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The even bigger challenge is that hiring experts in any domain requires domain knowledge, but hiring has been shifted to HR. They aren't experts in anything, an

The even bigger challenge is that hiring experts in any domain requires domain knowledge, but hiring has been shifted to HR. They aren't experts in anything, and for some years they made do with formulaic approaches, but that doesn't cut it anymore. So now if your group wants to get it done, and done well, you have to get involved yourself, and it's a lot of work on top of your regular tasks. Maybe more work because HR is deeply involved.

ctkhn 2y ago
I saw this at the big corporate (not faang/tech) place I work at. Engineers run and score interviews, but we don't make the final decision. That goes to HR and the hiring manager who usually has no technically background.
- moodyredtimes 2y ago
  Yup, I have seen some really poor decisions as a result of this. I'm also curious - what will be the effect of AI assistance during behavior interviews, etc.
ghaff 2y ago
>hiring has been shifted to HR Well, unless you know sufficiently senior people. But I suspect that is a deeply unsatisfactory answer to many people in this forum. My long term last, only technically-adjacent, job came through a combination of knowing execs, having gone to the same school as my ultimate manager, and knowing various other people involved. (And having a portfolio of public work.)
- tempodox 2y ago
  Personal networks only disadvantage those who have none.
  - ghaff 2y ago
    I suspect many people who don't have strong networks for whatever reason resent that. To which you could probably tack on not having gone to the "right" schools or having a public portfolio.
    - apwell23 2y ago
      also hard on introverts who already get punished in workplaces that promote ppl based on proximity and visiblity.
      - ghaff 2y ago
        Well, they also promote people based on impact and, with rare exceptions, if you're holed up in a corner someplace you're probably not having a huge amount of impact.
        floating-io 2y ago
        Reality is that the ones quietly holed up in the corner are usually doing all the unsexy maintenance-type work that the extroverts don't want to do (because it's not sexy). Nobody cares about that work... until it doesn't get done. And so, nobody doing it gets promoted.
        ghaff 2y ago
        Or it gets outsourced which is what often happens.
        ambicapter 2y ago
        Communicating the importance of your work is a professional skill.
        ghaff 2y ago
        And if it actually isn't very important, you should probably find something else to do or move on in some other way.
BobaFloutist 2y ago
HR are experts in HR, which is to say they have a broader view of the institutional needs and legal requirements of hiring staffing than you do. It's always annoying when that clashes with your vision, but dismissing their entire domain is unlikely to help you avoid running into that dynamic again and again
bongoman42 2y ago
I've never seen hiring completely in the domain of HR. HR filters incoming candidates and checks for culture fit etc, but technical competency is checked by engineers/ML folks. I can't imagine an HR person checking if someone understands neural networks.
- typewithrhythm 2y ago
  HR involvement is unavoidable at big companies; and basics like "years of experience for payband" can cause issues. They fundamentally do not understand the job, but somehow have to ensure its not a biased hiring process.
  - bongoman42 2y ago
    Yes, and it is kind of necessary when hiring people from outside trusted networks. HR makes sure if people are who they say they are, background checks, and so on. Years of experience and so on are crude filters and should be bypassable by the team/hiring manager if the candidate meets the requirements. I know in large companies this can become political.
    - typewithrhythm 2y ago
      The big issue with the implementations I have seen is because HR aims to minimise the number of checks they do, so they can appear efficient. So most aim to do as much resume filtering as they can first, then short calls, then background checks. And the filtering and the call are areas where domain knowledge is relevant.
whiplash451 2y ago
> hiring has been shifted to HR Not everywhere. At my company, HR owns the process but we -- the hiring tech team -- own the content of interviews and the outcomes.

ctkhn 2y ago

I saw this at the big corporate (not faang/tech) place I work at. Engineers run and score interviews, but we don't make the final decision. That goes to HR and the hiring manager who usually has no technically background.

moodyredtimes 2y ago
Yup, I have seen some really poor decisions as a result of this. I'm also curious - what will be the effect of AI assistance during behavior interviews, etc.

ghaff 2y ago

>hiring has been shifted to HR Well, unless you know sufficiently senior people. But I suspect that is a deeply unsatisfactory answer to many people in this forum. My long term last, only technically-adjacent, job came through a combination of knowing execs, having gone to the same school as my ultimate manager, and knowing various other people involved. (And having a portfolio of public work.)

tempodox 2y ago
Personal networks only disadvantage those who have none.
- ghaff 2y ago
  I suspect many people who don't have strong networks for whatever reason resent that. To which you could probably tack on not having gone to the "right" schools or having a public portfolio.
  - apwell23 2y ago
    also hard on introverts who already get punished in workplaces that promote ppl based on proximity and visiblity.
    - ghaff 2y ago
      Well, they also promote people based on impact and, with rare exceptions, if you're holed up in a corner someplace you're probably not having a huge amount of impact.
      - floating-io 2y ago
        Reality is that the ones quietly holed up in the corner are usually doing all the unsexy maintenance-type work that the extroverts don't want to do (because it's not sexy). Nobody cares about that work... until it doesn't get done. And so, nobody doing it gets promoted.
        ghaff 2y ago
        Or it gets outsourced which is what often happens.
        ambicapter 2y ago
        Communicating the importance of your work is a professional skill.
        ghaff 2y ago
        And if it actually isn't very important, you should probably find something else to do or move on in some other way.

BobaFloutist 2y ago

HR are experts in HR, which is to say they have a broader view of the institutional needs and legal requirements of hiring staffing than you do. It's always annoying when that clashes with your vision, but dismissing their entire domain is unlikely to help you avoid running into that dynamic again and again

bongoman42 2y ago

I've never seen hiring completely in the domain of HR. HR filters incoming candidates and checks for culture fit etc, but technical competency is checked by engineers/ML folks. I can't imagine an HR person checking if someone understands neural networks.

typewithrhythm 2y ago
HR involvement is unavoidable at big companies; and basics like "years of experience for payband" can cause issues. They fundamentally do not understand the job, but somehow have to ensure its not a biased hiring process.
- bongoman42 2y ago
  Yes, and it is kind of necessary when hiring people from outside trusted networks. HR makes sure if people are who they say they are, background checks, and so on. Years of experience and so on are crude filters and should be bypassable by the team/hiring manager if the candidate meets the requirements. I know in large companies this can become political.
  - typewithrhythm 2y ago
    The big issue with the implementations I have seen is because HR aims to minimise the number of checks they do, so they can appear efficient. So most aim to do as much resume filtering as they can first, then short calls, then background checks. And the filtering and the call are areas where domain knowledge is relevant.

whiplash451 2y ago

> hiring has been shifted to HR Not everywhere. At my company, HR owns the process but we -- the hiring tech team -- own the content of interviews and the outcomes.