6 ms·

I don't understand why not just target abusive accounts. Maybe the speed running community will have to find a new home.

by mbasho 2y ago

bhickey 2y ago
I don't think this will impact speedrunning much: > This won’t apply to Past Broadcasts (VODs) or clips.
- cbhl 2y ago
  On Twitch, Past Broadcasts (VODs) are already deleted after 60 days. If you see a video-on-demand that is older than that, then that is an “upload” and not a “VOD” and thus is in-scope.
  - bhickey 2y ago
    Thanks for the clarification!
- bakugo 2y ago
  Twitch only stores Past Broadcasts for 2 months before they're automatically deleted. If you want to keep them past the 2 months, you have to convert them into Highlights, which are affected. So yes, this will absolutely affect the speedrunning community, and anyone else who has been using this method to archive old streams.
- mrkramer 2y ago
  Speedrunners are worried: https://bsky.app/profile/summoningsalt.bsky.social/post/3liklhvzqyc2h https://bsky.app/profile/summoningsalt.bsky.social/post/3lik...
jsheard 2y ago
Isn't that exactly what they're doing? You have to draw the line for abuse somewhere, and they've drawn it at 100 hours.
- ctrl-j 2y ago
  There are playthroughs of single games that are more than 100 hours. Even if you're only playing "short" games, you're looking at 6-10 hours, which means you only give your audience a library of 10-15 vods? Average games are 20-40, so 5? Vod viewing on twitch is also a pain, ads every 10 minutes, buggy playback, and vods don't play in order. What's going to happen is anyone currently storing their playthroughs on twitch is now going to export to youtube. So I guess they want youtube to get the ad rev.
  - _cenw 2y ago
    It'll just make also streaming to YouTube (or other services) simultaneously more attractive. Apparently Twitch has exclusivity agreements with some people, but it's already pretty common to do this.
  - hibikir 2y ago
    And it might make sense, if the way youtube stores the video is more efficient. Ultimately live streaming/simulcasting are different that cold video. See how Netflix, having no problems doing efficient movie serving, doesn't do quite so great at providing a good experience in live events. And I'd bet that the storage model for youtube and Netflix is already quite different, as the number of total videos, and the distribution of who watches what, when and where, is quite different.
    - rincebrain 2y ago
      It doesn't even have to be more efficient, necessarily, just valuable enough to be more worthwhile. In this case, they seem to be saying long-form archives aren't helping their business and are very expensive. Of course, since that also de facto means people start pointing to their YouTube pages as their content archives, that means they think they have such a better platform for live content that they can survive people doing the calculus of "well, if I have to host my old content on YT anyway, why am I using Twitch if I'm just going to upload to YT after..." Whether that's true or not, we'll see. (One might argue this is a given comparing the number of people I know who stream on Twitch versus YT, but Twitch is also the place that thought people wanted them to integrate a game store in their desktop app, and appears to have the attention span of a squirrel in long-term platform initiatives, so...we'll see.) (I work for Google, I've never worked on anything related to YouTube, opinions my own.)
philipov 2y ago
The big problem with this move is that it doesn't give people enough time to migrate, and they can't make new highlights while they struggle to download upwards of 3000 hours (in the multiple terabytes) of old video, at the same time as hundreds or thousands of other partners doing the same thing. This affects far more people at a much higher scale than Twitch will admit, and the deadline given isn't enough for these data transfers to complete.
- anon7000 2y ago
  It literally says it doesn’t apply to past streams?
bob1029 2y ago
> the speed running community I was under the impression that the principal objective of speed running was to get things done quickly. You should be able to fit a lot of valuable information within the quota if you are any good at it.
- Capricorn2481 2y ago
  Not really. That's like saying a wrestler is only in the match for a few minutes so why do they need all of that training. Speedrunners are often playing the game or parts of the game hundreds of times. And they're usually performing techniques that take lots of precision and therefore lots of practice. So they stream it all, documenting their attempts and trying new strategies in front of a live audience. They produce so much comment that there are YouTube channels that make documentaries about different speedrunners.
- emacsen 2y ago
  This comes from a misunderstanding of what speedrunning is. It's not merely doing something quickly; it's more akin to a sport. The objective of speedrunning is to perform something you would do in a game in a record time, or it's now been somewhat expanded to sometimes include or mean some extraordinary feat in a game that may not be directly related to speed. A speedrun of a game might mean to complete a game that would normally take months in (for example) "only 10 hours", in which case the speedrunner needs to be live for those ten hours. A recording is not an acceptable substitute due to issues of cheating[1]. Even if a speedrun is only two hours, a speedrunner may need to play the same game four, five, or twelve times in order to achieve their objective. They could be playing for an hour and fifty minutes only to have the entire run ruined by a mistake, or even just a random game event. [1] It's still possible to cheat live, but it's more complicated, more challenging, and there's a greater likelihood of being caught.
  - bob1029 2y ago
    > Even if a speedrun is only two hours, a speedrunner may need to play the same game four, five, or twelve times in order to achieve their objective. They could be playing for an hour and fifty minutes only to have the entire run ruined by a mistake, or even just a random game event. I am still not following why Twitch needs to maintain live copies of all the failed runs. Once you hit the objective, make that video the highlight or whatever to be persisted indefinitely. Why would anyone care about watching several hours of something when they know ahead of time it's not going to be representative of a successful outcome? Iteration #17 out of hundreds can't possibly be valuable enough to justify the storage cost in even the most charitable of cases. It seems to me that most of speed running could be done completely offline without involving the internet and video capture technology (i.e., practicing a musical instrument).
genewitch 2y ago
tomorrow evening around 5AM UTC i will try to have a "Show HN: Seamlessly move your VOD from twitch to youtube (or...)" there is a youtube-uploader (or was) that i've used in the past for unattended uploads. yt-dlp <twitch vod uri> | youtube-upload I'm gunna charge $1000 a month with no free tier. edit: oh well https://github.com/Zibbp/ganymede https://github.com/Zibbp/ganymede

I don't understand why not just target abusive accounts. Maybe the speed running community will have to find a new home.

by mbasho 2y ago

I don't understand why not just target abusive accounts. Maybe the speed running community will have to find a new home.

bhickey 2y ago

I don't think this will impact speedrunning much: > This won’t apply to Past Broadcasts (VODs) or clips.

cbhl 2y ago
On Twitch, Past Broadcasts (VODs) are already deleted after 60 days. If you see a video-on-demand that is older than that, then that is an “upload” and not a “VOD” and thus is in-scope.
- bhickey 2y ago
  Thanks for the clarification!
bakugo 2y ago
Twitch only stores Past Broadcasts for 2 months before they're automatically deleted. If you want to keep them past the 2 months, you have to convert them into Highlights, which are affected. So yes, this will absolutely affect the speedrunning community, and anyone else who has been using this method to archive old streams.
mrkramer 2y ago
Speedrunners are worried: https://bsky.app/profile/summoningsalt.bsky.social/post/3liklhvzqyc2h https://bsky.app/profile/summoningsalt.bsky.social/post/3lik...

jsheard 2y ago

Isn't that exactly what they're doing? You have to draw the line for abuse somewhere, and they've drawn it at 100 hours.

ctrl-j 2y ago
There are playthroughs of single games that are more than 100 hours. Even if you're only playing "short" games, you're looking at 6-10 hours, which means you only give your audience a library of 10-15 vods? Average games are 20-40, so 5? Vod viewing on twitch is also a pain, ads every 10 minutes, buggy playback, and vods don't play in order. What's going to happen is anyone currently storing their playthroughs on twitch is now going to export to youtube. So I guess they want youtube to get the ad rev.
- _cenw 2y ago
  It'll just make also streaming to YouTube (or other services) simultaneously more attractive. Apparently Twitch has exclusivity agreements with some people, but it's already pretty common to do this.
- hibikir 2y ago
  And it might make sense, if the way youtube stores the video is more efficient. Ultimately live streaming/simulcasting are different that cold video. See how Netflix, having no problems doing efficient movie serving, doesn't do quite so great at providing a good experience in live events. And I'd bet that the storage model for youtube and Netflix is already quite different, as the number of total videos, and the distribution of who watches what, when and where, is quite different.
  - rincebrain 2y ago
    It doesn't even have to be more efficient, necessarily, just valuable enough to be more worthwhile. In this case, they seem to be saying long-form archives aren't helping their business and are very expensive. Of course, since that also de facto means people start pointing to their YouTube pages as their content archives, that means they think they have such a better platform for live content that they can survive people doing the calculus of "well, if I have to host my old content on YT anyway, why am I using Twitch if I'm just going to upload to YT after..." Whether that's true or not, we'll see. (One might argue this is a given comparing the number of people I know who stream on Twitch versus YT, but Twitch is also the place that thought people wanted them to integrate a game store in their desktop app, and appears to have the attention span of a squirrel in long-term platform initiatives, so...we'll see.) (I work for Google, I've never worked on anything related to YouTube, opinions my own.)

philipov 2y ago

The big problem with this move is that it doesn't give people enough time to migrate, and they can't make new highlights while they struggle to download upwards of 3000 hours (in the multiple terabytes) of old video, at the same time as hundreds or thousands of other partners doing the same thing. This affects far more people at a much higher scale than Twitch will admit, and the deadline given isn't enough for these data transfers to complete.

anon7000 2y ago
It literally says it doesn’t apply to past streams?

bob1029 2y ago

> the speed running community I was under the impression that the principal objective of speed running was to get things done quickly. You should be able to fit a lot of valuable information within the quota if you are any good at it.

Capricorn2481 2y ago
Not really. That's like saying a wrestler is only in the match for a few minutes so why do they need all of that training. Speedrunners are often playing the game or parts of the game hundreds of times. And they're usually performing techniques that take lots of precision and therefore lots of practice. So they stream it all, documenting their attempts and trying new strategies in front of a live audience. They produce so much comment that there are YouTube channels that make documentaries about different speedrunners.
emacsen 2y ago
This comes from a misunderstanding of what speedrunning is. It's not merely doing something quickly; it's more akin to a sport. The objective of speedrunning is to perform something you would do in a game in a record time, or it's now been somewhat expanded to sometimes include or mean some extraordinary feat in a game that may not be directly related to speed. A speedrun of a game might mean to complete a game that would normally take months in (for example) "only 10 hours", in which case the speedrunner needs to be live for those ten hours. A recording is not an acceptable substitute due to issues of cheating[1]. Even if a speedrun is only two hours, a speedrunner may need to play the same game four, five, or twelve times in order to achieve their objective. They could be playing for an hour and fifty minutes only to have the entire run ruined by a mistake, or even just a random game event. [1] It's still possible to cheat live, but it's more complicated, more challenging, and there's a greater likelihood of being caught.
- bob1029 2y ago
  > Even if a speedrun is only two hours, a speedrunner may need to play the same game four, five, or twelve times in order to achieve their objective. They could be playing for an hour and fifty minutes only to have the entire run ruined by a mistake, or even just a random game event. I am still not following why Twitch needs to maintain live copies of all the failed runs. Once you hit the objective, make that video the highlight or whatever to be persisted indefinitely. Why would anyone care about watching several hours of something when they know ahead of time it's not going to be representative of a successful outcome? Iteration #17 out of hundreds can't possibly be valuable enough to justify the storage cost in even the most charitable of cases. It seems to me that most of speed running could be done completely offline without involving the internet and video capture technology (i.e., practicing a musical instrument).

genewitch 2y ago

tomorrow evening around 5AM UTC i will try to have a "Show HN: Seamlessly move your VOD from twitch to youtube (or...)" there is a youtube-uploader (or was) that i've used in the past for unattended uploads. yt-dlp <twitch vod uri> | youtube-upload I'm gunna charge $1000 a month with no free tier. edit: oh well https://github.com/Zibbp/ganymede https://github.com/Zibbp/ganymede