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(1) Do we know if he was applying to these schools as an impacted major? I went to a UC school and computer science (which I'm guessing was his stated major, ba

(1) Do we know if he was applying to these schools as an impacted major? I went to a UC school and computer science (which I'm guessing was his stated major, based on the Google job offer) was an impacted major, and clearly stated as such. It was harder to get in as a CS major than as a bio major. (2) It's kind of unclear from the article, but is the argument that being hired by Google is evidence that he _should_ have been accepted by those schools? Or is that just an auxiliary detail?

madcaptenor 2y ago
From the web site of the organization they started up, SWORD (https://sword.education https://sword.education): "Based solely on these assessments, without any external influence, Google extended Stanley a full-time employment offer for a position requiring a Ph.D. or equivalent practical experience." I think the job offer is part of the argument.
- dekhn 2y ago
  His father is a software engineering manager at Google already. That probably played a larger role than they want to admit (merely knowing somebody who works there can be a huge advantage for getting in, even if they don't refer you or support your packet internally).
  - madcaptenor 2y ago
    Probably! And I'm sure the lawyers for the opposition will point that out.
  - taylodl 2y ago
    > His father is a software engineering manager at Google already Maybe everybody who's been denied employment at Google, and met all of Google's hiring requirements, should sue Google for nepotism, eh?
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
(1) He applied in computer science. Other sources mention this student was also very successful in CS-related competitions - first place in Battlecode, third place in pico CTF, etc. So he was essentially a top candidate. (2) Yes, I think that is the argument, that Google was willing to hire based on merit while universities are running admission processes that discriminate against Asian students even when their claimed policy is to not discriminate. The lawsuit against the University of California is due to UC’s lack of transparency or responsiveness on investigations into this student’s rejection.
- spondylosaurus 2y ago
  > So he was essentially a top candidate. Do we know that he was a top candidate though? Like, I know that sounds obtuse, because clearly he had some good scores, solid GPA, etc. But in a vacuum it's hard to disprove that there weren't 1000 other candidates with equally impressive stats.
- acdha 2y ago
  His father is a manager at Google, which means we shouldn’t assume that Google’s hiring decision is based solely on merit. Even if everything is entirely above board, having someone with direct experience in the hiring process coaching you is a big edge compared to what other applicants get. https://www.linkedin.com/mwlite/profile/in/nanzhong https://www.linkedin.com/mwlite/profile/in/nanzhong Re: the UC decisions, I hope this gets a fair investigation but I will note that I know multiple people who’ve been involved in university admissions who’ve all commented on how insanely competitive things are now at the top schools. Everyone got the message that they should major in CS over the last couple of decades and the programs mentioned in the news articles must get a hundred applicants for every open spot. I’ve heard too many stories about turning down kids with perfect SATs, multiple AP 5s, great extracurriculars, etc. because they weren’t even the only graduate from their high school with those characteristics.
  - dekhn 2y ago
    If folks aren't aware, there are a number of schools in the Bay Area (as well as Massachuesetts, New York, and many other places) where there are 3-5 or more "top students" all of whom have between 4.2 and 5 GPA, near-perfect-to-perfect SAT, as well as sports/music/other activities, and the universities have a selection algorithm that tries to pick no more than one such applicant (like a per-highschool quota) that falls into an equivclass. College admissions are a second-order planning process (IE, you have to consider whether the applicant is likely to accept your offer, if you forgo an offer to another candidate with lesser creds that was more likely to accept). See https://www.amazon.com/Gatekeepers-Admissions-Process-Premier-College/dp/0142003085 https://www.amazon.com/Gatekeepers-Admissions-Process-Premie... for some insight into the process.
jerlam 2y ago
Are CS majors still impacted? I would have thought the continuing multi-year industry layoffs, the scapegoating of "Big Tech", and the AI hype/doom train would have reduced its popularity.
- spondylosaurus 2y ago
  From what I hear, it's still a very popular major, to the chagrin of new grads who find out that the market is rougher than they expected :P EDIT: I checked and it's still an impacted major at my alma mater, too.

madcaptenor 2y ago

From the web site of the organization they started up, SWORD (https://sword.education https://sword.education): "Based solely on these assessments, without any external influence, Google extended Stanley a full-time employment offer for a position requiring a Ph.D. or equivalent practical experience." I think the job offer is part of the argument.

dekhn 2y ago
His father is a software engineering manager at Google already. That probably played a larger role than they want to admit (merely knowing somebody who works there can be a huge advantage for getting in, even if they don't refer you or support your packet internally).
- madcaptenor 2y ago
  Probably! And I'm sure the lawyers for the opposition will point that out.
- taylodl 2y ago
  > His father is a software engineering manager at Google already Maybe everybody who's been denied employment at Google, and met all of Google's hiring requirements, should sue Google for nepotism, eh?

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago

(1) He applied in computer science. Other sources mention this student was also very successful in CS-related competitions - first place in Battlecode, third place in pico CTF, etc. So he was essentially a top candidate. (2) Yes, I think that is the argument, that Google was willing to hire based on merit while universities are running admission processes that discriminate against Asian students even when their claimed policy is to not discriminate. The lawsuit against the University of California is due to UC’s lack of transparency or responsiveness on investigations into this student’s rejection.

spondylosaurus 2y ago
> So he was essentially a top candidate. Do we know that he was a top candidate though? Like, I know that sounds obtuse, because clearly he had some good scores, solid GPA, etc. But in a vacuum it's hard to disprove that there weren't 1000 other candidates with equally impressive stats.
acdha 2y ago
His father is a manager at Google, which means we shouldn’t assume that Google’s hiring decision is based solely on merit. Even if everything is entirely above board, having someone with direct experience in the hiring process coaching you is a big edge compared to what other applicants get. https://www.linkedin.com/mwlite/profile/in/nanzhong https://www.linkedin.com/mwlite/profile/in/nanzhong Re: the UC decisions, I hope this gets a fair investigation but I will note that I know multiple people who’ve been involved in university admissions who’ve all commented on how insanely competitive things are now at the top schools. Everyone got the message that they should major in CS over the last couple of decades and the programs mentioned in the news articles must get a hundred applicants for every open spot. I’ve heard too many stories about turning down kids with perfect SATs, multiple AP 5s, great extracurriculars, etc. because they weren’t even the only graduate from their high school with those characteristics.
- dekhn 2y ago
  If folks aren't aware, there are a number of schools in the Bay Area (as well as Massachuesetts, New York, and many other places) where there are 3-5 or more "top students" all of whom have between 4.2 and 5 GPA, near-perfect-to-perfect SAT, as well as sports/music/other activities, and the universities have a selection algorithm that tries to pick no more than one such applicant (like a per-highschool quota) that falls into an equivclass. College admissions are a second-order planning process (IE, you have to consider whether the applicant is likely to accept your offer, if you forgo an offer to another candidate with lesser creds that was more likely to accept). See https://www.amazon.com/Gatekeepers-Admissions-Process-Premier-College/dp/0142003085 https://www.amazon.com/Gatekeepers-Admissions-Process-Premie... for some insight into the process.

jerlam 2y ago

Are CS majors still impacted? I would have thought the continuing multi-year industry layoffs, the scapegoating of "Big Tech", and the AI hype/doom train would have reduced its popularity.

spondylosaurus 2y ago
From what I hear, it's still a very popular major, to the chagrin of new grads who find out that the market is rougher than they expected :P EDIT: I checked and it's still an impacted major at my alma mater, too.