to access these things for cheaper they are better. And Tinder, Duolingo, etc. are at least cheaper. The other two the cost savings is gained by the government or the airline

dwedge 2y ago

Printing a boarding pass for the return trip when you can only check in 36 hours before departure is a lot trickier than printing at home. I'd prefer to print but this is one of the things that is simpler. The only annoying part is when the app gets battery killed with terrible reception in the airport and then takes 2 minutes to show you the boarding pass it already downloaded.

JustExAWS 2y ago
That’s why you put your boarding pass in your phone’s wallet
- dwedge 2y ago
  I don't use my phone wallet, but I suppose that is the purpose of it.
tsm 2y ago
Time was you could check in online and get the ticket counter agent to print your boarding pass for you

fsckboy 2y ago

>2. Tinder is worse than IRL speed dating. women, and a small pool of men, use Tinder to efficiently find hookups. IRL speed dating is actually a much bigger pain in the ass for that purpose. it's "uber for nookie"

mihaaly 2y ago

I believe they alwasy want and do change or revolution, or the most notorius ones disrupt life. No improvement - displacement vector towards the positive half space of life quality - is implied, except for those selling it.

cblum 2y ago

> Parking apps are worse than parking meters. I generally agree, but I’ve had a great experience with one of those. I just wish they all did the same streamlined thing this one particular app I used did. The QR code I had to scan actually ran an App Clip instead of taking me to a website. Everything was done in one screen: enter plate, parking stall number, hours. My physical interaction with it was just scrolling a little and hitting a button. Done. Wonderful. Most parking solitions are a shitshow though. Multiple screens (seriously, why?!), having to create an account, not handling payment via Apple Pay so I have to enter my credit card manually. Having to enter the parking location manually (how come it’s not a parameter in the QR code URL?). I’d really like to know what happens at the companies that develop those. It’s borderline criminal how bad they are.

rramadass 2y ago

You have hit the nail right on the head. I had come to this conclusion long ago i.e. computers/software are now majorly being oriented towards purely money-making (for certain vested interests) rather than doing any good for people/society or the world in general. The original idealism is long gone.

kelnos 2y ago

> Parking apps are worse than parking meters. Ehhhhh. In the case where it's a one-off, yes, because I'm not going to install an app and give it my payment details if I only expect to rarely park in a particular place. But, for example, in downtown Truckee, California, I always use the parking app, especially in the winter, so I don't have to futz with a machine out in the cold while my fingers are freezing. I pay from inside the warmth of my car, or inside the building I'm going to. Even in the summer, it's nice to be able to pay while I'm walking to my destination, rather than stand there staring at a machine, waiting for it to charge my credit card. It's also great to be able to "feed the meter" from my table at the restaurant if end up there longer than I expected, and the time has run out. > Airline apps that are worse than just printing a boarding pass. To each their own, I guess. In general I prefer not to waste paper for one-time use things, and when I'm traveling I already have my phone, and not having to keep track of more things is a plus. I do worry about situations where I could lose or break my phone (though I could lose a printed boarding pass too) or its battery runs out, but if that happens I can still go to the check-in counter or a kiosk and get a boarding pass printed, so I'm really no worse off than if I didn't have the mobile app in the first place.

seabombs 2y ago

Though there are exceptions (even amongst your examples IMO), of the good-fast-cheap triangle I feel the majority choose fast and cheap.

Minor49er 2y ago

I paid for a parking space in Cambridge, MA once and got fined by a meter maid. The department didn't answer any communications I placed about it. I learned my lesson to always carry cash and never trust the app

Izkata 2y ago

> 2. Tinder is worse than IRL speed dating. I don't know about Tinder specifically, but from what I've heard apps seem to be where most people meet nowadays - you'll find normal people mixed in with the weirdos. Meanwhile real-life speed dating is where the really desperate people go and is mostly weirdos.

sobakeitso 2y ago

Lots of issues with your claims. 1. Parking Kitty is much much easier than fussing with grafitti-ed, vandalized, unserviced parking machines. 2. Speak for yourself, Tinder is a great rebound app; vastly more productive than the limited pools at speed dating (which was big in like, 1998?) 3. True. But I don't have time for language classes. Anecdote but Duolingo brought my French language skills back to life, but probably because I already had them. 4. Do you travel much? Apps are far, far superior to any mechanism. Let's say your flight is cancelled due to weather. You can (a) call the 800 number and wait in a phone queue, (b) go to the desk and wait in a physical queue, which is challenging if you are in a country that is not your native language, or (c) log into the app to make changes instead of waiting for a person. Have you ever wanted to change your seat, or upgrade? You have the same three choices. Yeah, apps are hands-down light-years ahead of alternatives when you travel frequently.

tremon 2y ago

1. Parking apps are worse than parking meters. Here in NL, parking apps show predictions of available parking spaces and some even allow reservation: you book a timeslot and enter your license plate, and on arrival the gates open automatically when it recognizes your license plate. No more fiddling with tickets, no queueing at the payment console. For on-street parking, the apps usually allow two ways of parking registration: either you enter the location where you're parked (via manual lookup or phone GPS location), or you scan a QR code displayed on road signs. I'd call this one a solid win. 4. Airline apps that are worse than just printing a boarding pass. The train service here has this reminder in various locations: "If you use your phone to store/buy your ticket, you are responsible for keeping it charged. If your phone drains empty, you don't have a valid ticket and will be fined." I wouldn't want to be in the situation where I need to transfer after a long-haul flight and find my phone empty. For me, paper always beats battery for longevity of important documents.