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It seems this will be a way for Ukraine to pay for its defense, since Europe is not willing to cover the cost and the US is no longer willing to do it either. I

It seems this will be a way for Ukraine to pay for its defense, since Europe is not willing to cover the cost and the US is no longer willing to do it either. It also puts countries that live under the US umbrella in a position to start thinking about their own security. For Ukraine this seems like a win, allowing them to defend themselves at the cost of things underground that they haven't cared to touch, all while receiving protection from the US.

ano-ther 2y ago
The USA and Europe are on par when it comes to military aid to Ukraine, both with around 62bn EUR. The US spent 45bn EUR on other aid, while Europe spent 70bn. See the charts on page 4 and 5 here: https://www.ifw-kiel.de/fileadmin/Dateiverwaltung/Subject_Dossiers_Topics/Ukraine/Ukraine_Support_Tracker/3rd_Aniv_Report.pdf https://www.ifw-kiel.de/fileadmin/Dateiverwaltung/Subject_Do... Demanding 500bn in return seems quite a bit. https://www.politico.eu/article/trump-demands-500b-in-rare-earths-from-ukraine-for-support/ https://www.politico.eu/article/trump-demands-500b-in-rare-e...
- thesimp 2y ago
  Please the small but significant typo: it is B instead of M for the numbers.
  - ano-ther 2y ago
    yes -- corrected -- thanks
- yostrovs 2y ago
  I didn't mention this topic. The issue is that neither Europe nor US are currently willing to allocate the resources necessary for Ukraine to win. Whatever, whoever, gave in the past is irrelevant now.
  - 486sx33 2y ago
    No it’s not irrelevant it’s still owed.
    - wtfwhateven 2y ago
      Source?
- an_guy 2y ago
  EU funds are contributed by more than 27 countries, none of whose individual contribution comes close to what US has contributed. According to official gov website of EU and US * EU has allocated $145b + $50b[1] * US has allocated $174b [2] $500b is too much but considering how Ukraine has been losing valuable resources to Russia, it's only fair to ask for some security. According to your article, this was the "Victory Plan" all along and Zelensky agreed to it. [1] https://www.ukraineoversight.gov/Funding/ https://www.ukraineoversight.gov/Funding/ [2] https://www.eeas.europa.eu/delegations/united-states-america/eu-assistance-ukraine-us-dollars_en https://www.eeas.europa.eu/delegations/united-states-america...
  - zwirbl 2y ago
    And the US is like more than 50 states. Now what?
    - an_guy 2y ago
      Germany has 16 states France has 27 states Poland has 16 states Bulgaria has 28 states Italy has 20 states so on... Shall we start counting state wise?
      - monkeyfun 2y ago
        And the US has over 3000 counties, many of which are comparable in size and population to those states; compare apples to apples
John23832 2y ago
The money the US sent to Ukraine in relation to its defense is then in turn spent with US military companies. It's a wash deal. But by sending said money, the US is extending soft (semi-hard) power in the region. This advances US interests. By essentially trying to blackmail Ukraine however, you make it clear to all other parties that the US is not an entity that can work in good faith. Additionally, by leveraging US private sector tech (Starlink), you're telling others not to integrate US technology if at all possible, hurting the market for US business. We're essentially doing what we accused Hwuawei of doing. The Trump administration seems to be of the belief that they don't have work with anyone, but that others should work for them. Nothing about this is in the US's best interest. This is foreign policy folly.
nobankai 2y ago
A huge amount of American aid sent to Ukraine isn't worth anything. Some of it is Vietnam-era surplus that hadn't been trashed yet. Some of it is Cold War era surplus that would have been trashed too if not donated. As an American taxpayer, I don't feel a need to squeeze Ukraine over paying for American trash. Maybe they should pay list price for the new toys like the Patriot, but not our reserve equipment. That's plain extortion.
croes 2y ago
Sounds like Mafia‘s protection deals.

ano-ther 2y ago

The USA and Europe are on par when it comes to military aid to Ukraine, both with around 62bn EUR. The US spent 45bn EUR on other aid, while Europe spent 70bn. See the charts on page 4 and 5 here: https://www.ifw-kiel.de/fileadmin/Dateiverwaltung/Subject_Dossiers_Topics/Ukraine/Ukraine_Support_Tracker/3rd_Aniv_Report.pdf https://www.ifw-kiel.de/fileadmin/Dateiverwaltung/Subject_Do... Demanding 500bn in return seems quite a bit. https://www.politico.eu/article/trump-demands-500b-in-rare-earths-from-ukraine-for-support/ https://www.politico.eu/article/trump-demands-500b-in-rare-e...

thesimp 2y ago
Please the small but significant typo: it is B instead of M for the numbers.
- ano-ther 2y ago
  yes -- corrected -- thanks
yostrovs 2y ago
I didn't mention this topic. The issue is that neither Europe nor US are currently willing to allocate the resources necessary for Ukraine to win. Whatever, whoever, gave in the past is irrelevant now.
- 486sx33 2y ago
  No it’s not irrelevant it’s still owed.
  - wtfwhateven 2y ago
    Source?
an_guy 2y ago
EU funds are contributed by more than 27 countries, none of whose individual contribution comes close to what US has contributed. According to official gov website of EU and US * EU has allocated $145b + $50b[1] * US has allocated $174b [2] $500b is too much but considering how Ukraine has been losing valuable resources to Russia, it's only fair to ask for some security. According to your article, this was the "Victory Plan" all along and Zelensky agreed to it. [1] https://www.ukraineoversight.gov/Funding/ https://www.ukraineoversight.gov/Funding/ [2] https://www.eeas.europa.eu/delegations/united-states-america/eu-assistance-ukraine-us-dollars_en https://www.eeas.europa.eu/delegations/united-states-america...
- zwirbl 2y ago
  And the US is like more than 50 states. Now what?
  - an_guy 2y ago
    Germany has 16 states France has 27 states Poland has 16 states Bulgaria has 28 states Italy has 20 states so on... Shall we start counting state wise?
    - monkeyfun 2y ago
      And the US has over 3000 counties, many of which are comparable in size and population to those states; compare apples to apples

John23832 2y ago

The money the US sent to Ukraine in relation to its defense is then in turn spent with US military companies. It's a wash deal. But by sending said money, the US is extending soft (semi-hard) power in the region. This advances US interests. By essentially trying to blackmail Ukraine however, you make it clear to all other parties that the US is not an entity that can work in good faith. Additionally, by leveraging US private sector tech (Starlink), you're telling others not to integrate US technology if at all possible, hurting the market for US business. We're essentially doing what we accused Hwuawei of doing. The Trump administration seems to be of the belief that they don't have work with anyone, but that others should work for them. Nothing about this is in the US's best interest. This is foreign policy folly.

nobankai 2y ago

A huge amount of American aid sent to Ukraine isn't worth anything. Some of it is Vietnam-era surplus that hadn't been trashed yet. Some of it is Cold War era surplus that would have been trashed too if not donated. As an American taxpayer, I don't feel a need to squeeze Ukraine over paying for American trash. Maybe they should pay list price for the new toys like the Patriot, but not our reserve equipment. That's plain extortion.

croes 2y ago

Sounds like Mafia‘s protection deals.