5 ms·

The challenge with any article like this is that the correlated impact on health outcomes is always implied in the article but is rarely studied as part of the

The challenge with any article like this is that the correlated impact on health outcomes is always implied in the article but is rarely studied as part of the research cited. Just because a is bad and b has a property similar to a that doesn't imply b has the same harmful impacts as a. I really wish articles would limit big headlines like this unless the research cited was directly comparing mortality and health outcomes directly. If the study this article was based on came to the conclusion that 'average household aerosol use has a similar associated mortality risk as average city car pollution' then the title could have been warranted but instead we got a bit of click-bait. A slightly better title could have been 'Scented products cause unexpected levels of indoor air pollution'. I'd even argue 'Scented products cause concerning levels of indoor air pollution' is a reasonable title since it is worth our concern and further study.

7thaccount 2y ago
Not much to add here other than as someone with terrible allergies and asthma, the constant need for plugin air fresheners, scented candles, scented laundry detergent, and scented lotions, perfumes, febreeze, and scented deodorant drives me crazy. I don't think normal folks realize how they're breathing in straight chemicals all day.
- TylerE 2y ago
  One of the reasons I still mask. An N95, while not perfect (an N100 with a carbon layer would be the real ticket), blocks a lot of the common scents. Things like those dangly air fresheners every ride share driver has about 5 of.
  - schiffern 2y ago
    Sad how masking has become such a bugbear[1] that this eminently sensible and practical solution is somehow controversial. [1 ] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bugbear https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bugbear
  - 7thaccount 2y ago
    You're right. Almost every Uber driver has one and I immediately worry about the sneezing, headaches, and wheezing.
- laborcontract 2y ago
  Chemical allergies are an area where I'm fine oversimplifying decisions and using a simple heuristic of "if my body says no, stay the heck away." Of our five senses, smell is the most well attuned for detecting something that'll hurt us internally (ie poison cancer).
- MyOutfitIsVague 2y ago
  I hate all that stuff too, but I have to nit-pick the last sentence. Everything you breathe is chemicals. Everything that is good for you and bad for you is chemicals. This in particular bothers me because I end up having this discussion with family members all the time who are convinced that "chemicals" are bad for you, and they only eat food without "chemicals".
  - schiffern 2y ago
    Of course this is technically correct (almost a cliche really), but I think we all realize that "chemicals" in this context means "novel untested synthetic chemicals." That's a mouthful, so we use shorthand.
    - YurgenJurgensen 2y ago
      It’s not the end of the world, but it’s still bad. It’s the kind of woolly definition that lets charlatans get away with blatant lies in advertising.
      - schiffern 2y ago
        Let's not be overly dramatic. Charlatans are already lying, and they can easily switch verbiage. If you can suggest a pithy replacement terminology for "what we really mean" here, I'm sure we'll all adopt it whole-heartedly. Until then, people are going to use the same (easily deciphered) shorthand. Tilting at this particular windmill doesn't actually improve anything or protect anybody.
        YurgenJurgensen 2y ago
        That’s the thing. The reason why there’s no concise term is because it’s not really a meaningful concept. Does hemlock contain chemicals? Is botulin a chemical? They’re both 100% natural. The colloquial sense is totally meaningless, so by insisting on the scientific definition, you’re stopping marketers from saying nothing while looking like they’re saying something. Also, ‘things are bad for other reasons’ isn’t an argument for trying to eliminate this particular reason.
- 14 2y ago
  I am thankful my workplace has a no scent policy. Unfortunately I have to go into clients homes all day so sometimes run into heavily scented homes. If we report it our boss will inform the client they need to remove it or not use it prior to our visits or open a window. I am thankful that I am naturally not a smelly person (confirmed by girlfriends) and I shower with non scented soap and I don't ever wear deodorant. Sadly I have teens. They over spray perfumes and colognes to the point that I can't even be near them at times. I hope the unscented trend picks up and spreads to more places. Thinking about the topic of scents were you around when you could basically smoke anywhere? I remember the days walking in a mall smoking and people would just drop the smoke and step on it then walk away. Banning smoking from public places where I live was the greatest thing.
- kstrauser 2y ago
  Oh man. A previous employer had someone come around and spray for bugs monthly. I told them to let me know when it was going to be so I could stay away for an afternoon. The exterminator insisted it was perfectly safe and wouldn’t bother me. Yeah, well, immune stuff runs in the family — my older sister had lupus — and it did, in fact, bother me. As a test or something, he came around spraying without telling me. I was in my office when I felt my sinuses starting to swell and my chest started tightening. When I walked out into the common room and saw him smiling at me with a “see, told you it’s your imagination” grin, my coworkers had to drag me outside because I was ready to kill him. Look, man, I’d freaking love not to have asthma and other allergy stuff. I don’t like taking handfuls of antihistamines. I’m not trying to be a pain in the ass. I just don’t, like, enjoying dying.
  - fredrikholm 2y ago
    There's few things that makes me dislike someone quicker than when they dismiss the suffering of others, or use their own circumstances to dismiss others inability to "just don't X". Look, man, shut up.
    - mcny 2y ago
      Or trivializes other people's work. Like when a lead developer or a manager wants to chime in and say the story point estimate is too much and it should be smaller. > Just do x, y, z Ok then you take the story. > Oh but I don't know frontend. But you know the estimate is wrong? I hate the word "just"
      - chriswarbo 2y ago
        > I hate the word "just" This is one of those things that someone pointed out to me, I agreed with them and have since tried to avoid saying "just do ...", "why not just ...", etc. However, that means I now really notice it from others. sigh
        Thorrez 2y ago
- anal_reactor 2y ago
  I am the opposite. My nose has barely any sensitivity, so I love intense smells, because they actually make me smell something. Also, fuck the people who keep windows open 24/7 even during winter. They make everyone cold just because the air isn't perfectly fresh. At my previous job we had a guy who'd always come and instantly open the windows. I know that I'm the minority with my preference to keep them shut, so I just suffered in silence, except for these first 30 minutes before he showed up, those were a blessing. He lived outside of the city and commuted, and one time he really needed to sleep inside the city, and I had a spare bed, so I let him sleep at my place. He walked in and instantly said "Can we open the window?", to which I replied "NO, WE CANNOT". I cannot describe how satisfying that felt.
  - aja12 2y ago
    Did you invite him on purpose?
- ako 2y ago
  I had a leaky air freshener attached to wall, it dripped on top of baseboard, the chemicals did a better job removing the paint on the baseboard that regular paint removers…
- exe34 2y ago
  same here. my downstairs neighbour burns garlic for every meal, and then burns some kind of incense to get rid of the smell of garlic. both of them somehow come up through the floor and make me retch, so I have to open the window - at which point she goes outside for a smoke and most of it seems to come in through that window. live among people, they said. it'll be nice, they said.
  - anonym29 2y ago
    Obviously this is your own fault for accepting the social contract, you should've declined back when you had the chance! /s
    - exe34 2y ago
      I'm moving soon, and I'll defect by not mentioning it to prospective tenants when they visit. I'd like my deposit back.
      - anonym29 2y ago
        Joking aside, sorry you have to deal with this. I know how stressful nuisance neighbors can be. Best of luck on your upcoming move!
        exe34 2y ago
        thanks! I'm overly sensitive, so I'm sure I'll find something to hate about the new place!
        anonym29 2y ago
        Hang in there. It took me 9 different units at 7 different properties in 3 different states to find the one that was just right for me, but it was out there - don't give up :)
KennyBlanken 2y ago
> The challenge with any article like this is that the correlated impact on health outcomes is always implied in the article but is rarely studied as part of the research cited. The scope of the research is determined by the researchers conducting the research, not what you think it should be, especially since you do not understand the basics of the scientific method - or that research is highly iterative and derivative. A great deal of research sets out only to establish whether it is worth pursuing further research on a particular hypothesis. > I really wish articles would limit big headlines like this unless the research cited was directly comparing mortality and health outcomes directly. That wasn't the scope of the research. > If the study this article was based on came to the conclusion that 'average household aerosol use has a similar associated mortality risk as average city car pollution' then the title could have been warranted but instead we got a bit of click-bait. Proving health risks was not the scope of the research, and nothing in the title of the article, the PR release from Purdue, or the paper's title, even remotely implies what you seem to think it does. If I say the shed is green, you think that means seafoam green, and you're profoundly disappointed to discover the shed is british racing green, the only person to blame is you. The purpose of the paper was to demonstrate that wax "melts", which many consider "safer" than aromatic candles, produce similar levels of the similar particles as scented candles. They studied the counts, compositions, and the formation process of the particles. In the abstract they state that their results show the need for more study of the effect of the particles on health. The point of the title and coverage in the news story is to give the layperson something they can relate to, not to be extremely accurate, pedantic, and understate things.
Twirrim 2y ago
I found that gap annoying, when they finally did address it it was such a hand wavey thing that doesn't actually say it's bad for you. We know particles are being produced, because smell doesn't come from nowhere, so in some regards the whole bit of research could be read as "thing that produces particles, produces particles. Surprise!"
MattSayar 2y ago
If it's studies you want with quantifiable impacts, I'd recommend you read (part of) this investigation (because it's so long)[0]. A couple of the top recommendations are to extinguish candles with a lid and to ban incense. [0] https://dynomight.net/air/ https://dynomight.net/air/

7thaccount 2y ago

Not much to add here other than as someone with terrible allergies and asthma, the constant need for plugin air fresheners, scented candles, scented laundry detergent, and scented lotions, perfumes, febreeze, and scented deodorant drives me crazy. I don't think normal folks realize how they're breathing in straight chemicals all day.

TylerE 2y ago
One of the reasons I still mask. An N95, while not perfect (an N100 with a carbon layer would be the real ticket), blocks a lot of the common scents. Things like those dangly air fresheners every ride share driver has about 5 of.
- schiffern 2y ago
  Sad how masking has become such a bugbear[1] that this eminently sensible and practical solution is somehow controversial. [1 ] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bugbear https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bugbear
- 7thaccount 2y ago
  You're right. Almost every Uber driver has one and I immediately worry about the sneezing, headaches, and wheezing.
laborcontract 2y ago
Chemical allergies are an area where I'm fine oversimplifying decisions and using a simple heuristic of "if my body says no, stay the heck away." Of our five senses, smell is the most well attuned for detecting something that'll hurt us internally (ie poison cancer).
MyOutfitIsVague 2y ago
I hate all that stuff too, but I have to nit-pick the last sentence. Everything you breathe is chemicals. Everything that is good for you and bad for you is chemicals. This in particular bothers me because I end up having this discussion with family members all the time who are convinced that "chemicals" are bad for you, and they only eat food without "chemicals".
- schiffern 2y ago
  Of course this is technically correct (almost a cliche really), but I think we all realize that "chemicals" in this context means "novel untested synthetic chemicals." That's a mouthful, so we use shorthand.
  - YurgenJurgensen 2y ago
    It’s not the end of the world, but it’s still bad. It’s the kind of woolly definition that lets charlatans get away with blatant lies in advertising.
    - schiffern 2y ago
      Let's not be overly dramatic. Charlatans are already lying, and they can easily switch verbiage. If you can suggest a pithy replacement terminology for "what we really mean" here, I'm sure we'll all adopt it whole-heartedly. Until then, people are going to use the same (easily deciphered) shorthand. Tilting at this particular windmill doesn't actually improve anything or protect anybody.
      - YurgenJurgensen 2y ago
        That’s the thing. The reason why there’s no concise term is because it’s not really a meaningful concept. Does hemlock contain chemicals? Is botulin a chemical? They’re both 100% natural. The colloquial sense is totally meaningless, so by insisting on the scientific definition, you’re stopping marketers from saying nothing while looking like they’re saying something. Also, ‘things are bad for other reasons’ isn’t an argument for trying to eliminate this particular reason.
14 2y ago
I am thankful my workplace has a no scent policy. Unfortunately I have to go into clients homes all day so sometimes run into heavily scented homes. If we report it our boss will inform the client they need to remove it or not use it prior to our visits or open a window. I am thankful that I am naturally not a smelly person (confirmed by girlfriends) and I shower with non scented soap and I don't ever wear deodorant. Sadly I have teens. They over spray perfumes and colognes to the point that I can't even be near them at times. I hope the unscented trend picks up and spreads to more places. Thinking about the topic of scents were you around when you could basically smoke anywhere? I remember the days walking in a mall smoking and people would just drop the smoke and step on it then walk away. Banning smoking from public places where I live was the greatest thing.
kstrauser 2y ago
Oh man. A previous employer had someone come around and spray for bugs monthly. I told them to let me know when it was going to be so I could stay away for an afternoon. The exterminator insisted it was perfectly safe and wouldn’t bother me. Yeah, well, immune stuff runs in the family — my older sister had lupus — and it did, in fact, bother me. As a test or something, he came around spraying without telling me. I was in my office when I felt my sinuses starting to swell and my chest started tightening. When I walked out into the common room and saw him smiling at me with a “see, told you it’s your imagination” grin, my coworkers had to drag me outside because I was ready to kill him. Look, man, I’d freaking love not to have asthma and other allergy stuff. I don’t like taking handfuls of antihistamines. I’m not trying to be a pain in the ass. I just don’t, like, enjoying dying.
- fredrikholm 2y ago
  There's few things that makes me dislike someone quicker than when they dismiss the suffering of others, or use their own circumstances to dismiss others inability to "just don't X". Look, man, shut up.
  - mcny 2y ago
    Or trivializes other people's work. Like when a lead developer or a manager wants to chime in and say the story point estimate is too much and it should be smaller. > Just do x, y, z Ok then you take the story. > Oh but I don't know frontend. But you know the estimate is wrong? I hate the word "just"
    - chriswarbo 2y ago
      > I hate the word "just" This is one of those things that someone pointed out to me, I agreed with them and have since tried to avoid saying "just do ...", "why not just ...", etc. However, that means I now really notice it from others. sigh
      - Thorrez 2y ago
anal_reactor 2y ago
I am the opposite. My nose has barely any sensitivity, so I love intense smells, because they actually make me smell something. Also, fuck the people who keep windows open 24/7 even during winter. They make everyone cold just because the air isn't perfectly fresh. At my previous job we had a guy who'd always come and instantly open the windows. I know that I'm the minority with my preference to keep them shut, so I just suffered in silence, except for these first 30 minutes before he showed up, those were a blessing. He lived outside of the city and commuted, and one time he really needed to sleep inside the city, and I had a spare bed, so I let him sleep at my place. He walked in and instantly said "Can we open the window?", to which I replied "NO, WE CANNOT". I cannot describe how satisfying that felt.
- aja12 2y ago
  Did you invite him on purpose?
ako 2y ago
I had a leaky air freshener attached to wall, it dripped on top of baseboard, the chemicals did a better job removing the paint on the baseboard that regular paint removers…
exe34 2y ago
same here. my downstairs neighbour burns garlic for every meal, and then burns some kind of incense to get rid of the smell of garlic. both of them somehow come up through the floor and make me retch, so I have to open the window - at which point she goes outside for a smoke and most of it seems to come in through that window. live among people, they said. it'll be nice, they said.
- anonym29 2y ago
  Obviously this is your own fault for accepting the social contract, you should've declined back when you had the chance! /s
  - exe34 2y ago
    I'm moving soon, and I'll defect by not mentioning it to prospective tenants when they visit. I'd like my deposit back.
    - anonym29 2y ago
      Joking aside, sorry you have to deal with this. I know how stressful nuisance neighbors can be. Best of luck on your upcoming move!
      - exe34 2y ago
        thanks! I'm overly sensitive, so I'm sure I'll find something to hate about the new place!
        anonym29 2y ago
        Hang in there. It took me 9 different units at 7 different properties in 3 different states to find the one that was just right for me, but it was out there - don't give up :)

KennyBlanken 2y ago

> The challenge with any article like this is that the correlated impact on health outcomes is always implied in the article but is rarely studied as part of the research cited. The scope of the research is determined by the researchers conducting the research, not what you think it should be, especially since you do not understand the basics of the scientific method - or that research is highly iterative and derivative. A great deal of research sets out only to establish whether it is worth pursuing further research on a particular hypothesis. > I really wish articles would limit big headlines like this unless the research cited was directly comparing mortality and health outcomes directly. That wasn't the scope of the research. > If the study this article was based on came to the conclusion that 'average household aerosol use has a similar associated mortality risk as average city car pollution' then the title could have been warranted but instead we got a bit of click-bait. Proving health risks was not the scope of the research, and nothing in the title of the article, the PR release from Purdue, or the paper's title, even remotely implies what you seem to think it does. If I say the shed is green, you think that means seafoam green, and you're profoundly disappointed to discover the shed is british racing green, the only person to blame is you. The purpose of the paper was to demonstrate that wax "melts", which many consider "safer" than aromatic candles, produce similar levels of the similar particles as scented candles. They studied the counts, compositions, and the formation process of the particles. In the abstract they state that their results show the need for more study of the effect of the particles on health. The point of the title and coverage in the news story is to give the layperson something they can relate to, not to be extremely accurate, pedantic, and understate things.

Twirrim 2y ago

I found that gap annoying, when they finally did address it it was such a hand wavey thing that doesn't actually say it's bad for you. We know particles are being produced, because smell doesn't come from nowhere, so in some regards the whole bit of research could be read as "thing that produces particles, produces particles. Surprise!"

MattSayar 2y ago

If it's studies you want with quantifiable impacts, I'd recommend you read (part of) this investigation (because it's so long)[0]. A couple of the top recommendations are to extinguish candles with a lid and to ban incense. [0] https://dynomight.net/air/ https://dynomight.net/air/