7 ms·

The Ren'Py Visual Novel Engine

225 points by Tomte 2y ago

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
riffraff 2y ago
Curious, I discovered this today as I played a visual novel built with it: Doki Doki literature club (free on steam). Interesting read/play, but not for everyone.
- autoexec 2y ago
  you can download it without steam for free (or donate if you like) at https://ddlc.moe/ https://ddlc.moe/
- teddyh 2y ago
  Review by “Yahtzee” Croshaw: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krq6-1ht_kk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krq6-1ht_kk>
- Frotag 2y ago
  Honestly I wouldn't recommend DDLC to someone new to VNs. It's hilarious but it parodies the dating sim genre by amping up the defining tropes to 11 before it then (minor spoiler, see footnote [2]). So you kind of need familiarity with the genre to understand some of the jokes. One of the more famous dating sims is probably Katawa Shoujo which is also free under a CC license. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katawa_Shoujo https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katawa_Shoujo . . . . [2] does a 180 and makes fun of the plot holes
  - riffraff 2y ago
    Ah Interesting, I have only played one or two dating sims many years ago, what are some tropes which are specific to dating sims rather than those also found in romance-based anime/manga? I guess "bad endings" and "save then go back" would be specific and played with in DDLC, but I didn't pick up anything else.
    - Frotag 2y ago
      (spoilers ahead) > So you kind of need familiarity with the genre to understand some of the jokes. >> what are some tropes which are specific to dating sims rather than those also found in romance-based anime/manga? It's been a while since I've read DDLC but familiarity was probably too strong a word. Having expectations about how the story should develop and then having those subverted is a good chunk of the fun [1]. So skimming at least one dating sim vn is probably enough context. And anime / manga also cover most of that context / japan-isms that DDLC mocks (eg the school setting, the childhood friend / council prez / spoiled imouto archetypes). To your question though, the VN-specific jokes are mostly about the route system and world building. I guess these still fall under the umbrella of "bad endings" and "save then go back" but imo it's a huge umbrella that's worth exploring. So like you mentioned, DDLC toys a lot with the concept of multiple routes / save files. In most VNs each route starts the same story before branching. You don't normally expect this "common route" to change between tries but in DDLC it does in multiple ways. But more uniquely, DDLC also questions why these romantic endings exist in the first place and arrives at the conclusion that the romantic interests are psychotically obsessed... by the design of some god [2]. This also pokes at how some VNs just rewrite the world between routes to avoid distractions from the chosen love interest, as in big events that are inevitable in one route just don't happen in others. I also thought the choice system (the poems) in itself was a fun joke. Like most VNs have screens that let you vote on which route to read, one choice per route. After N screens you get placed on the route you picked most. DDLC exaggerates this by giving you 100s of screens each with multiple choices per love interest. Kind of like "Are you really really sure? Is this your final answer?" Speaking of DDLC, I should really reread Totono [3]. It's another VN-parody but less gimmicky and a bit more serious / emotional. [1] https://github.com/Bronya-Rand/DDLCModTemplate2.0/blob/v1.1.2/original_story_scripts/script-ch30.rpy#L1421-L1432 https://github.com/Bronya-Rand/DDLCModTemplate2.0/blob/v1.1.... [2] https://github.com/Bronya-Rand/DDLCModTemplate2.0/blob/69aa28b6ea5ceb750d6665890b694f733d1f170e/original_story_scripts/script-ch30.rpy#L246-L250 https://github.com/Bronya-Rand/DDLCModTemplate2.0/blob/69aa2... https://github.com/Bronya-Rand/DDLCModTemplate2.0/blob/v1.1.2/original_story_scripts/script-ch30.rpy#L273-L280 https://github.com/Bronya-Rand/DDLCModTemplate2.0/blob/v1.1.... [3] https://store.steampowered.com/app/1293820/YOU_and_ME_and_HER_A_Love_Story/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/1293820/YOU_and_ME_and_HE...
- debugnik 2y ago
  Interestingly, DDLC Plus, the paid rerelease with extra content, was rebuilt in Unity, presumably to support consoles.
- snvzz 2y ago
  vndb[0] is a non-profit VN database, and a good starting point to find reputable VNs in English (original or translated) to play. 0. https://vndb.org/ https://vndb.org/
TheDong 2y ago
This was used to make 'Analogue: A Hate Story', which in my opinion was an interesting visual novel to read, with some more unusual interactive elements as well. It feels to me like 'Hate Story' and its sequel ('Hate Plus') really pushed the bounds of what a visual novel engine can easily do.
- kibwen 2y ago
  It's an extremely popular engine for visual novels, to the point where it's fairly safe to assume any given VN is made using Ren'Py. For example, last year's Slay The Princess.
  - TheDong 2y ago
    I don't know if that's a given. Needy Streamer Overload was the big visual novel of 2024 I think, which was Unity. The most popular modern-ish visual novels I know of, like Fate Grand Order, Dangenronpa, and Ace Attorney, aren't Ren'py. I feel like Ren'py is in the minority for modern popular visual novels, and it's definitely in the minority if you include re-releases of older visual novels. I'd expect it to be in the vast majority for independent visual novels.
optionalsquid 2y ago
As somebody who has read a large number of visual novels (VNs), I consider Ren'py one of the better engines as a consumer: - It has all the basic featured you'd expect, ranging from proper backlogs, to key bindings, and much more. You'd be shocked how many VN developers think that they can just pop out an VN engine themselves, and end up producing something that lacks even basic features. - It is performant. You'd be surprised how poorly many VN engines run really poorly. Fast-forwarding past already-read text is often capped at a surprisingly slow rate, with your CPU pegged at 100%, due to how inefficient many engines are - It is easily moddable, as you just need to plop a (pseudo-)python script into the game folder, so you can easily tweak or turn off annoying bits of UI A number of localization companies have also ported (typically older) Japanese titles to Ren'py, instead of having to struggle with poor to non-existent support for non-Japanese systems in the original engine, as well as extremely expensive engine licenses, and just straight up poorly written bespoke engines. Examples of companies having done this includes JAST USA, FAKKU, MangaGamer, and (IIRC) Sekai Project/Denpasoft. In other words, the heavy hitters of VN localization. The other main contender for best VN engine (in my mind) is the KiriKiri engine, which I believe is also open source, but which lacks the large, English-speaking community that Ren'py has built. Despite that, Ren'py does have a bit of a poor reputation in the older VN reading community, more specifically among readers who mainly read localized, Japanese VNs, due to its association with low-budget, originally English visual novels. Typically the same people have only heard of DDLC and Katawa Shoujo, when it comes to originally English visual novels
- jandrese 2y ago
  One thing Ren'Py does well that many other engines do poorly is forward compatibility of saves. When VNs are released in pieces over time it is important to make sure the saves carry forward. Nothing kills momentum like "you will need to start over from scratch after every update". As far as competitors go, the list is not very long. Sugarcube/Twine works ok, but tends to bog down as the projects grow large because it doesn't have a good way of breaking up the core logic across different files. The save system is also a bit of a problem since the in-browser saves tend to get lost in version updates. QSP is just a buggy confusing mess every time. People try to shoehorn RPGMaker into doing the job but it is just so clunky and slow. Custom engines, typically built in Unity, are almost always massive resource hogs and lacking in one or more of the basic features Ren'Py provides by default. Plus there is just the community aspect of it, with Ren'Py having so many developers there is a lot of institutional knowledge to be had. If you run into a problem you are probably not the first, someone else has probably solved it already.
jandrese 2y ago
They have a database of over 4,000 visual novels built with this engine, but that barely scratches the surface. If you know where to look there are many thousands more projects built on this engine.
- optionalsquid 2y ago
  The Visual Novel Database (VNDB) alone lists nearly 12,000 titles that have used Ren'py: (Warning: This site contains a lot of text and images that are not safe for work. And it records a lot of works that many people will probably find distressing) https://vndb.org/v?q=&ch=&f=N1802fwRen_7Py-741&s=26y https://vndb.org/v?q=&ch=&f=N1802fwRen_7Py-741&s=26y But as you say, that's barely scratching the surface. You can probably find many more on itch.io and in other communities, that nobody have bothered to add to VNDB
  - hiccuphippo 2y ago
    That's weird, I don't think those old TypeMoon and Key visual novels used Ren'py. Maybe Ren'py is able to read files made for other engines like NScript or KiriKiri and that's why they show in the search?
    - optionalsquid 2y ago
      Fan-ports of VNs to Ren'py are not uncommon, in part because Ren'py supports mobile devices. For example, https://vndb.org/r99153 https://vndb.org/r99153 But you can exclude those by only searching for official releases: https://vndb.org/v?q=&ch=&f=N1803fwRen_7Py-741Ng01&s=26y https://vndb.org/v?q=&ch=&f=N1803fwRen_7Py-741Ng01&s=26y
Frotag 2y ago
For context, visual novels are basically ~novella sized stories that come with visuals like static backgrounds + a few dozen renders per character. The character renders tend to be mostly the same, with small variations in facial expression, pose, maybe outfit. All that to say, you probably won't like VNs unless you like reading. Don't expect much gameplay / animation. That said, the more famous stories tend to have multiple endings determined by a handful of choices you get during the story. On occasion, some games go for sandbox-style gameplay where you roam the map to grind out currency to unlock visual novel scenes. In terms of genre I'd say at least half are dating sims, with the rest being some kind of adventure or mystery story. I'd also guess at least half are nsfw / r18. Renpy VNs tend to be made by indie devs from everywhere but Japan, which has a VN industry with in-house engines. Writing quality tends to be what you expect from indie authors / devs. That is, filled with tropes, tending towards the wish-fulfillment types. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, you'll be surprised what you'd be willing to overlook if the premise / plot seems interesting.
- jsheard 2y ago
  > For context, visual novels are basically ~novella sized stories Usually, but some of them are infamously ludicrously long. Like 2-3x War and Peaces long.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - Frotag 2y ago
    Got curious about the actual distribution so ran some queries on vndb [1]. Looks like the median renpy novel (with 100+ votes) takes 250min to complete with the ludicrously long ones [2] bringing the average up to 503min. engine vn count avg 25% 50% 75% Ren'Py 251 503 120 251 571 KiriKiri 187 813 241 522 1143 Unity 65 871 224 452 1109 [1] https://query.vndb.org/?sql=SELECT+%0D%0A++++r.engine%2C+%0D%0A++++COUNT%28*%29+%22count%22%2C%0D%0A++++ROUND%28AVG%28l.length%29%29+%22avg%22%2C%0D%0A++++ROUND%28PERCENTILE_CONT%280.25%29+WITHIN+GROUP%28ORDER+BY+l.length%29%29+%2225%25%22%2C%0D%0A++++ROUND%28PERCENTILE_CONT%280.50%29+WITHIN+GROUP%28ORDER+BY+l.length%29%29+%2250%25%22%2C%0D%0A++++ROUND%28PERCENTILE_CONT%280.75%29+WITHIN+GROUP%28ORDER+BY+l.length%29%29+%2275%25%22%0D%0A%0D%0A--check+only+one+release+per+vn%0D%0AFROM+%28%0D%0A++++SELECT+distinct+on+%28rl_vn.vid%29%0D%0A++++++++rl_vn.vid%2C+rl_vn.id%2C+r.engine%0D%0A++++FROM+releases_vn+rl_vn%0D%0A++++INNER+JOIN+releases+r%0D%0A++++ON+r.id+%3D+rl_vn.id%0D%0A%29+r%0D%0A%0D%0A--calc+length+of+each+vn%0D%0AINNER+JOIN+%28%0D%0A++++SELECT+vid%2C+AVG%28length%29+length%0D%0A++++FROM+vn_length_votes%0D%0A++++GROUP+BY+vid%0D%0A%29+l+ON+l.vid+%3D+r.vid%0D%0A%0D%0AINNER+JOIN+vn+ON+vn.id+%3D+r.vid%0D%0A%0D%0AWHERE+true%0D%0AAND+vn.c_votecount+%3E+100%0D%0A--AND+vn.title+NOT+LIKE+%27Fate%2Fstay+night%27%0D%0A%0D%0AGROUP+BY+r.engine%0D%0AORDER+BY+%22count%22+DESC%3B&tab=t https://query.vndb.org/?sql=SELECT+%0D%0A++++r.engine%2C+%0D... [2] https://query.vndb.org/?sql=SELECT%0D%0Avn.title%2C%0D%0AROUND%28l.length%29+length%2C%0D%0Ar.engine+%0D%0A%0D%0A--check+only+one+release+per+vn%0D%0AFROM+%28%0D%0A++++SELECT+distinct+on+%28rl_vn.vid%29%0D%0A++++++++rl_vn.vid%2C+rl_vn.id%2C+r.engine%0D%0A++++FROM+releases_vn+rl_vn%0D%0A++++INNER+JOIN+releases+r%0D%0A++++++++ON+r.id+%3D+rl_vn.id%0D%0A%29+r%0D%0A%0D%0A--calc+length+of+each+vn%0D%0AINNER+JOIN+%28%0D%0A++++SELECT+vid%2C+AVG%28length%29+length%0D%0A++++FROM+vn_length_votes%0D%0A++++GROUP+BY+vid%0D%0A%29+l+ON+l.vid+%3D+r.vid%0D%0A%0D%0AINNER+JOIN+vn+ON+vn.id+%3D+r.vid%0D%0A%0D%0AWHERE+TRUE+%0D%0AAND+vn.c_votecount+%3E+100%0D%0A--AND+r.engine+ILIKE+%27ren%25%27%0D%0A%0D%0AORDER+BY+length+DESC%3B%0D%0A&tab=t https://query.vndb.org/?sql=SELECT%0D%0Avn.title%2C%0D%0AROU... title length (min) engine HEAVEN BURNS RED 12580 CRIware Rance X -Kessen- 11085 AliceSoft System4.X Shoujo Settai 10418 Kamidori Alchemy Meister 8407 Seinarukana... 6858 Lessons in Love 6819 Ren'Py Sengoku † Koihime... 6744 CatSystem2 Higurashi no Naku Koro ni 6626
alt187 2y ago
I really wish they'd implement proper XDG stuff, because the engine is great and I love VNs but all I can think about is the ~/.renpy littering my home.
- bbkane 2y ago
  The battle for HOME was lost years ago unfortunately. Best to just accept defeat and enjoy the apps
lelandfe 2y ago
Some really cool stuff has been built with Ren'Py. A (fairly) recent example for me is Roadwarden, a 20hr long RPG.
- programd 2y ago
  I was wondering what it was built with as I was playing. Roadwarden is tripple-A storytelling and world building masquerading as a little indie title. I was very impressed by how much atmosphere it conveys with minimalistic presentation. That takes a lot of skill. Here it is on Steam, currently on sale for a criminally under priced $4.39 https://store.steampowered.com/app/1155970/Roadwarden/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/1155970/Roadwarden/
  - loufe 2y ago
    Agreed, Roadwarden is an absolute gem and has earned two full playthroughs from me. It's such a compelling experience for a text-based game, it feels especially so as I'm not old enough to have a nostalgic appreciation for text games.
AdamH12113 2y ago
If you're wondering what's up with the name, "Ren'Py" is a pun on the Japanese word "ren'ai" (恋愛), which means "romantic love".
- baobabKoodaa 2y ago
  And at the risk of stating the obvious, Py is for Python and Ren is for Render
  - TazeTSchnitzel 2y ago
    The “Ren” part is surely coincidence, it doesn't really make sense.
    - baobabKoodaa 2y ago
      "Render your visual novel with Python"?
      - TazeTSchnitzel 2y ago
        It's a game engine, not a rendering tool.
        baobabKoodaa 2y ago
        Hmmh, you're right: "Ren" doesn't stand for "Render" here.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
VectorLock 2y ago
If you look on SteamDB PyGame and Ren'Py are the 5th and 6th most used technologies, ahead of Godot. https://steamdb.info/tech/ https://steamdb.info/tech/ Some people point out this is mainly because of the erotic novel shovelware that is quite popular on Steam.
philipov 2y ago
I just picked up Stories from Sol: The Gun-Dog, which launched on steam this week, and was made with RenPy. It's going great so far. Some of the lore reminds me a lot of Martian Successor Nadesico. https://store.steampowered.com/app/2118420/Stories_from_Sol_The_GunDog/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/2118420/Stories_from_Sol_...
brianbest101 2y ago
The game engine that’s probably kickstarted more game dev careers than most. I remember when 4chan came together to produce the surprisingly good Katawa Shoujo with it. Wild times
nurettin 2y ago
I've always wondered if LLMs will slowly seep into this backyard. They are perfectly capable of creating the story (will probably be mid, barely interesting), the art (albeit easily recognized as AI slop) and the code (after some iterations) and with some tooling, even sign and deploy to websites all fully automated.
- cwiz 2y ago
  They might take it with storm and we see influx or high quality stories that can't be distinguished from those written by nips.
- unreal37 2y ago
  GenAI is becoming popular for image generation to add visuals to the novel.
- woctordho 2y ago
  VNs are interesting to AI developers because they're multimodal datasets with extensive text annotations. People are already working on this https://huggingface.co/datasets/Limour/b-corpus https://huggingface.co/datasets/Limour/b-corpus
RototRobot 2y ago
I've made two 'games' with ren'py in the past, and it's really fun engine to work in and quite an amazing engine as it can be used for the most basic straight forward game with little programming experience but also scales up to some pretty complex stuff if you have the means.
ge96 2y ago
Hehe I've come across this tech from xxx games Edit: I don't have the patience for these games but yeah I've seen the name before
Animats 2y ago
It's a player, like Flash. What does it do that Flash didn't?
- woctordho 2y ago
  It has a DSL specified for writing VNs
woctordho 2y ago
If you prefer JS to Python, there's also WebGAL https://github.com/OpenWebGAL/WebGAL https://github.com/OpenWebGAL/WebGAL
- TazeTSchnitzel 2y ago
  Trying the demo of this on my phone, there are already several kinds of jank, and one of the lines got cut off so I couldn't read it. I think that's a bad sign.
xrd 2y ago
My 8 year old daughter loves graphic novels. And she's a budding writer. I got really excited to show her some of the links posted here. Then I dug a little deeper and saw that a lot of it is very sexualized. I'm not opposed to that for adults but it isn't something I want my daughter exposed to. Anyone have suggestions for safe spaces for kids? I really love the idea of her creating using ren'py but I'm worried it is a gateway to things she isn't ready for yet.
- optionalsquid 2y ago
  I'm afraid that I don't know any kids-safe spaces for budding VN readers or writers, but you can use VNDB to search for visual novels with an appropriate age rating. The following query returns all VNs with a release rated for 3-8 years, excluding any that have a release rated for older ages: https://vndb.org/v?q=&ch=&f=02N1802a48a23N19a38&s=26y https://vndb.org/v?q=&ch=&f=02N1802a48a23N19a38&s=26y Though I will caution that a lot of these are either self-reported by the authors or just guesstimates by the person who added the VN to VNDB. And I will caution that you should never trust it when a visual novel is described as "all ages": For whatever reason, the VN reading community has settled on using that term when we mean "no explicit sexual content". Beyond that, anything goes for an "all ages" VN. The search link above has a minimum age rating of 3+ for that reason
- ANighRaisin 2y ago
  You don't need Ren'Py-like software for graphic novels unless you want them to be interactive. Even so, it may be difficult for an 8-year-old to learn python and debug something like Ren'Py, especially because half of its use is entirely 18+. I would recommend something like Scratch. It's a visual scripting language that allows kids to make amazing games and animations. It has all the capabilities necessary with ease and kid-friendly forums and comment sections.
- sn9 2y ago
  If you want a safe space for kids, you're not gonna find it online.

225 points by Tomte 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Curious, I discovered this today as I played a visual novel built with it: Doki Doki literature club (free on steam). Interesting read/play, but not for everyone.

autoexec 2y ago
you can download it without steam for free (or donate if you like) at https://ddlc.moe/ https://ddlc.moe/
teddyh 2y ago
Review by “Yahtzee” Croshaw: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krq6-1ht_kk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krq6-1ht_kk>
Frotag 2y ago
Honestly I wouldn't recommend DDLC to someone new to VNs. It's hilarious but it parodies the dating sim genre by amping up the defining tropes to 11 before it then (minor spoiler, see footnote [2]). So you kind of need familiarity with the genre to understand some of the jokes. One of the more famous dating sims is probably Katawa Shoujo which is also free under a CC license. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katawa_Shoujo https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katawa_Shoujo . . . . [2] does a 180 and makes fun of the plot holes
- riffraff 2y ago
  Ah Interesting, I have only played one or two dating sims many years ago, what are some tropes which are specific to dating sims rather than those also found in romance-based anime/manga? I guess "bad endings" and "save then go back" would be specific and played with in DDLC, but I didn't pick up anything else.
  - Frotag 2y ago
    (spoilers ahead) > So you kind of need familiarity with the genre to understand some of the jokes. >> what are some tropes which are specific to dating sims rather than those also found in romance-based anime/manga? It's been a while since I've read DDLC but familiarity was probably too strong a word. Having expectations about how the story should develop and then having those subverted is a good chunk of the fun [1]. So skimming at least one dating sim vn is probably enough context. And anime / manga also cover most of that context / japan-isms that DDLC mocks (eg the school setting, the childhood friend / council prez / spoiled imouto archetypes). To your question though, the VN-specific jokes are mostly about the route system and world building. I guess these still fall under the umbrella of "bad endings" and "save then go back" but imo it's a huge umbrella that's worth exploring. So like you mentioned, DDLC toys a lot with the concept of multiple routes / save files. In most VNs each route starts the same story before branching. You don't normally expect this "common route" to change between tries but in DDLC it does in multiple ways. But more uniquely, DDLC also questions why these romantic endings exist in the first place and arrives at the conclusion that the romantic interests are psychotically obsessed... by the design of some god [2]. This also pokes at how some VNs just rewrite the world between routes to avoid distractions from the chosen love interest, as in big events that are inevitable in one route just don't happen in others. I also thought the choice system (the poems) in itself was a fun joke. Like most VNs have screens that let you vote on which route to read, one choice per route. After N screens you get placed on the route you picked most. DDLC exaggerates this by giving you 100s of screens each with multiple choices per love interest. Kind of like "Are you really really sure? Is this your final answer?" Speaking of DDLC, I should really reread Totono [3]. It's another VN-parody but less gimmicky and a bit more serious / emotional. [1] https://github.com/Bronya-Rand/DDLCModTemplate2.0/blob/v1.1.2/original_story_scripts/script-ch30.rpy#L1421-L1432 https://github.com/Bronya-Rand/DDLCModTemplate2.0/blob/v1.1.... [2] https://github.com/Bronya-Rand/DDLCModTemplate2.0/blob/69aa28b6ea5ceb750d6665890b694f733d1f170e/original_story_scripts/script-ch30.rpy#L246-L250 https://github.com/Bronya-Rand/DDLCModTemplate2.0/blob/69aa2... https://github.com/Bronya-Rand/DDLCModTemplate2.0/blob/v1.1.2/original_story_scripts/script-ch30.rpy#L273-L280 https://github.com/Bronya-Rand/DDLCModTemplate2.0/blob/v1.1.... [3] https://store.steampowered.com/app/1293820/YOU_and_ME_and_HER_A_Love_Story/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/1293820/YOU_and_ME_and_HE...
debugnik 2y ago
Interestingly, DDLC Plus, the paid rerelease with extra content, was rebuilt in Unity, presumably to support consoles.
snvzz 2y ago
vndb[0] is a non-profit VN database, and a good starting point to find reputable VNs in English (original or translated) to play. 0. https://vndb.org/ https://vndb.org/

TheDong 2y ago

This was used to make 'Analogue: A Hate Story', which in my opinion was an interesting visual novel to read, with some more unusual interactive elements as well. It feels to me like 'Hate Story' and its sequel ('Hate Plus') really pushed the bounds of what a visual novel engine can easily do.

kibwen 2y ago
It's an extremely popular engine for visual novels, to the point where it's fairly safe to assume any given VN is made using Ren'Py. For example, last year's Slay The Princess.
- TheDong 2y ago
  I don't know if that's a given. Needy Streamer Overload was the big visual novel of 2024 I think, which was Unity. The most popular modern-ish visual novels I know of, like Fate Grand Order, Dangenronpa, and Ace Attorney, aren't Ren'py. I feel like Ren'py is in the minority for modern popular visual novels, and it's definitely in the minority if you include re-releases of older visual novels. I'd expect it to be in the vast majority for independent visual novels.

optionalsquid 2y ago

As somebody who has read a large number of visual novels (VNs), I consider Ren'py one of the better engines as a consumer: - It has all the basic featured you'd expect, ranging from proper backlogs, to key bindings, and much more. You'd be shocked how many VN developers think that they can just pop out an VN engine themselves, and end up producing something that lacks even basic features. - It is performant. You'd be surprised how poorly many VN engines run really poorly. Fast-forwarding past already-read text is often capped at a surprisingly slow rate, with your CPU pegged at 100%, due to how inefficient many engines are - It is easily moddable, as you just need to plop a (pseudo-)python script into the game folder, so you can easily tweak or turn off annoying bits of UI A number of localization companies have also ported (typically older) Japanese titles to Ren'py, instead of having to struggle with poor to non-existent support for non-Japanese systems in the original engine, as well as extremely expensive engine licenses, and just straight up poorly written bespoke engines. Examples of companies having done this includes JAST USA, FAKKU, MangaGamer, and (IIRC) Sekai Project/Denpasoft. In other words, the heavy hitters of VN localization. The other main contender for best VN engine (in my mind) is the KiriKiri engine, which I believe is also open source, but which lacks the large, English-speaking community that Ren'py has built. Despite that, Ren'py does have a bit of a poor reputation in the older VN reading community, more specifically among readers who mainly read localized, Japanese VNs, due to its association with low-budget, originally English visual novels. Typically the same people have only heard of DDLC and Katawa Shoujo, when it comes to originally English visual novels

jandrese 2y ago
One thing Ren'Py does well that many other engines do poorly is forward compatibility of saves. When VNs are released in pieces over time it is important to make sure the saves carry forward. Nothing kills momentum like "you will need to start over from scratch after every update". As far as competitors go, the list is not very long. Sugarcube/Twine works ok, but tends to bog down as the projects grow large because it doesn't have a good way of breaking up the core logic across different files. The save system is also a bit of a problem since the in-browser saves tend to get lost in version updates. QSP is just a buggy confusing mess every time. People try to shoehorn RPGMaker into doing the job but it is just so clunky and slow. Custom engines, typically built in Unity, are almost always massive resource hogs and lacking in one or more of the basic features Ren'Py provides by default. Plus there is just the community aspect of it, with Ren'Py having so many developers there is a lot of institutional knowledge to be had. If you run into a problem you are probably not the first, someone else has probably solved it already.

jandrese 2y ago

They have a database of over 4,000 visual novels built with this engine, but that barely scratches the surface. If you know where to look there are many thousands more projects built on this engine.

optionalsquid 2y ago
The Visual Novel Database (VNDB) alone lists nearly 12,000 titles that have used Ren'py: (Warning: This site contains a lot of text and images that are not safe for work. And it records a lot of works that many people will probably find distressing) https://vndb.org/v?q=&ch=&f=N1802fwRen_7Py-741&s=26y https://vndb.org/v?q=&ch=&f=N1802fwRen_7Py-741&s=26y But as you say, that's barely scratching the surface. You can probably find many more on itch.io and in other communities, that nobody have bothered to add to VNDB
- hiccuphippo 2y ago
  That's weird, I don't think those old TypeMoon and Key visual novels used Ren'py. Maybe Ren'py is able to read files made for other engines like NScript or KiriKiri and that's why they show in the search?
  - optionalsquid 2y ago
    Fan-ports of VNs to Ren'py are not uncommon, in part because Ren'py supports mobile devices. For example, https://vndb.org/r99153 https://vndb.org/r99153 But you can exclude those by only searching for official releases: https://vndb.org/v?q=&ch=&f=N1803fwRen_7Py-741Ng01&s=26y https://vndb.org/v?q=&ch=&f=N1803fwRen_7Py-741Ng01&s=26y

Frotag 2y ago

For context, visual novels are basically ~novella sized stories that come with visuals like static backgrounds + a few dozen renders per character. The character renders tend to be mostly the same, with small variations in facial expression, pose, maybe outfit. All that to say, you probably won't like VNs unless you like reading. Don't expect much gameplay / animation. That said, the more famous stories tend to have multiple endings determined by a handful of choices you get during the story. On occasion, some games go for sandbox-style gameplay where you roam the map to grind out currency to unlock visual novel scenes. In terms of genre I'd say at least half are dating sims, with the rest being some kind of adventure or mystery story. I'd also guess at least half are nsfw / r18. Renpy VNs tend to be made by indie devs from everywhere but Japan, which has a VN industry with in-house engines. Writing quality tends to be what you expect from indie authors / devs. That is, filled with tropes, tending towards the wish-fulfillment types. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, you'll be surprised what you'd be willing to overlook if the premise / plot seems interesting.

jsheard 2y ago
> For context, visual novels are basically ~novella sized stories Usually, but some of them are infamously ludicrously long. Like 2-3x War and Peaces long.
- deleted 2y ago
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- Frotag 2y ago
  Got curious about the actual distribution so ran some queries on vndb [1]. Looks like the median renpy novel (with 100+ votes) takes 250min to complete with the ludicrously long ones [2] bringing the average up to 503min. engine vn count avg 25% 50% 75% Ren'Py 251 503 120 251 571 KiriKiri 187 813 241 522 1143 Unity 65 871 224 452 1109 [1] https://query.vndb.org/?sql=SELECT+%0D%0A++++r.engine%2C+%0D%0A++++COUNT%28*%29+%22count%22%2C%0D%0A++++ROUND%28AVG%28l.length%29%29+%22avg%22%2C%0D%0A++++ROUND%28PERCENTILE_CONT%280.25%29+WITHIN+GROUP%28ORDER+BY+l.length%29%29+%2225%25%22%2C%0D%0A++++ROUND%28PERCENTILE_CONT%280.50%29+WITHIN+GROUP%28ORDER+BY+l.length%29%29+%2250%25%22%2C%0D%0A++++ROUND%28PERCENTILE_CONT%280.75%29+WITHIN+GROUP%28ORDER+BY+l.length%29%29+%2275%25%22%0D%0A%0D%0A--check+only+one+release+per+vn%0D%0AFROM+%28%0D%0A++++SELECT+distinct+on+%28rl_vn.vid%29%0D%0A++++++++rl_vn.vid%2C+rl_vn.id%2C+r.engine%0D%0A++++FROM+releases_vn+rl_vn%0D%0A++++INNER+JOIN+releases+r%0D%0A++++ON+r.id+%3D+rl_vn.id%0D%0A%29+r%0D%0A%0D%0A--calc+length+of+each+vn%0D%0AINNER+JOIN+%28%0D%0A++++SELECT+vid%2C+AVG%28length%29+length%0D%0A++++FROM+vn_length_votes%0D%0A++++GROUP+BY+vid%0D%0A%29+l+ON+l.vid+%3D+r.vid%0D%0A%0D%0AINNER+JOIN+vn+ON+vn.id+%3D+r.vid%0D%0A%0D%0AWHERE+true%0D%0AAND+vn.c_votecount+%3E+100%0D%0A--AND+vn.title+NOT+LIKE+%27Fate%2Fstay+night%27%0D%0A%0D%0AGROUP+BY+r.engine%0D%0AORDER+BY+%22count%22+DESC%3B&tab=t https://query.vndb.org/?sql=SELECT+%0D%0A++++r.engine%2C+%0D... [2] https://query.vndb.org/?sql=SELECT%0D%0Avn.title%2C%0D%0AROUND%28l.length%29+length%2C%0D%0Ar.engine+%0D%0A%0D%0A--check+only+one+release+per+vn%0D%0AFROM+%28%0D%0A++++SELECT+distinct+on+%28rl_vn.vid%29%0D%0A++++++++rl_vn.vid%2C+rl_vn.id%2C+r.engine%0D%0A++++FROM+releases_vn+rl_vn%0D%0A++++INNER+JOIN+releases+r%0D%0A++++++++ON+r.id+%3D+rl_vn.id%0D%0A%29+r%0D%0A%0D%0A--calc+length+of+each+vn%0D%0AINNER+JOIN+%28%0D%0A++++SELECT+vid%2C+AVG%28length%29+length%0D%0A++++FROM+vn_length_votes%0D%0A++++GROUP+BY+vid%0D%0A%29+l+ON+l.vid+%3D+r.vid%0D%0A%0D%0AINNER+JOIN+vn+ON+vn.id+%3D+r.vid%0D%0A%0D%0AWHERE+TRUE+%0D%0AAND+vn.c_votecount+%3E+100%0D%0A--AND+r.engine+ILIKE+%27ren%25%27%0D%0A%0D%0AORDER+BY+length+DESC%3B%0D%0A&tab=t https://query.vndb.org/?sql=SELECT%0D%0Avn.title%2C%0D%0AROU... title length (min) engine HEAVEN BURNS RED 12580 CRIware Rance X -Kessen- 11085 AliceSoft System4.X Shoujo Settai 10418 Kamidori Alchemy Meister 8407 Seinarukana... 6858 Lessons in Love 6819 Ren'Py Sengoku † Koihime... 6744 CatSystem2 Higurashi no Naku Koro ni 6626

alt187 2y ago

I really wish they'd implement proper XDG stuff, because the engine is great and I love VNs but all I can think about is the ~/.renpy littering my home.

bbkane 2y ago
The battle for HOME was lost years ago unfortunately. Best to just accept defeat and enjoy the apps

lelandfe 2y ago

Some really cool stuff has been built with Ren'Py. A (fairly) recent example for me is Roadwarden, a 20hr long RPG.

programd 2y ago
I was wondering what it was built with as I was playing. Roadwarden is tripple-A storytelling and world building masquerading as a little indie title. I was very impressed by how much atmosphere it conveys with minimalistic presentation. That takes a lot of skill. Here it is on Steam, currently on sale for a criminally under priced $4.39 https://store.steampowered.com/app/1155970/Roadwarden/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/1155970/Roadwarden/
- loufe 2y ago
  Agreed, Roadwarden is an absolute gem and has earned two full playthroughs from me. It's such a compelling experience for a text-based game, it feels especially so as I'm not old enough to have a nostalgic appreciation for text games.

AdamH12113 2y ago

If you're wondering what's up with the name, "Ren'Py" is a pun on the Japanese word "ren'ai" (恋愛), which means "romantic love".

baobabKoodaa 2y ago
And at the risk of stating the obvious, Py is for Python and Ren is for Render
- TazeTSchnitzel 2y ago
  The “Ren” part is surely coincidence, it doesn't really make sense.
  - baobabKoodaa 2y ago
    "Render your visual novel with Python"?
    - TazeTSchnitzel 2y ago
      It's a game engine, not a rendering tool.
      - baobabKoodaa 2y ago
        Hmmh, you're right: "Ren" doesn't stand for "Render" here.
deleted 2y ago
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VectorLock 2y ago

If you look on SteamDB PyGame and Ren'Py are the 5th and 6th most used technologies, ahead of Godot. https://steamdb.info/tech/ https://steamdb.info/tech/ Some people point out this is mainly because of the erotic novel shovelware that is quite popular on Steam.

philipov 2y ago

I just picked up Stories from Sol: The Gun-Dog, which launched on steam this week, and was made with RenPy. It's going great so far. Some of the lore reminds me a lot of Martian Successor Nadesico. https://store.steampowered.com/app/2118420/Stories_from_Sol_The_GunDog/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/2118420/Stories_from_Sol_...

brianbest101 2y ago

The game engine that’s probably kickstarted more game dev careers than most. I remember when 4chan came together to produce the surprisingly good Katawa Shoujo with it. Wild times

nurettin 2y ago

I've always wondered if LLMs will slowly seep into this backyard. They are perfectly capable of creating the story (will probably be mid, barely interesting), the art (albeit easily recognized as AI slop) and the code (after some iterations) and with some tooling, even sign and deploy to websites all fully automated.

cwiz 2y ago
They might take it with storm and we see influx or high quality stories that can't be distinguished from those written by nips.
unreal37 2y ago
GenAI is becoming popular for image generation to add visuals to the novel.
woctordho 2y ago
VNs are interesting to AI developers because they're multimodal datasets with extensive text annotations. People are already working on this https://huggingface.co/datasets/Limour/b-corpus https://huggingface.co/datasets/Limour/b-corpus

RototRobot 2y ago

I've made two 'games' with ren'py in the past, and it's really fun engine to work in and quite an amazing engine as it can be used for the most basic straight forward game with little programming experience but also scales up to some pretty complex stuff if you have the means.

ge96 2y ago

Hehe I've come across this tech from xxx games Edit: I don't have the patience for these games but yeah I've seen the name before

Animats 2y ago

It's a player, like Flash. What does it do that Flash didn't?

woctordho 2y ago
It has a DSL specified for writing VNs

woctordho 2y ago

If you prefer JS to Python, there's also WebGAL https://github.com/OpenWebGAL/WebGAL https://github.com/OpenWebGAL/WebGAL

TazeTSchnitzel 2y ago
Trying the demo of this on my phone, there are already several kinds of jank, and one of the lines got cut off so I couldn't read it. I think that's a bad sign.

xrd 2y ago

My 8 year old daughter loves graphic novels. And she's a budding writer. I got really excited to show her some of the links posted here. Then I dug a little deeper and saw that a lot of it is very sexualized. I'm not opposed to that for adults but it isn't something I want my daughter exposed to. Anyone have suggestions for safe spaces for kids? I really love the idea of her creating using ren'py but I'm worried it is a gateway to things she isn't ready for yet.

optionalsquid 2y ago
I'm afraid that I don't know any kids-safe spaces for budding VN readers or writers, but you can use VNDB to search for visual novels with an appropriate age rating. The following query returns all VNs with a release rated for 3-8 years, excluding any that have a release rated for older ages: https://vndb.org/v?q=&ch=&f=02N1802a48a23N19a38&s=26y https://vndb.org/v?q=&ch=&f=02N1802a48a23N19a38&s=26y Though I will caution that a lot of these are either self-reported by the authors or just guesstimates by the person who added the VN to VNDB. And I will caution that you should never trust it when a visual novel is described as "all ages": For whatever reason, the VN reading community has settled on using that term when we mean "no explicit sexual content". Beyond that, anything goes for an "all ages" VN. The search link above has a minimum age rating of 3+ for that reason
ANighRaisin 2y ago
You don't need Ren'Py-like software for graphic novels unless you want them to be interactive. Even so, it may be difficult for an 8-year-old to learn python and debug something like Ren'Py, especially because half of its use is entirely 18+. I would recommend something like Scratch. It's a visual scripting language that allows kids to make amazing games and animations. It has all the capabilities necessary with ease and kid-friendly forums and comment sections.
sn9 2y ago
If you want a safe space for kids, you're not gonna find it online.