15 ms·

If you know basic programming (js/python), a day is more than enough to get the concept across using a tiny language. Could probably be done in an hour. The pr

by sieve 2y ago

If you know basic programming (js/python), a day is more than enough to get the concept across using a tiny language. Could probably be done in an hour. The problem, always, is people are given terrible reading recommendations which makes the subject more complicated than it is.

RossBencina 2y ago
I never took a compilers course. The first reading recommendation I got was The Dragon Book. Perhaps not the worst starting place at the time (mid 90s) but my memory of it was that the book was front-loaded with automata and parser theory. At the time I didn't really make it past the front end. It would be interesting to see a compiler tutorial that started at codegen and worked backwards (or started at the ends: lexing and codegen, and worked towards the middle in alternating chapters).
- sieve 2y ago
  The Dragon Book is terrible as an introduction. There are better books I would probably recommend, but not to a beginner. The best "complete" intro out there today is Nystrom's Crafting Interpreters.[1] [1] https://www.craftinginterpreters.com/contents.html https://www.craftinginterpreters.com/contents.html
  - RossBencina 2y ago
    > There are better books I would probably recommend I'm curious what you'd recommend. For what it's worth my goal was to compile to machine code. Anything less would have seemed insufficient. Later I got Appel's "Modern Compiler Implementation in Java" and Allen and Kennedy "Optimizing Compilers for Modern Architectures". Cooper and Torczon "Engineering a Compiler" was recommended here recently. I haven't seen it.
    - sieve 2y ago
      I got started from the books that were available here in the early 2000s. The one I like the most is "Programming Language Pragmatics" by Michael Scott, mainly for its simplicity. Then there is "Advanced Compiler Design and Implementation" by Steven Muchnick. I have Allen-Kennedy's book too, but I think it went over my head when I went through it. So I kept it aside. "Engineering a Compiler" is quite approachable. But, once you know the basics, you get the best bang-for-the-buck by looking at source code of various compilers and virtual machines.
    - sitkack 2y ago
      There is a whole body of non-academic work aimed at practioners for implementing compilers. Nils Holm's work https://t3x.org/ https://t3x.org/ Teaching and Learning Compilers Incrementally - Jeremy Siek - RacketCon 2023 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43VA_QaTRT8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43VA_QaTRT8 Nanopass https://nanopass.org/ https://nanopass.org/ original paper that was the basis for nanopass http://scheme2006.cs.uchicago.edu/11-ghuloum.pdf http://scheme2006.cs.uchicago.edu/11-ghuloum.pdf https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammingLanguages/comments/gnzrap/the_nanopass_framework_as_a_nanopass_compiler_els/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammingLanguages/comments/gnzra... The Crafting Interpreters and the Thorsten Ball books https://craftinginterpreters.com/contents.html https://craftinginterpreters.com/contents.html https://interpreterbook.com/ https://interpreterbook.com/ https://compilerbook.com/ https://compilerbook.com/ https://www.phind.com/search/cm7efcpv000002e6hqdbfojex https://www.phind.com/search/cm7efcpv000002e6hqdbfojex
      - ratmice 2y ago
        I don't think that the ghuloum 2006 paper was the initial basis for nanopass, at least the paper A Nanopass Framework for Compiler Education∗ seems to predate it in 2004 https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/1016848.1016878 https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/1016848.1016878
- delta_p_delta_x 2y ago
  > It would be interesting to see a compiler tutorial that started at codegen and worked backwards (or started at the ends: lexing and codegen, and worked towards the middle in alternating chapters) This is exactly how my university's compiler course did it[1]. It was really nice to start with assembly and go upwards. We had all the lexing/parsing stuff being discussed around the middle of the semester rather than being saddled with theory-heavy regex, automata theory, etc right at the beginning. [1]: https://ilyasergey.net/CS4212/ https://ilyasergey.net/CS4212/

by sieve 2y ago

RossBencina 2y ago

I never took a compilers course. The first reading recommendation I got was The Dragon Book. Perhaps not the worst starting place at the time (mid 90s) but my memory of it was that the book was front-loaded with automata and parser theory. At the time I didn't really make it past the front end. It would be interesting to see a compiler tutorial that started at codegen and worked backwards (or started at the ends: lexing and codegen, and worked towards the middle in alternating chapters).

sieve 2y ago
The Dragon Book is terrible as an introduction. There are better books I would probably recommend, but not to a beginner. The best "complete" intro out there today is Nystrom's Crafting Interpreters.[1] [1] https://www.craftinginterpreters.com/contents.html https://www.craftinginterpreters.com/contents.html
- RossBencina 2y ago
  > There are better books I would probably recommend I'm curious what you'd recommend. For what it's worth my goal was to compile to machine code. Anything less would have seemed insufficient. Later I got Appel's "Modern Compiler Implementation in Java" and Allen and Kennedy "Optimizing Compilers for Modern Architectures". Cooper and Torczon "Engineering a Compiler" was recommended here recently. I haven't seen it.
  - sieve 2y ago
    I got started from the books that were available here in the early 2000s. The one I like the most is "Programming Language Pragmatics" by Michael Scott, mainly for its simplicity. Then there is "Advanced Compiler Design and Implementation" by Steven Muchnick. I have Allen-Kennedy's book too, but I think it went over my head when I went through it. So I kept it aside. "Engineering a Compiler" is quite approachable. But, once you know the basics, you get the best bang-for-the-buck by looking at source code of various compilers and virtual machines.
  - sitkack 2y ago
    There is a whole body of non-academic work aimed at practioners for implementing compilers. Nils Holm's work https://t3x.org/ https://t3x.org/ Teaching and Learning Compilers Incrementally - Jeremy Siek - RacketCon 2023 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43VA_QaTRT8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43VA_QaTRT8 Nanopass https://nanopass.org/ https://nanopass.org/ original paper that was the basis for nanopass http://scheme2006.cs.uchicago.edu/11-ghuloum.pdf http://scheme2006.cs.uchicago.edu/11-ghuloum.pdf https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammingLanguages/comments/gnzrap/the_nanopass_framework_as_a_nanopass_compiler_els/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammingLanguages/comments/gnzra... The Crafting Interpreters and the Thorsten Ball books https://craftinginterpreters.com/contents.html https://craftinginterpreters.com/contents.html https://interpreterbook.com/ https://interpreterbook.com/ https://compilerbook.com/ https://compilerbook.com/ https://www.phind.com/search/cm7efcpv000002e6hqdbfojex https://www.phind.com/search/cm7efcpv000002e6hqdbfojex
    - ratmice 2y ago
      I don't think that the ghuloum 2006 paper was the initial basis for nanopass, at least the paper A Nanopass Framework for Compiler Education∗ seems to predate it in 2004 https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/1016848.1016878 https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/1016848.1016878
delta_p_delta_x 2y ago
> It would be interesting to see a compiler tutorial that started at codegen and worked backwards (or started at the ends: lexing and codegen, and worked towards the middle in alternating chapters) This is exactly how my university's compiler course did it[1]. It was really nice to start with assembly and go upwards. We had all the lexing/parsing stuff being discussed around the middle of the semester rather than being saddled with theory-heavy regex, automata theory, etc right at the beginning. [1]: https://ilyasergey.net/CS4212/ https://ilyasergey.net/CS4212/