6 ms·

This is what frustrates me to no end, re what's going on with DOGE and the indistriminant shutting off of legacy systems. As Joel Spolsky once commented, , all

by unsui 2y ago

This is what frustrates me to no end, re what's going on with DOGE and the indistriminant shutting off of legacy systems. As Joel Spolsky once commented, , all non-trivial abstractions are, to some degree, leaky. This is because reality itself is leaky. Or another way to put it, reality itself is non-trivially complex. And any sufficiently long-lived production system that works at scale necessarily has to accommodate that complexity, to some degree. Yes, some of these systems are sub-optimal, but nonetheless, they work, to the extent that they are production systems. And, as anyone who has worked on legacy production systems, that complexity is itself mired in complexity, often due to weird edge and corner cases that reflect the complexity of the world that the system is attuned to. And then, to come in with the mentality of a cocky intern with delusions of grandeur and simply shut off these systems indiscriminantly..... and yes, I am asserting that this is being done indiscriminantly. It is foolish on a scale I can't fathom, as an engineer who appreciates the complexity of systems beyond my level of comprehension. Organic systems that have grown to accomodate reality, warts and all. And to simply shut things off, indiscriminantly, is beyond foolish. It is reckless, and eventually, as the body count rises, evil.

zanellato19 2y ago
Yeah, Chesterton’s Fence is simply not a principle that people like Elon pay attention to. Sometimes for the better, mostly for the worse, specially when taking over something that's already there.
investguy1 2y ago
In 1800, the government of the USA spent 2% of GDP. In 2020, the government of the USA spent 30% of GDP. In 2024, the government of France spent 57% of GDP. Are the people of 2024 France really getting 28x the value from their government as 1800 USA? It is not evil to ask these questions or to experiment with government, And more people should consider backing off from political-media consumption as it is clearly toxic to the soul. The reality that counts most is the one around you, and I see far too many people destroying their relationships with family, friends, and colleagues over national politics when there are much bigger fish to fry in one's own garden.
- Trasmatta 2y ago
  > there are much bigger fish to fry in one's own garden. Here's a pretty large fish to fry: the breakdown of democracy, and a shift towards autocracy and dictatorship. This is a fish that affects everyone's gardens, like it or not.
- zht 2y ago
  yes? is this a serious question?
- radiospiel 2y ago
  > Are the people of 2024 France really getting 28x the value from their government as 1800 USA? oh but certainly. Healthcare, social security, education, … just to name a few
  - bluGill 2y ago
    The question was 28x though. Not just are you getting more value, but is the value 28 times more. This is not clear, and probably answerable. Health care is very different between now and 1800 (in 1800 your lifespan was measurably better if you didn't go to a doctor ever - this was before handwashing and antibiotics). Even if you compare today, France and the US have many differences in the current system and so you can argue things either way and we learn more about your bias than any truth (there are pros and cons of both systems so all conclusions). Both todays are very different from either in 1800, and we have no way of knowing how either would be different.
    - gerardvivancos 2y ago
      Asking the question with the provided data is too simplistic to even argue about. "Here's the non contextualized percentages, what do you think of the difference between this two percentages which are more than two centuries apart, and from different countries?"
    - immibis 2y ago
      Percentages don't really work like that. 56% of one number isn't 28 times 2% of a different number. And it's not even the right number. GDP measures rate of number flow, not rate of benefit flow, or amount of benefit. It's also noteworthy how people ask this question about the government but never ask it about private corporations.
paulddraper 2y ago
> Organic systems that have grown to accomodate reality No argument. But is that reality public service? Or something else?

by unsui 2y ago

zanellato19 2y ago

Yeah, Chesterton’s Fence is simply not a principle that people like Elon pay attention to. Sometimes for the better, mostly for the worse, specially when taking over something that's already there.

investguy1 2y ago

In 1800, the government of the USA spent 2% of GDP. In 2020, the government of the USA spent 30% of GDP. In 2024, the government of France spent 57% of GDP. Are the people of 2024 France really getting 28x the value from their government as 1800 USA? It is not evil to ask these questions or to experiment with government, And more people should consider backing off from political-media consumption as it is clearly toxic to the soul. The reality that counts most is the one around you, and I see far too many people destroying their relationships with family, friends, and colleagues over national politics when there are much bigger fish to fry in one's own garden.

Trasmatta 2y ago
> there are much bigger fish to fry in one's own garden. Here's a pretty large fish to fry: the breakdown of democracy, and a shift towards autocracy and dictatorship. This is a fish that affects everyone's gardens, like it or not.
zht 2y ago
yes? is this a serious question?
radiospiel 2y ago
> Are the people of 2024 France really getting 28x the value from their government as 1800 USA? oh but certainly. Healthcare, social security, education, … just to name a few
- bluGill 2y ago
  The question was 28x though. Not just are you getting more value, but is the value 28 times more. This is not clear, and probably answerable. Health care is very different between now and 1800 (in 1800 your lifespan was measurably better if you didn't go to a doctor ever - this was before handwashing and antibiotics). Even if you compare today, France and the US have many differences in the current system and so you can argue things either way and we learn more about your bias than any truth (there are pros and cons of both systems so all conclusions). Both todays are very different from either in 1800, and we have no way of knowing how either would be different.
  - gerardvivancos 2y ago
    Asking the question with the provided data is too simplistic to even argue about. "Here's the non contextualized percentages, what do you think of the difference between this two percentages which are more than two centuries apart, and from different countries?"
  - immibis 2y ago
    Percentages don't really work like that. 56% of one number isn't 28 times 2% of a different number. And it's not even the right number. GDP measures rate of number flow, not rate of benefit flow, or amount of benefit. It's also noteworthy how people ask this question about the government but never ask it about private corporations.

paulddraper 2y ago

> Organic systems that have grown to accomodate reality No argument. But is that reality public service? Or something else?