6 ms·

I get why this is annoying. However, if you are using docker's registry without authentication and you don't want to go through the effort of adding the creden

by hkwerf 2y ago

I get why this is annoying. However, if you are using docker's registry without authentication and you don't want to go through the effort of adding the credentials you already have, you are essentially relying on a free service for production already, which may be pulled any time without prior notice. You are already taking the risk of a production outage. Now it's just formalized that your limit is 10 pulls per IP per hour. I don't really get how this can shift your evaluation from using (and paying for) docker's registry to paying for your own registry. It seems orthogonal to the evaluation itself.

gcapu 2y ago
If you offer a service, you have some responsibility towards your users. One of those responsibilities is to give enough notice about changes. IMO, this change doesn't provide enough notice. Why not making it a year, or at least a couple of months? Probably because they don't want people to have enough notice to force their hand.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- lukeschlather 2y ago
  Didn't they institute more modest limits some time ago? Doesn't really seem like this is out of nowhere.
  - hirako2000 2y ago
    Yes they have. They are reducing the quota further.
    - cratermoon 2y ago
      They altered the deal. Pray they don't alter it any further.
      - rad_gruchalski 2y ago
        s/Pray/Pay/
- grayhatter 2y ago
  What principal are you using to suggest that responsibility comes from? I have a blog, do I have to give my readers notice before I turn off the service because I can't afford the next hosting charge? Isn't this almost exclusively going to effect engineers? Isn't it more of the engineer's responsibility not to allow their mission critical software to have such a fragile signal point of failure? > Probably because they don't want people to have enough notice to force their hand. He says without evidence, assuming bad faith.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Aurornis 2y ago
  > Why not making it a year, or at least a couple of months? Announced in September 2024: https://www.docker.com/blog/november-2024-updated-plans-announcement/ https://www.docker.com/blog/november-2024-updated-plans-anno... At least 6 months of notice.
  - SkiFire13 2y ago
    This is not announcing the 10 (or 40) pull/hr/ip
  - jmb99 2y ago
    I use docker a few times a week and didn’t see that. Nor would I have seen this if I hadn’t opened HN today. Not exactly great notice.
    - rad_gruchalski 2y ago
      If you had an account you’d receive an email back in September 2024. I have received one…
- 4ndrewl 2y ago
  You don't. You have responsibility towards your owners/shareholders. You only have to worry about your customers if they are going to leave. Non-paying users not so much - you're just cutting costs now zirp isn't a thing.
  - gcapu 2y ago
    If this was a public company I would put my tin foil hat and believe that it's a quick buck scheme to boost CEO pay. A short sighted action that is not in the shareholders interest. But I guess that's not the case? Who knows...
    - 4ndrewl 2y ago
      At this stage of the product lifecycle, free users are unlikely to ever give you money without some further "incentives". This shouldnt be news by now, especially on HN. If you're production service is relying on a free-tier someone else provides, you must have some business continuity built in. These are not philanthropic organisations.
withinboredom 2y ago
Yes. But they are paying for this bandwidth, authenticated or not. This is just busy work, and I highly doubt it will make much of a difference. They should probably just charge more.
- rad_gruchalski 2y ago
  They charge more.
themgt 2y ago
I don't really get how this can shift your evaluation from using (and paying for) docker's registry to paying for your own registry Announcing a new limitation that requires rolling out changes to prod with 1 week notice should absolutely shift your evaluation of whether you should pay for this company's services.
- guhidalg 2y ago
  I mean, there has never not been some issue with Docker Desktop that I have to remember to work around. We're all just collectively cargo culting that Docker containers are "the way" and putting up with these troubles is the price to pay.
- tomnipotent 2y ago
  Here's an announcement from September 2024. https://www.docker.com/blog/november-2024-updated-plans-announcement/ https://www.docker.com/blog/november-2024-updated-plans-anno...
  - themgt 2y ago
    You're right, that is "an announcement": At Docker, our mission is to empower development teams by providing the tools they need to ship secure, high-quality apps — FAST. Over the past few years, we’ve continually added value for our customers, responding to the evolving needs of individual developers and organizations alike. Today, we’re excited to announce significant updates to our Docker subscription plans that will deliver even more value, flexibility, and power to your development workflows. We’ve listened closely to our community, and the message is clear: Developers want tools that meet their current needs and evolve with new capabilities to meet their future needs. That’s why we’ve revamped our plans to include access to ALL the tools our most successful customers are leveraging — Docker Desktop, Docker Hub, Docker Build Cloud, Docker Scout, and Testcontainers Cloud. Our new unified suite makes it easier for development teams to access everything they need under one subscription with included consumption for each new product and the ability to add more as they need it. This gives every paid user full access, including consumption-based options, allowing developers to scale resources as their needs evolve. Whether customers are individual developers, members of small teams, or work in large enterprises, the refreshed Docker Personal, Docker Pro, Docker Team, and Docker Business plans ensure developers have the right tools at their fingertips. These changes increase access to Docker Hub across the board, bring more value into Docker Desktop, and grant access to the additional value and new capabilities we’ve delivered to development teams over the past few years. From Docker Scout’s advanced security and software supply chain insights to Docker Build Cloud’s productivity-generating cloud build capabilities, Docker provides developers with the tools to build, deploy, and verify applications faster and more efficiently. Sorry, where in this hyped up marketingspeak walloftext does it say "WARNING we are rugging your pulls per IPv4"?
hedora 2y ago
The big problem is that the docker client makes it nearly impossible to audit a large deployment to make sure it’s not accidentally talking to docker hub. This is by design, according to docker. I’ve never encountered anyone at any of my employers that wanted to use docker hub for anything other than a one-time download of a base image like Ubuntu or Alpine. I’ve also never seen a CD deployment that doesn’t repeatedly accidentally pull in a docker hub dependency, and then occasionally have outages because of it. It’s also a massive security hole. Fork it.
- martinsnow 2y ago
  You don't have to run docker. Containerd is available.
- leoqa 2y ago
  Block the DNS if you don’t want dockerhub images. Rewrite it to your artifactory. This is really not complicated and your not entitled to unlimited anonymous usage of any service.
  - a022311 2y ago
    That will most likely fail, since the daemon tries to connect to the registry with SSL and your registry will not have the same SSL certificate as Docker Hub. I don't know if a proxy could solve this.
    - ndriscoll 2y ago
      Right but then you notice the failing CI job and fix it to correctly pull from your artifact repository. It's definitely doable. We require using an internal repo at my work where we run things like vulnerability scanners.
    - hkwerf 2y ago
      > since the daemon tries to connect to the registry with SSL If you rewrite DNS, you should of course also have a custom CA trusted by your container engine as well as appropriate certificates and host configurations for your registry. You'll always need to take these steps if you want to go the rewrite-DNS path for isolation from external services because some proprietary tool forces you to use those services.
popalchemist 2y ago
It's bait and switch that has the stakes of "adopt our new policy, that makes us money, that you never signed up for, or your business fails." That's a gun to the head. Not an acceptable interaction. This will be the end of Docker Hub if they don't walk back.
- hirako2000 2y ago
  To think of malice is mistaken. It's incompetence. Docker doesn't know how to monetize.
atkailash 2y ago
[dead]

by hkwerf 2y ago

gcapu 2y ago

If you offer a service, you have some responsibility towards your users. One of those responsibilities is to give enough notice about changes. IMO, this change doesn't provide enough notice. Why not making it a year, or at least a couple of months? Probably because they don't want people to have enough notice to force their hand.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
lukeschlather 2y ago
Didn't they institute more modest limits some time ago? Doesn't really seem like this is out of nowhere.
- hirako2000 2y ago
  Yes they have. They are reducing the quota further.
  - cratermoon 2y ago
    They altered the deal. Pray they don't alter it any further.
    - rad_gruchalski 2y ago
      s/Pray/Pay/
grayhatter 2y ago
What principal are you using to suggest that responsibility comes from? I have a blog, do I have to give my readers notice before I turn off the service because I can't afford the next hosting charge? Isn't this almost exclusively going to effect engineers? Isn't it more of the engineer's responsibility not to allow their mission critical software to have such a fragile signal point of failure? > Probably because they don't want people to have enough notice to force their hand. He says without evidence, assuming bad faith.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Aurornis 2y ago
> Why not making it a year, or at least a couple of months? Announced in September 2024: https://www.docker.com/blog/november-2024-updated-plans-announcement/ https://www.docker.com/blog/november-2024-updated-plans-anno... At least 6 months of notice.
- SkiFire13 2y ago
  This is not announcing the 10 (or 40) pull/hr/ip
- jmb99 2y ago
  I use docker a few times a week and didn’t see that. Nor would I have seen this if I hadn’t opened HN today. Not exactly great notice.
  - rad_gruchalski 2y ago
    If you had an account you’d receive an email back in September 2024. I have received one…
4ndrewl 2y ago
You don't. You have responsibility towards your owners/shareholders. You only have to worry about your customers if they are going to leave. Non-paying users not so much - you're just cutting costs now zirp isn't a thing.
- gcapu 2y ago
  If this was a public company I would put my tin foil hat and believe that it's a quick buck scheme to boost CEO pay. A short sighted action that is not in the shareholders interest. But I guess that's not the case? Who knows...
  - 4ndrewl 2y ago
    At this stage of the product lifecycle, free users are unlikely to ever give you money without some further "incentives". This shouldnt be news by now, especially on HN. If you're production service is relying on a free-tier someone else provides, you must have some business continuity built in. These are not philanthropic organisations.

withinboredom 2y ago

Yes. But they are paying for this bandwidth, authenticated or not. This is just busy work, and I highly doubt it will make much of a difference. They should probably just charge more.

rad_gruchalski 2y ago
They charge more.

themgt 2y ago

I don't really get how this can shift your evaluation from using (and paying for) docker's registry to paying for your own registry Announcing a new limitation that requires rolling out changes to prod with 1 week notice should absolutely shift your evaluation of whether you should pay for this company's services.

guhidalg 2y ago
I mean, there has never not been some issue with Docker Desktop that I have to remember to work around. We're all just collectively cargo culting that Docker containers are "the way" and putting up with these troubles is the price to pay.
tomnipotent 2y ago
Here's an announcement from September 2024. https://www.docker.com/blog/november-2024-updated-plans-announcement/ https://www.docker.com/blog/november-2024-updated-plans-anno...
- themgt 2y ago
  You're right, that is "an announcement": At Docker, our mission is to empower development teams by providing the tools they need to ship secure, high-quality apps — FAST. Over the past few years, we’ve continually added value for our customers, responding to the evolving needs of individual developers and organizations alike. Today, we’re excited to announce significant updates to our Docker subscription plans that will deliver even more value, flexibility, and power to your development workflows. We’ve listened closely to our community, and the message is clear: Developers want tools that meet their current needs and evolve with new capabilities to meet their future needs. That’s why we’ve revamped our plans to include access to ALL the tools our most successful customers are leveraging — Docker Desktop, Docker Hub, Docker Build Cloud, Docker Scout, and Testcontainers Cloud. Our new unified suite makes it easier for development teams to access everything they need under one subscription with included consumption for each new product and the ability to add more as they need it. This gives every paid user full access, including consumption-based options, allowing developers to scale resources as their needs evolve. Whether customers are individual developers, members of small teams, or work in large enterprises, the refreshed Docker Personal, Docker Pro, Docker Team, and Docker Business plans ensure developers have the right tools at their fingertips. These changes increase access to Docker Hub across the board, bring more value into Docker Desktop, and grant access to the additional value and new capabilities we’ve delivered to development teams over the past few years. From Docker Scout’s advanced security and software supply chain insights to Docker Build Cloud’s productivity-generating cloud build capabilities, Docker provides developers with the tools to build, deploy, and verify applications faster and more efficiently. Sorry, where in this hyped up marketingspeak walloftext does it say "WARNING we are rugging your pulls per IPv4"?

hedora 2y ago

The big problem is that the docker client makes it nearly impossible to audit a large deployment to make sure it’s not accidentally talking to docker hub. This is by design, according to docker. I’ve never encountered anyone at any of my employers that wanted to use docker hub for anything other than a one-time download of a base image like Ubuntu or Alpine. I’ve also never seen a CD deployment that doesn’t repeatedly accidentally pull in a docker hub dependency, and then occasionally have outages because of it. It’s also a massive security hole. Fork it.

martinsnow 2y ago
You don't have to run docker. Containerd is available.
leoqa 2y ago
Block the DNS if you don’t want dockerhub images. Rewrite it to your artifactory. This is really not complicated and your not entitled to unlimited anonymous usage of any service.
- a022311 2y ago
  That will most likely fail, since the daemon tries to connect to the registry with SSL and your registry will not have the same SSL certificate as Docker Hub. I don't know if a proxy could solve this.
  - ndriscoll 2y ago
    Right but then you notice the failing CI job and fix it to correctly pull from your artifact repository. It's definitely doable. We require using an internal repo at my work where we run things like vulnerability scanners.
  - hkwerf 2y ago
    > since the daemon tries to connect to the registry with SSL If you rewrite DNS, you should of course also have a custom CA trusted by your container engine as well as appropriate certificates and host configurations for your registry. You'll always need to take these steps if you want to go the rewrite-DNS path for isolation from external services because some proprietary tool forces you to use those services.

popalchemist 2y ago

It's bait and switch that has the stakes of "adopt our new policy, that makes us money, that you never signed up for, or your business fails." That's a gun to the head. Not an acceptable interaction. This will be the end of Docker Hub if they don't walk back.

hirako2000 2y ago
To think of malice is mistaken. It's incompetence. Docker doesn't know how to monetize.

atkailash 2y ago

[dead]